Amp Quest

[General Specific]

I'm just goint to put amp quest posts here and stop creating new posts about this.

Played a few amps today:

Vox 15 and 30 - Sounded great, but too clean for my taste. I'd love to have an AC30 but it won't work as an all around solution for me.

Fender Blues Jr. - I liked it. I didn't want to.

Mesa - F30 - I really like the heavy metal lead tones. The clean tone didn't sound right to me. This thing is billed as a 30 W amp, but it only has two EL84s.

I brought this up to my GC salesman and he tried to fake his way through it by saying something about tube amps being different. I said, "What?", and he mumbled about bass amp watts and tube amp watts. I ignored him and found the book for the amp and learned that Mesa incorporates the DYNAWATT to make this amp just like a 30W amp.

At $900, I don't want DYNAWATTS. I looked this up and the consensus of opinion is that the Dynawatt thing does make lead tones hotter or louder, but rhythm tones suffer.

Mesa F50 - This one's louder. It also has 6L6 tubes. I heard a lot of what I have with the HRDX out of this amp except for the cool yet weird heavy metal channel. I decided that I don't want 6L6' at this point and moved on.

So, I went back to my office and ordered an Epiphone Valve Standard from MF.

My reasons:

I want to try one and no one stocks them.
I want low wattage high gain, EL84 amp.
I like the sound and simplicity of the Valve Jr head and would like a louder version.
$299.00 Shipped
I read further reviews of the Epi Blues Custom 30 and didn't like what I read.
The Blues Custom comes with 6L6, NOT EL34 like MF says.

I considered a Epi So Cal 50/25 Head, but reviews steered me away.


If I don't like the Valve Standard, I may try a Blues Jr or maybe a THD Univalve.

In the meantime, I am getting a Crate Powerblock. My friend uses his for weekend gigs. One surprising thing about the Powerblock, the input section seems to work well with stomp boxes.

[curtisstetka]

Know ye of Dave Phillips on Union Blvd?

I'm pretty sure they've got an Epiphone Valve Standard in stock. I could be mistaken as to the exact model but I know I saw some sort of Epiphone tube amp there last week. Its cabinet looked big enough for two speakers but it only had a single 12. Sales guy (friendly, knowledgable bald guy Karl or possibly Carl) said its big cab contributed to a fuller sound from the single speaker. Perhaps. I didn't try it.

Anyway, you've already ordered it but if you were interested in trying it first, there it is.

[General Specific]

Know ye of Dave Phillips on Union Blvd?

I'm pretty sure they've got an Epiphone Valve Standard in stock. I could be mistaken as to the exact model but I know I saw some sort of Epiphone tube amp there last week. Its cabinet looked big enough for two speakers but it only had a single 12. Sales guy (friendly, knowledgable bald guy Karl or possibly Carl) said its big cab contributed to a fuller sound from the single speaker. Perhaps. I didn't try it.

Anyway, you've already ordered it but if you were interested in trying it first, there it is.

Aye! I be knowin of the Dave Philips. Maybe I'll call first.

[MMP]

Yeah? What are you looking for?

When you get tired of messing around with Chinese made junk then try one of these:

Peavey C-30 ( I found mine on eBay for $350, complete with footswitch and cover) I still own it. sounds similar to a HRDx if you scoop the mids. Has effects loop. On the down side, no standby switch.
.
Traynor YCV40 ($400 eBay) think DRRI with 2 chanels and more tone options. I own one. This is also a Guitar Player Magazine Editor's Pick Award winner. Two year transferable warranty even if you break it. Includes effects loop

Fender DRRI or a used SFDR (one trick pony, but it's a really great trick) Takes pedals really well. I like the MI Audio Crunch Box with mine.

Great reviews on all three amps. All three very usable and giggable

I might add that I own all three and have played in about any situation you can imagine, from studio to outdoor festivals. YMMV but short of boutique amp money, your dollars would be well spent on one of these. IMHO

[concert410]

I gig with a Mesa F-30 every weekend. I play 60's- 80's classic rock. I have never used the boost channel (or whatever it is called) but I like the clean channel and the overdrive channel a lot. I never have the gain more that 12:00 and most of the time it is closer to 10:30. The F-30 can be LOUD and sounds much fuller when used with an ext cab. I have a few amps but this is my "go to" rig.

[General Specific]

I gig with a Mesa F-30 every weekend. I play 60's- 80's classic rock. I have never used the boost channel (or whatever it is called) but I like the clean channel and the overdrive channel a lot. I never have the gain more that 12:00 and most of the time it is closer to 10:30. The F-30 can be LOUD and sounds much fuller when used with an ext cab. I have a few amps but this is my "go to" rig.

I guess I am just scared of buying nto "snake oil" like Dynawatt technology. I did like it though.


That quote from Slash about Strats (in your sig) is funny since you never see him playing one.

[FrankJohnson]

I'm just goint to put amp quest posts here and stop creating new posts about this.

Played a few amps today:


Fender Blues Jr. - I liked it. I didn't want to.

SU-Prise!


imagine that.......

[Mikey]

Why not see if you can find a used Reverend on ebay?
Either the Kingsnake or Hellhound will do. The Goblin may be a little underpowered for your needs.
At least check them out. I haven't ever heard a discouraging word about any of them.

[FrankJohnson]

Why not see if you can find a used Reverend on ebay?
Either the Kingsnake or Hellhound will do. The Goblin may be a little underpowered for your needs.
At least check them out. I haven't ever heard a discouraging word about any of them.

Those were great amps Mikey.....

That was exactly why I bought the Alltone 1250 fdor my Hot rod. It iwll be coming out when I sell the amp, and recycled into the Mesa Studio 22 that is coming, or into a Blues Jr. Later......

[General Specific]

I have a daring question:

What about a Marshall Valvestate?

I'm about to try one and here's my thinking:


I like the Marshall tone stack and preamp distortion.
I like the sound of my bootleg marshall preamp into the power amp of my Line6.
I am not opposed to hybrid amps. A friend has a Beringer hybrid that does good enough.
I would buy a Vox hybrid if it were not for the fact that they don't take boost pedals well.
I don't play out a lot, just some loose jams and the occasional guest spot at a local gig.
The price just might be right at $499


I would have bought the Mesa F-30 if it had been $500. For $900, I can't do it.

[NeoFauve]

If you liked the Pro Jr- imagine it with a larger, more solid cabinet, and a 12' speaker.

A Tonedog Pro Sr. upgrade.

[FrankJohnson]

If you liked the Pro Jr- imagine it with a larger, more solid cabinet, and a 12' speaker.

A Tonedog Pro Sr. upgrade.

They look sweet, but I have never heard one...I can only imagine it sounding sweet and saturated......

BTW - I think the General mentioned a Blues Jr, not a Pro, but you bring a nice amp and mod to the discussion

[dirtdog]

Yeah? What are you looking for?

When you get tired of messing around with Chinese made junk then try one of these:

Peavey C-30
.
Traynor YCV40

Fender DRRI

I might add that I own all three and have played in about any situation you can imagine, from studio to outdoor festivals. YMMV but short of boutique amp money, your dollars would be well spent on one of these. IMHO

Hey MMP - how would you describe the differences between the YCV40 and DRRI? I owned the YCV40WR (one with the Celestion Vintage 30) and am considering a DRRI to replace my HRDv.

DD

[MMP]

Marshall Valvestate.
I've had two of them.
VS30R- 30 watts , Accutronics Reverb
Mixed reviews on Harmony Central. I thought the sound of this was rather fizzy. Reverb was weak. I think this is because or the size resistor on the reverb input. And because of the super small tank located inside the chassis. The 12ax7 tube is located inside the chassis too. Sorriest cabinet work I've ever seen. Cab sides are connected at the top with plastic connectors much like the base frame for a waterbed.
Valvastate 2000 AVT50 - 50 watts, Accutronics Reverb
A little better cabinet. Larger pressed wood cab with better joints. Cab is sealed in the back. Not quite a fizzy as the 30w earlier version. Slightly larger reverb tank still located inside the chassis, as is the 12ax7 preamp tube. Amp uses a computer power cord. Be sure you have one is your gadget bag cause there is no storage in the back of the amp. Internal cooling fan can be annoyingly loud sometimes, but not on mine. Decent for rhythm parts but not very good at cutting through the mix. Neither amp takes pedals well at all.

My VS30R was sold off right before Christmas and my AVT50 has been sitting in the storage shed for over a year now. YMMV/IMHO

[Kap'n]

Blues Jr's have simply awful sounding reverb.

Find a used Traynor YGM-3 Guitar Mate.

Fezz, you gotta replace that Marsland speaker. I can see it poking through the grillecloth.

[NeoFauve]

BTW - I think the General mentioned a Blues Jr, not a Pro, but you bring a nice amp and mod to the discussion

Ooops.

[MMP]

DD, Why did you get rid of your YCV40wr?
YCV40 or YCV40WR vs DRRI.
Oh God, I love both of these for different reasons and for the same reason.
YCV40- Think DRRI w/channel switching. Separate tone controls or each channel. I got the fender chimey tones of the Deluxe Reverb with a little more control. Dirt channel is very usuable, but I never found the marshall sound that some say one can get in this amp. Then again, I just don't need that kind of distortion, so the dirt chanel works well for me too.

I liked the sound of the HRDx but read too many threads about "what's wrong with my HRDx?" to purchase one. I went with a DRRI. Great Fender chime and twang. Marshallesque tones with a MI Audio Crunchbox. Takes all pedals well. Great classic rock n roll amp. Don't think they are that much different. I can make them sound about the same. I still like my C30 for tone differences and think the C30 sounds closer to the HRDx than a DRRI. The C30 has EL84s in it and sounds a little more Marshall-like than the HotRod.

[dirtdog]

DD, Why did you get rid of your YCV40wr?
.

Well, two reasons - one was the volume and the depth that the 212 had over the 112 Traynor and, get this, for the Fender vibe (I know, how vain.... )

Now, I'm kind of regretting having the volume that I do but I don't think I'd go back to the YCV40 as the channel switching functionality is not really my cup of tea (having not used this feature in the HRDv for over year), so I've been considering a DRRI for the somewhat lower volume (comp. to the HRDv), earlier breakup, single channel, onboard vibrato and the Fender vibe (I know, how vain.... ). The only thing stopping me is potentially losing what I consider to be desireable low end that the 212 Deville provides - but I'm a bassist as well, so that could explain it.

I'm going to tinker with the tubeage in my Deville before going down the DRRI route, but there's my thinking in a nutshell.

I'm also playing in a different band now - when I had the Traynor, I was playing in a classic rock cover band with another guitarist (playing a Behringer combo) and I was going for the Marshally end of the tone spectrum and rarely used the clean channel. Sounded good in rehearsal but I had the fortune of recording my live tone on a couple of gigs and it sounded kinda thin and weak.

I'm now playing in a blues/rock outfit and competing with a Super Reverb reissue. The Traynor kinda sounded flat compared to that sweet amp! Using the same guitars as I did in the old band, I now have a thick, syrupy tone and stick to the clean channel with a couple of pedals out front to give it the grind. I would like just a bit more grind and bit less volume than I have right now.

haven't had any reliability issues with the Deville (knock on wood), so that's a nil factor at the moment.

DD

[MMP]

DD,
If I was you, I'd look for a used SFDR for not much more money than a DRRI. Or maybe a SFVR for a little more headroom and the two speaker config. (2x10) I am too old to be hauling a Super Reverb and I don't own a crane. :)

PS. I own a DRRI but am looking for a SFDR after tax season. I think I'll probably keep my traynor and definitely keep my C30

[Offshore Angler]

...I want low wattage high gain, EL84 amp.
...

I'd go try a PV C30. It's just what you described.

[General Specific]

I'd go try a PV C30. It's just what you described.

Guy I play with has a PV C30. It's very clean. More headroom than I want.

[MMP]

OSA recommended The C30 to me when I asked for an alternative to the HRDx. I can get plenty of dirt from it when I want it. I think it is precisely what you described in an earlier post. I'll sell you mine.......in 2 or maybe 300 years. :) I think they are awesome amps for not very much money. So there. Thanks OSA

[dirtdog]

DD,
If I was you, I'd look for a used SFDR for not more money than a DRRI. Or maybe a SFVR for a little more headroom and the two speaker config. (2x10) I am too old to be hauling a Super Reverb and I don't own a crane. :)

PS. I own a DRRI but am looking for a SFDR after tax season. I think I'll probably keep my traynor and definitely keep my C30

MMP - what would the SFDR do for that the DRRI wouldn't?

I dunno about a 2x10 config in a Fender - I had a Princeton Chorus once....

DD

[MMP]

DD,
A Silver face Deluxe Reverb would be hand wired as opposed to a PCB, therefore easier to mod and or repair plus it will only increase in value. the DRRI is a fine amp but will never be worth more than they are right now except as inflation drives the price up.

A 40 watt Silverface Vibrolux-Reverb 2x10 is also hand wired and is roughly twice the power of a Princeton Chorus. I had a Blackface Vibrolux Reverb and a '54 Strat. Both were stolen from my house circa 1989. Wish I still had both.

[Offshore Angler]

I still have a PC C30 that I use for practice. I don't want to mess with my effects just for practice so it's a great amp. I've never seen an amp before or since that will cover as much ground, save for a Rivera. It's not a true two channel amp. It switches an extra gain section in when you hit the button. If you notch the mids way down to 2 or 3, and push the bass up it will do the Fender blackflace sound pretty convincingly, and with the extra gain stage and the mids pushed it will do a darned good distorted sound. Keep the Boost button off at all times. It should have been labeled "Mud".

The high-gain side has a pre-and post control, so you can dail in the dirt you want and then set the volume, which is tremendously usefull for gigging. In other woords you can dial in the distortion you want, and then set the volume.

It can also be very AC30'ish when set up properly. All in all, a very neat little box, and it's almost as light as a Champ!

Really GS, I'd reccomend you give one a whirl. They are also extremely reliable.

[Wilko]

General specific is all over the map.

You keepo talking about not wanting a heavy metal sound, then you keep going back to "High gain el84" WTF?

You want tube sound at low volumes but thyen you keep looking at 30 or even 50 watt amps.

That's not how it's done.

AC15 too clean? you aren't playing it right. It's got a f*cking master volume, it's only around 15 watts. It'll get nice and gritty at good house party volumes.

But then if you a playing fender guitars I don't think you're going to get what you keep posting about from EL84s.

I swear, the Deluxe Reverb is all you will ever need in your lifetime---once you learn how to play it.

[dirtdog]

The Brown Vibroverb, Tweed Super, Brown Super, Brown and BF Tremolux, and the BF and SF Vibrolux are all 2x10 amps, and are some of the best sounding Fenders ever made.

glad someone got my sarcasm....

I went down to the local guitar vampire, I mean musical consignment shop, and test drove an SF Vibrolux Reverb. Pretty nice amp - definitely in the ball park of what I'm looking for, but this particular one was beat to sh!t and they were asking $1400. So I picked up a pair of JJ 6V6s for my HRDv and felt better for that....



DD

[Wilko]

those are great amps... I think there's one here in my office:

[rudutch]

those are great amps... I think there's one here in my office:

and I though I had too much gear...

[pc]

...and I thought I had enough. Judging from the gear-woody I just got looking at Wilko's "office," perhaps I don't have nearly enough.

[General Specific]

General specific is all over the map.

You keepo talking about not wanting a heavy metal sound, then you keep going back to "High gain el84" WTF?

You want tube sound at low volumes but thyen you keep looking at 30 or even 50 watt amps.

That's not how it's done.

AC15 too clean? you aren't playing it right. It's got a f*cking master volume, it's only around 15 watts. It'll get nice and gritty at good house party volumes.

But then if you a playing fender guitars I don't think you're going to get what you keep posting about from EL84s.

I swear, the Deluxe Reverb is all you will ever need in your lifetime---once you learn how to play it.

You're right. Remember, and I've said it before, I am really am an amp noob. I'm admittedly all over the map, and likely completely wrong in how I explain things. I don't have the budget to buy all the amps and try them over time, so I'm scrambling to learn more about the various flavors and try as many out as possible.

I have been haunting every guitar store in a 50 mile radius and reading amps reviews until my eyes bleed. I've shared all of my thoughts here for your consideration, or maybe amusement. Laugh with me, laugh at me, I don't care.

In the end, no one can tell me what will work, but many of you have been helpful.

I don't know much about tubes, but I can tell you, wherever I play:

I like early breakup.
I like chords to be driven but musical, not mushed together.
I like to have available compression and sustain for solos.
A 100w fender twin is the opposite of what I need (at least I think...)
I play with a few bands. My HRDX had early breakup, and I was able to push it to sweet breakup at gigs.


When the HRDX was ON, I could coax great tone out of it. The problem is, the reliability sucks, and the tone and response of the amp is different from day to day. I was just playing the HRDX, if I had a gig tonight it would totally work for me. Tomorrow, it will probably emit a 100Db screech.

For now, here's where I'm at:

I will wait for the Epiphone Valve Standard (15 W) to arrive (backordered until the end of Jan). After playing that I will either keep it or get a Blues Jr. This will be my small gig, mic to PA, amp.

I will either repair or gut the HRDX. After playing it tonight, repair might still be an option. (Better the devil you know).

I may finally get a Vox AD50VT for informal jams. I can't justify the full VTX.

Not all that complicated.

[Wilko]

Actually it's not rocket science. I'm trying to help, really.

There is a reason the Deluxe Reverb has become the most used/copied amp of all time.

You admit to being an amp noob, yet discount or worse the suggestions given to you. The Deluxe Reverb breaks up earlier than a HRDX. How do I know that? simple physics/electronics and experience.

I've got a pile of amps right in this room with me right now. There is a reason the HRDX isn't one of them. I also know, and simple physical facts tell me what each of these amps will or won't do.
That's not opinion, it's a fact.

Whether you understand those facts is what dictates where your tone quest will take you. Many never get a grasp of the tone chain and how each part interacts. But just like most people, they don't know until they do it themselves and no amount of teaching will help them.

I guess some the most important parts of the equation haven't been addressed. Like how do you pick? Do you play a light and wimpy or do you dig in and play with some feeling? Then, how loud is you guitar? Will you always be driving your amp with some pedals likely adding voltage before it even hits your amp?

All of these factors will effect at what point "breakup" uccurs. I like to call this the threshold. Thsi point can be set almost wherevver you you want it no matter what amp you use. There is a natural threshold directly tied to the amp and the guitar, and then there is all the ways in between that you can simulate that threshold using pedals or a master volume. IMNSHO, the best way to acheive a great tone is the natural method.
To do that you need to find the right amp. Being an amp noob will mean that you likely don't how to select an amp, so you've come here asking questions and playing some amps around your area. do you knwo someone who "gets it" and can help you in person? I believe someone needs to watch you play, and play your guitar into these amps and show you how it's done and what the difference is. Until that happens you'll always be a noob and never move forward.

[dirtdog]

those are great amps... I think there's one here in my office:

OI!! Can I come over an A/B a couple of those for a few days???

DD

[MMP]

+1 for everything Wilko just said.
GS, you have been given several great suggestions for different amps. There is a reason the same four or five amps keep appearing in thread after thread about "help me find my perfect amp". It's because many of the players here have and use these amps to gig/record. We understand where you are at, but you have to understand that we are all trying to help, not compete or confuse you with our various recommendations. We need some feedback though. Did you try some of the suggestions? not just listen to what someone else played through a particular amp? Let us know what you think when someone suggests an amp. ok? ok :)

[General Specific]

Actually it's not rocket science. I'm trying to help, really.

There is a reason the Deluxe Reverb has become the most used/copied amp of all time.

You admit to being an amp noob, yet discount or worse the suggestions given to you. The Deluxe Reverb breaks up earlier than a HRDX. How do I know that? simple physics/electronics and experience.

I never discounted any suggestions. It was the one who thought the DRRI would break up earlier than the HRD. Someone else said it wouldn't.

If you're pissed that I said that the AC15 didn't break up, well I'm sorry, the one I tried didn't. Perhaps it was broken. Perhaps, I'm an idiot. Seems like that's what you want to hear.

Maybe my posts are naive, but this is the only way I know to bounce things off people and gain insight. And I HAVE learned here, and from you. Perhaps I didn't respond glowingly to your posts. That didn't mean I didn't appreciate them.

Finally, I think my posts have been on topic. If not, what do you want to talk about?

[General Specific]

+1 for everything Wilko just said.
GS, you have been given several great suggestions for different amps. There is a reason the same four or five amps keep appearing in thread after thread about "help me find my perfect amp". It's because many of the players here have and use these amps to gig/record. We understand where you are at, but you have to understand that we are all trying to help, not compete or confuse you with our various recommendations. We need some feedback though. Did you try some of the suggestions? not just listen to what someone else played through a particular amp? Let us know what you think when someone suggests an amp. ok? ok :)

I have been playing these amps. The Peavey C30 I've played had a lot of headroom and was loud. I played a Peavey Delta Blues and liked it a lot. I'd like to try one with the 2x10 instead of the 1x15.

I havn't seen any Traynor's yet.

I was going to play a DRRI today, but I spent the day with my son building his pinewood derby car.

If the DRRI gave me whatever good I got out of my HRDX, but with earlier breakup, better articulation, less flabbiness...then that would be great. Unfortunately the HRDX was my first Fender and I am understandably gun shy. You would be to.

I know my posts have been all over the place, but no one I know understands amps like the folks on this board. My various posts have been out of respect for all of you and have been part of my learning process.

Didn't mean to make a pest of myself...

Thanks for all the replies. I will continue to play amps and, if you're interested, will post my progress.

[General Specific]

. do you knwo someone who "gets it" and can help you in person?

Most experienced gigging musicians I know don't put as much thought into their sound. It's just part of my makeup to focus on things.

[MMP]

GS, you are not a pest. We really are trying to help. You just listed the three amps I recommend, but they aren't by any means the only good amps out there. The last Vox amp I played through was a '65 Super Beatle. I did not love it. Many players here like Vox amps. You can too. It's just that I have three good amps that I can play well with my R8 Les Paul or any of my Strats. I don't need to search for more as I know what works for me. It really boils down to whether you like the sound/tone you get from an amp. If you really like one, then buy it.

[Wilko]

I ain't pissed. just talkin' at you like we were hangin' out in a bar.

I think it's called "bustin' your balls" and I'm pretty lame about using smilies.

I hear ya about most musicians not putting that much thought into it.

I'm like you. I overanalyze a lot of stuff.

One day a big lightbulb will go off in your head and all my rambling will make sense.

[Rickenjangle]

The Brown Vibroverb, Tweed Super, Brown Super, Brown and BF Tremolux, and the BF and SF Vibrolux are all 2x10 amps, and are some of the best sounding Fenders ever made.

Ahhh, the Tremolux. Damn, but I still wish I'd kept mine...

You can't even compare the Princeton Chorus to these others that Fezz mentions. It wasn't the speakers, it was the amp itself. I liked it, back in the day, before I became a tubehound...