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Thread: Custom Fender builders?

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    Custom Fender builders?

    Recently discovered Nash guitars and I'm very impressed by the way they play and sound. Some relics are a bit over the top but the bottom line is they sound better than most CS strats I've played!

    It's interesting to see how this market is expanding and the quality rise above the regular strats and teles Fender seem to have put out for a while now. Who else are making great Fender knock offs?

    Pleas list any other you know about!

    Nash
    K-Line
    Linhof
    ????

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    Re: Custom Fender builders?

    I have a couple of Strats made by John Elliott of Bravewood Guitars.... check out bravewoodguitars.co.uk He makes amazing guitars and like you I have to agree that he blow's away most of the currecnt Fender stuff (including the masterbuilt)!! Now I know that is a bols statement but you can never tell how good a thing is by the website alone...you need to hold and feel and play and hear....I have and I and many others agree....! You need to check this guy's stuff out! Have fun!

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    Re: Custom Fender builders?

    All the Nash guitars I've ever seen (& I've seen a few) look cool from a distance but upon closer inspection had finish & accuracy issues: Orange peel, BIG sags in the lacquer, body radii, body contours, headstock/fingerboard curvature, all off. No amount of "aging" can cover that stuff up.
    Every single one had a Fender decal on it, too. What's up w/that? How does he deal w/the legal aspect of that?

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    Forum Member Marcondo's Avatar
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    Re: Custom Fender builders?

    Nash got shut down by Fender when they started that big sweep of guys making Fender clones. He did resurface somehow I dont know I think he suipplies the decal and the people put it on themselves that way he doesnt actually sell the guitar with the Fender decal on it.

    I would never buy a Nash his workmanship is a joke as compared to a real builder like Lentz. Nash is just a guitar assembler he buys pre cut bodies and necks paints em bolts them together.

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    Re: Custom Fender builders?

    Apparently Nash avoids legal problems by using offically licensed parts from Warmoth and the like.

    Personally I'd rather try building one myself if going down that route.

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    Re: Custom Fender builders?

    my Nash strat is by far the best of all strats i have had, or played! The resonance is amazing and you feel it becomes part of you as soon as you pick it up. I didnt get it for the relic but i dont mind it tho. Very realistic sunburst, but he doesnt make non relics anyway!

    Apparently he goes and hand picks the parts he wants from supplier so there is consistency in the wood. No bad ones.
    And even tho you can do it yourself, it's not a guarantee it will come out great.
    Mine has the decal but not sure when it was applied. The reason i think that makes sense is that it looks so naked if there is none at all. And since its made to vintage fender specs sort of, i see no wrong with the decal. We all love those! I'm not telling people its a fender so its all good, looks right!

    Tried a Lentz strat as well and cant say i was blown away. Not better than my Nash IMO, didnt have the Strat vibe i love. And the price difference is huge....2 Nash for one Lentz w/ money left for a six pack!


    Quote Originally Posted by Marcondo View Post
    Nash got shut down by Fender when they started that big sweep of guys making Fender clones. He did resurface somehow I dont know I think he suipplies the decal and the people put it on themselves that way he doesnt actually sell the guitar with the Fender decal on it.

    I would never buy a Nash his workmanship is a joke as compared to a real builder like Lentz. Nash is just a guitar assembler he buys pre cut bodies and necks paints em bolts them together.

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    Re: Custom Fender builders?

    Quote Originally Posted by kayef View Post
    my Nash strat is by far the best of all strats i have had, or played!
    I recommend you play more guitars.

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    Re: Custom Fender builders?

    Quote Originally Posted by 71818 View Post
    I recommend you play more guitars.
    I have played plenty in my life. I found a great one and i'm glad to take a break from "finding" another one. Time to enjoy this one for a while. It's not always in the name, great guitars can come from different places. Are you saying that only Fender can make a great strat?

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    Forum Member Marcondo's Avatar
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    Re: Custom Fender builders?

    Allparts and Warmoth same parts anyone can bolt together and make a Tele or Strat easy. Sone sound great others dont like all guitars.

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    Re: Custom Fender builders?

    Quote Originally Posted by kayef View Post
    Are you saying that only Fender can make a great strat?
    Not at all. In fact, I know that I can make a great Strat. I just know that THIS ain't a great Strat:

    Check out the big sag in the yellow circle. Not to mention the fact that the rest of the body is covered w/orange peel. That is a Nash "Strat". I wouldn't have the balls to sell a paintjob like that. And check out the 3-ply trem cover- real authentic, that is! lol
    But hey, if YOU like it, that's cool! Just don't tell me his guitars blow away the Fender CS stuff.
    Last edited by Cogs; 11-23-2006 at 12:36 AM.

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    Re: Custom Fender builders?

    Quote Originally Posted by 71818 View Post
    Just don't tell me his guitars blow away the Fender CS stuff.
    Have you played it? I can't speak for that one as I've never played it. I'm not an expert on relic jobs but I could easily have been fooled when it comes to my Nash but that is still secondary. The primary reason I love it is the fact it's a great guitar that plays and sounds excellent! Who cares if it's a 1 or 3 ply pickguard? And maybe the owner changed that one anyway, mine has 1 plys.

    I tried every CS (5) they had in the store recently and none had a vibe worth the money. I have to say the best strat I've ever played tho was a CS 69 closet classic, black w/ maple neck CBS headstock. It was unbelievable and I still dream about it. I had no means to finance it at the time and I went back to play it several times. But that was the only one and I never found another one even close to it. Found one on ebay a while back but w/o playing it first it's too risky for the price tag!

    What is the orange peel thing btw?
    Last edited by kayef; 11-23-2006 at 04:59 AM.

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    Re: Custom Fender builders?

    There are boutique builders who can build a better playing, better sounding, super high quality Strat.

    DeTemple, Lentz, Suhr, Sadowsky are the first ones that come to mind, although they are not exactly Strat "clones" (well, maybe the Lentz is).

    What's important though is that their common denominator is that the actually BUILD their guitars, as in cutting, shaping, finishing etc., hence the finished product is a result of their ability.

    Nash simply buy pre-cut bodies and necks from well known suppliers that sell retail to anyone. I very much doubt he actually "hand picks" what he buys, either.

    So, the amazing resonance, tone or whatever you find in a Nash guitar is actually a praise to Warmoth, Allparts, USACG etc., nothing more.
    Come to think about it, if you could commission a full guitar build from Warmoth itself, the quality would be even higher...

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    Re: Custom Fender builders?

    When I was on a Strat-quest early this year I wound up playing several custom-builder Strats at a guitar show here in town. I did get to play one Lentz, an older one from when he (and so many others) were still building lookalike guitars, and the Lentz was frickin' unbelievable. I also played a Suhr and felt it was really nice--a better feel than the CS Fender stuff, but I'm not sure the tone was any nicer or different.

    There were two Nash Strats (it was NOT a Nash booth, so I assume these were being resold from the original owners) that I got to play, although I only got to play one of the two plugged into an amp. They were both craptacular. I couldn't believe they were priced what they were. Amateur at best. If he had "hand-selected" the woods to go together, he doesn't have a clue what that even means.

    But, if you like yours, then I don't imagine you need validation from anyone else. I don't mean to diss him personally, because I'm sure he enjoys what he does, I'm just underwhelmed by the work of his that I've seen. To address your original point, I personally don't think there's anything about a Nash guitar that rises above a Fender. Anderson, Suhr and especially Lentz... that's a different story.

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    Re: Custom Fender builders?

    Quote Originally Posted by kayef View Post
    What is the orange peel thing btw?
    "Orange peel" is when the finish surface has a bumpy texture to it. In the picture above you can see it clearly in the areas that are reflecting light. It can result from several things:
    1. Cheap thinner or not enough thinner
    2. Spraying from too far away (in this case the lacquer accually dries before it hits the surface to be painted)
    3. Spraying too close & the pressure causes the wet lacquer to ripple
    4. Air pressure too high
    5. Air pressure too low
    I've been finishing & refinishing guitars for years using the simplest tools & learning correct technique the hard way. I'd say that the problems w/the paint job on the above strat resulted in putting the lacquer on too thick & too fast; a rush job, basically.

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    Re: Custom Fender builders?

    "I can build a Strat or Tele as good, if not better, than Nash."
    I think you nailed too...Fezz P

    I've been building Fender Clones for close to 10 years now. From my perspective; I started doing it because I just couldn't get the quality/type of Strat that I was looking for. There was always 'one hitch' that got in the way of it from being 'the perfect piece'. Be it: wrong frets, not the right neck shape, weight, color, pickups....well, you get the picture. I've had a few CS through the years. They were nice, but they were never 100% what I wanted my dream Strat to be like, especially for the price!

    I then met a Blues player that's been playing professionally for 40 or so years. He's probably done-up 5 or 6 hundred of these Partocasters through the years, selling each & every one of them off as he tires of them. From him, I got into doing it the way players wanted their guitars to be, but not on a large scale. Your guitar is a personal thing. That is, the things that one looks for in his instrument are important. For me, it's a decent paint job, big frets, flatter fretboard radius, light weight, & have good pickups. Different things for different players.

    Scott L has finished some bodies for me. Yes, he's good...he's real good! I've been a professional painter for 35 years myself, so I know the difference between a good paint and a mediocre one. I have used other finishers as well that use Poly & they do a superb job as well. I'll be darned if I can discern and difference between it & nitro...soundwise. As long as it's put on thin, I think your good to go, although Nitro is better for relicing & repairing.

    There's a lot people putting these things together now, and making a living out of it. You don't need to be a genius to do it, just some basic skills. I think a lot of it is 'gimmick' w/ those doing it on a large scale. That is, marketing their product. Have any of you tried a Titanium block for you trem, or a Callaham products for that matter? They do work & do improve the way your guitar plays & sounds. To get a killer sounding Strat/Tele, I do believe it's a sum of all the parts, and most of all...you've got to have the paws to bring it all out in your guitar. Not to negate all I have said, but Hendrix, SRV, or even EC just played the hell out of their guitars...right!

    I will say that: if one goes this route, and springs for quality parts, a great paint job. and puts it together w/ attention to detail, you will get a great custom guitar, that in the end, might cost you as much, if not more, than a Custom Shop piece from Fender. It will also most likely, not have the same resale value that a Fender will have. Don't ask me how I know this!

    I see that Wildwood has done a series of custom run Strats & Teles. They're probably superb guitars, but they also come w/ a hefty price tag...like $3500. For that price, you could piece together one heck of a guitar!
    Sorry for Ramblin'...Have a great Thanksgiving!

    RB
    Last edited by RnBGuitars; 11-23-2006 at 09:00 PM.

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    Re: Custom Fender builders?

    http://vintageandrareguitars.com/ind...roduct_id=3058


    Yeesh, for a Warmoth witha Bigsby and half a paintjob... I mean that's like 4x the value of the parts!

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    Re: Custom Fender builders?

    The "relic" job on that Tele neck is exactly the stuff I'm talking about. I've NEVER seen an old Fender neck w/that kind of wear on it. The bright yellow line between the bare wood & the finish is some kind of sealer that modern manufacturers put on their necks. It didn't exist on old pre-CBS nitro finished Fenders. Ir the point of a replica is to replicate, then doesn't that (& the addition of a 3-ply trem cover) kind of defeat the purpose?
    They all just look amateurish to me.

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    Re: Custom Fender builders?

    I have to agree with 71818. I purchased a body from Nash a couple of years ago when he was still selling them individually. I paid $400 plus $30 Shipping. The reason I didn't buy the body and finish it myself is because I had never made a serious attempt to do a three tone sunburst. I specified a USACG body which I am sure he used, but the grain matching was very poor on the two piece body. I believe the USACG web site boasted of their excellent grain matching at the time.

    When I unpacked the body my heart sunk when I saw how poor the paint job was. It had runs much like the picture above in several places, the checking didn't look natural, there was a lot of overspray, and bad swirling scratches from the sanding/relicing. Without really thinking I began to polish the body to remove the scratches and overspray. It didn't take much to start removing the brown paint of the burst. I spent some time on it, but there is still overspray. I don't know if you would really classify some of it as overspray since they are fairly large drops of paint. After the initial shock I thought maybe I should return it, but I wasn't going to pay shipping and the $45 restocking fee for parts. That would have been too expensive of a lesson.

    I can see why he doesn’t do new finishes. I don’t think he is capable of doing a new finish with no blemishes. The plus side is the body seems to be resonant and when I put everything together I am pleased with the guitar’s tone. I do think that $430 for a poorly painted body is a rip off. I guess people get excited over his guitars because they are cheaper than Custom Shop guitars, but they are just parts guitars that he assembles and anybody can do that.

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    Forum Member Mikey's Avatar
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    Re: Custom Fender builders?

    You may want to check into Rice Custom Guitars. Vey nice stuff without a HUGE pricetag and these folks know guitars and how to do them.
    If, at first you don't succeed, don't try skydiving.
    Two leaps per chasm is fatal!

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    Re: Custom Fender builders?

    How about Crook Customs? They sure seem nice, but i have never tried one...

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    Re: Custom Fender builders?

    Quote Originally Posted by MattR View Post
    I specified a USACG body which I am sure he used, but the grain matching was very poor on the two piece body. I believe the USACG web site boasted of their excellent grain matching at the time.
    I'd bet money that he went to USACG & got a body from their reject pile; Tommy & Co. have pretty high QC & will NOT just let that stuff out the door. He does, however, have a box of bargain pieces in the front office. I've picked through a pile of necks in there & even that was good stuff w/only cosmetic flaws. If something is bad he just doesn't sell it, period.

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    Re: Custom Fender builders?

    Quote Originally Posted by 71818 View Post
    I'd bet money that he went to USACG & got a body from their reject pile; Tommy & Co. have pretty high QC & will NOT just let that stuff out the door. He does, however, have a box of bargain pieces in the front office.

    Thats good to know. I am getting ready to buy another body and was not considereing USACG because of the body from Nash. I may give them another try now.

  23. #23
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    Re: Custom Fender builders?

    Quote Originally Posted by MattR View Post
    Thats good to know. I am getting ready to buy another body and was not considereing USACG because of the body from Nash. I may give them another try now.
    USACG are my very favorite bodies to use when I build stuff.

    You can save money with them if you tell them you want a "paint grade" body. The workmanship is still great, but they may not work on grain matching as much, or it may be an ugly piece of wood, but it wouldn't matter if you were going to paint the guitar a solid color. Perhapse the body you ended up with was supposed to be a "paint grade" rather than one that has a translucent type finish on it.
    It's all about Tone!!

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    Re: Custom Fender builders?

    I am sure many here will disagree, but I think if you don't care too much about the paint job details of your guitar, you can piece together a great sounding and great playing partsocaster for a fraction of the cost of a CS Fender or Lentz. To me, the real added value of their more expensive S- and T-type guitars is all in the feel and look of their finish (whether relic'd or not). I think many don't appreciate how hard it is to get a top quality lacquer finish.

    Bombs away...

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    Re: Custom Fender builders?

    Steve Benford - www.benfordguitars.com builds guitars using bodies including Strat and Tele bodies. They are not exactly clones (different headstock shape and no Fender logo, of course), but they are very well built guitars and almost any option imaginable is possible.

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    Re: Custom Fender builders?

    Quote Originally Posted by tterp View Post
    How about Crook Customs? They sure seem nice, but i have never tried one...
    I had a Crook body. I've never played one of his complete guitars, but the Paisley finish was cool. Never hardened all the way though...I'm not sure what he's painting with and calling nitro.


    I also had a GVCG neck that played and sounded excellent. The dye used on the fretboard and dots wore off from playing, and the dirt under the finish was not very authentic. Guitars usually don't get dirt on them before the paint goes on.


    Zaganin guitars are also very nice. I think my dad has the only one in the USA. More of a departure from the Fender formula than many, they are very well-built. It took some experimentation to get the pickups/electronics/setup right, but it is a very unique guitar.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    You may want to check into Rice Custom Guitars. Vey nice stuff without a HUGE pricetag and these folks know guitars and how to do them.
    Thanks! My guitar of choice.

    "All music turns out to be ethnic music." --Steve Reich

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    Re: Custom Fender builders?

    No mention of Ed Roman? I've never played one, but he's the only person I've been able to find that will make the custom neck I want - macassar ebony with ebony fretboard.

    Macassar ebony isn't the most readily-available choice of neck :\.



    If anyone's played one, I'd love to hear from you. Because I'd love to order a custom neck from him.

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    Re: Custom Fender builders?

    . I can't speak for other builders but my guitars have more going on besides professional finish work. I've refinished and restored hundreds of Vintage Strats and Teles for over 30 years! I've learned about guitars and building from this body of work. The advice I would give someone looking for an inexpensive guitar is to by a Fender off ebay!

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    Re: Custom Fender builders?

    lazarus thread


    "Oh, Mister D.J.,
    I keep wondering why you don't play much blues anymore
    I don't know what you got against me
    Whatever it is, I sure would like to know"

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    Re: Custom Fender builders?


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