That clip of Larry Carlton is the whole thing, the entire ball of wax: the sound of the guitar, the licks, the ease and phrasing, the joy... man. Dang.
I thought you would like that GJ...... 8-)
LB.
That clip of Larry Carlton is the whole thing, the entire ball of wax: the sound of the guitar, the licks, the ease and phrasing, the joy... man. Dang.
I thought you would like that GJ...... 8-)
LB.
It's not a really processed sound he's using, but it's so far removed from Buddy Holly, (or even Stevie Clapner-Knopfdrix) it makes you wonder, "How can a Strat sound SO damn different?"
"Well, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."
Elvis Costello
That's a great clip of Carlton.
I'm not 100% sure about this - but I believe that "Strat" is a Valley Arts guitar made just for Larry. Not that it matters, Larry smokes on anything.Carlton's playing a Strat on the cover of his 1986 live album, Last Nite. I guess it's unlikely he played it on every song, but it's further evidence of Larry playing a Strat in the wild.
The one in the video is a 60's Fender though.
"Well, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."
Elvis Costello
Rory Gallagher..
There's a guy named Michael Blake here in Austin, used to do guitars and vocals for a band called Gideon's Press. Kind of a Christian prog-rock band. They changed their name to The Illustrated Band a while back and have been largely inactive since their old drummer quit.
But man, he gets probably the best strat tone I've ever heard outside of Eric Johnson. It's the only Strat tone I've heard that sounds perfect for all types of rhythm and leads.
You can check out their video for "Rain Down" here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7rjYip9ORE
I'll second that emotion....Rory Gallagher.
LB (if I HAD to pick only one anyway)
Originally Posted by LoveBandit
LB
Yup The man played with great fealing...
That is why we write about them so much here........they are the most flexible guitars in the world! Larry knows it too, he plays the second most flexible guitar in the world also.......the Gibson 335.
As far as electrics go, that is all I play now - Strats in different flavors and my 335. Full stop. Ned nothing else....
Well maybe a new Tele. Or a nice Les Paul Historic. Or a Baker. Or a Don Grosh.....
Ahhh, forget it. I think what I have will do for now!
"Sorry" - John Belushi as he smashed a guitar in Animal House
Tru dat. Larry the C playing a Strat sounds just like him playing anything. Oh sure, it's got a bit more of that Strat "throatiness" in the low end, but that's about it... what it mostly sounds like is an electric guitar being played by Larry Carlton. I dare say that if most listeners - guitar players even - were played just the audio from that clip, they would place it as a 335.You know how.
Here's another thing about that clip: check out the bass player. Big, fat, round tone, very simple part, dead in the pocket, no fireworks, just pure groove. I can't do it like that, but when I play bass, that's exactly what I'm going for. That whole band kills.
If you didn't have a general knowledge of LC and you saw the clip, you'd think the song was missnamed.
Maybe he'd gone through 334 other Strats before he found THE ONE.
What year is that video from?
There are moments where he does little chunka groove bits that sound a lot like stuff he did on "The New Frontier."
"Well, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."
Elvis Costello
So putting this all together, where does this leave us? That the guy with the best Strat tone is the guy who can make it sound like a 335? Hmmm...
Then. Why. Not. Just...
-Mark
The point is that he sounds like himself, regardless of what his guitar looks like.So putting this all together, where does this leave us? That the guy with the best Strat tone is the guy who can make it sound like a 335? Hmmm...
Then. Why. Not. Just...
-Mark
Maybe by chasing the sound of certain pieces of gear we could be missing something less shopping related.
"Well, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."
Elvis Costello
As Walter Becker said, "Do you want to be known as a guitar owner or a guitar player?"
There are players who really exploit the textbook Strattiness of a Strat (or any make/model of guitar), and they've maybe found their electric voice in that.
But that LC clip dispells any notion that the instrument will dictate the sound the player makes.
And at least for the length of that tune you could almost forget that there is such a thing as "Strat tone."
There obviously is, but there's more.
"Well, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."
Elvis Costello
Again, it's semantics, but I still have to disagree with this as much as I agree with it. (Well, the first sentence. The second sentece is pure gold.)
What definition do we use for "sound?"
1) To paraphrase Gravity Jim above, "that cilip is the whole ball of wax." Larry's touch, feel, technical fretboard knowledge, and the guitar, overdrive box and amp. Anyone who is familiar with his work knows instantly it's Larry Carlton--and "joy" is a great word to describe overall vibe. Yes... I agree... Larry always "sounds" like Larry.
2) "Sound" = "timbre," an audio picture. Then no, I disagree wholeheartedly.
Folks, there is a second clip of Larry playing "Room 335" in the column right next to the video of the Strat version (Larry Carlton & Lee Ritenour, 1995). Play it. For God's sake, they sound nothing alike.
It's still Larry, it's still freakin' amazing (IMO) and I'd still give my right cahone to play like that. But the timbre of the guitars between those two clips is completely and wholly different. Anyone familiar with the two instruments could tell you in a heartbeat that one is a 335 and one is at least some kind of single coil guitar.
In this example I happen to love the sounds--the "tone"--he's getting out of both guitars/rigs in the two clips, but they are noticeably dissimilar.
I will preach all day that it's the player who makes the player's sound, and gear is about what you like. Chasing gear to play better is pointless. However, all guitars do NOT sound alike in the same hands. They can all sound damn good in one set of hands, and the performance can make you care less what the guitar is, but it does sound different.
There is, go figure, a reason we keep wandering back to the guitar shops.
Heh. I actually watched that Carlton Strat clip and thought "Wow, it sounds just like Carlton playing Room 335, but you can sure hear that Strat sound."
"I haven't slept for ten days...because that would be too long." -- Mitch Hedberg
Yeah, it is semantics.
I don't think we're disagreeing at all.
I could have been more thorough in describing my reaction.
There are timbral properties that differ for sure.
But the musicality, the thing he's doing that excites a music lover- I don't really think the word tone does it justice.
That's old news. A bunch of us have come to that conclusion by now.
On the surface, music is something we hear. But there's more to the special stuff that moves us to want to listen intently and then want to play.
The "joy" factor Jim mentions is really what's great about hearing Larry Carlton.
"Well, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."
Elvis Costello
Well, that explains it. I don't hear a Strat or a 335 or a Danelctro or a Rick. I just hear a guitar. I can't tell the difference between Larry's 335 on the Steely Dan records and this Stratocaster... I just listen to what he's playing.
I guess that's why I only own two guitars. I couldn't tell the difference between my Strat and my Tele when I played them, so I sold the Tele.
I can hear the difference between the Strat and the Soapy, though. The Soapy is a lot louder.
It's worth noting that Larry did call the tune, "Room 335,"
and that he and Lee sound totally different playing them.
So there's nothing wrong with feeilng an attachment to a particular kind of guitar, and being inspired and enabled by it.
That's how it oughta be.
Hell, I have a pencil that I really like.(one on top)
[Kids, if you want to doodle and scribble like me, I'd say get one.
But I think the pearwood model is out of production. Like the Les Paul, it didn't initially catch on, I guess.]
"Well, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."
Elvis Costello
Fucking right on fezz!!!!!!!!!!!!Different gear changes things slightly. At least in my experience. The biggest change happens when someone else puts their hands on your gear. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. The other thing I'll stick to is this: Learn how to fucking play. Then taste test different gear. So many people are trying to purchase a sound, rather than trying to figure out how to get it. How do I sound like SRV? Fuck SRV. Play the guitar, find your voice, find the music inside you. Screw everyone else, and everyone who is trying to sell you something...
This will tell you more about playing and tone than anything I can think of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roY9SaqM0mo
"Don't concentrate on the finger, or you will miss all the heavenly glory"
ones too many and a hundred is not enough!
That Bruce Lee clip is great.
"I haven't slept for ten days...because that would be too long." -- Mitch Hedberg
Ya in the Zone man! I can understand people playing fav. songs and such its been going on since music was created. But the IMO point of playing any instrument is to be creative to do your own thing.Yeah, I'm in a mood.
ones too many and a hundred is not enough!
Right--and I didn't mean I disagreed with you Neo, you were just summarizing many of the sentiments before you.
I think all the people in the the know in this thread agree that music is the goal; tone is one tiny element.
However, sometimes I feel like there's an pressing interest here to go too far and say, "The player makes the tone," ergo, all guitars sound the same in the same hands. Ergo, if you know how to play, gear is completely immaterial.
Not only does it practically negate the existence of TFF (yipes!); it also denies an important level of realization in a guitarist.
If the vocal artist is incredibly talented, does it matter if I record their vocal tracks for their next potential Grammy-winning album with a Neuman U-87, or a Shure 57? Jesus, of course it does.
Saints preserve us, but I don't like listening to Roy Buchanan's work on Les Paul. It's heavy and obtrusive to my ears. Is his style still unmistakably Roy? Sure--but I don't like to listen to it when I can listen all day to his Tele material.
In our Larry Carlton comparison, emotion--joy--was present in both clips, rendering the gear question mostly moot. For me, in my Roy B. comparison, it is most certainly not moot. My point being that at some level, gear choices can indeed work counterproductively to the overall musical experience.
And sometimes a different choice can therefore enhance it, even for the Larry Carltons of the world.
RITCHIE BLACKMORE - unbeatable!
Which is awesome and worthy of emulation in my opinion, but doesn't necessarily mean that those of us who DO hear the difference and feel some way or another about it are wrong in doing so.
Those who listen to what he's playing AND listen to how it sounds are not lesser musicians because of it. I believe that one can very quickly become too bogged down in the latter part and therefore start missing what's good and important about the first part, but it can also (like anything good) be done in moderation.
I love the lion's share of Carlton's work, particularly everything he did with the Dan, but I can hear the difference and () I do think some of it has a more pleasing timbre/sound/tone than some of the rest of it.
But somehow, I'm still cool too. At least my ma says so.
Come to think of it, it's probably me. Yeah, *I* have the best Strat tone.
If I do say so myself, & I do.
Some people might wrongly jump to that conclusion.
But I don't think even fezz means it quite that literally.
Players of a certain level of accomplishment seem able to get their basic essense across on any properly set up, functioning rig. Within reason.
I don't know much about Roy. But from what I understand, he wasn't always a well ajusted guy. Compared to Larry, I wonder if that may be a factor.
"Well, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."
Elvis Costello
No, Buchanan sounded horrible on an LP.
Although it could have been his state of mind when he decided to pick one up.
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
I sure didn't mean to imply otherwise, pc. I was just explaining a kind of tonal aphasia in my own development. :)
And I know my Fezzter sounds "better" than my POD. But somehow, when I'm playing through it, I don't hear the difference as much as feel it.
I occurs to me that I'm much more likely to say some musical component - a song or guitar part or whatever - "feels great" than "sounds great." That explains my lousy production chops.
Jim, you're just joking I know, but you have amazing production chops for that very reason. Musical passages and instrument parts do have to feel right.
Audio is heard, music is felt.
My prattling on about the definition of "sound" is just an intellectual (and mostly pointless) time passer.
I wasn't taking aim at anyone in this thread, but I did detect that a few other members were feeling aimed at. I just wanted to say that it is okay to say out loud that you hear differences in the gear of the pros, and that the differences might even matter to you.
Gear is the car, music is both the trip and the destination.
Right on.Some people might wrongly jump to that conclusion.
But I don't think even fezz means it quite that literally.
I believe Fezz wants to get across just how much the player matters and how little the gear matters, and I agree wholly.
But it can't be all and nothing, because Fezz himself has written in other threads that despite the 5e3 sound being his favorite thing, he's doing all BF stuff with Jimmy.
If the player made all the sound, that would be completely incongruous with his gear switch for that project. It wouldn't matter a lick. Ole Piney and the 5e3 would be all he needed--no twang-bar Teles, no MiJ double-bound Tele, no baritone.
But Fezz is a pro--he's the real deal. Certain gigs/sessions need certain sounds, and he's got the ears to tell him what fits with what. And, I bet there are more than a couple Jimmy's tunes Fezz can play with either a Tele or a Strat and may just pick the one he's feeling at the moment. The Carlton clips indicate "Room 335" is served with both a 335 or a Strat... in Larry's hands.
Haven't heard Fezz with Jimmy yet, but I guarantee you that when I do, I'll know exactly who I'm listening to.
Will I know it's not Old Piney and the 5e3? Most likely. Will it bother me? I highly doubt it.
I've been avoiding this thread like the plague, but what the heck.
I find the fundamental issue is many, if not most people, refer to a players "tone" as his sound. A player's sound - to me - is the whole enchilada. Technique, musical ability, phrasing, touch, everything becomes part of a player's sound.
Tone? If I need to alter my tone, I simply turn the knob marked "TONE" on my Stratocaster or select a different pickup, or both. Maybe hit a pedal too. Or the VOLUME knob.
Honestly, it really is that simple.
But signature timbre to me is much more the amp. An AC30 will never sound like a blackface, regardless of what guitar you use.
"No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim
I've been thinking for a long time it could be summed up like this: "Tone is in your gear, but your sound is in your hands."
But then I think "Wait...maybe it should be the other way around...."
"I haven't slept for ten days...because that would be too long." -- Mitch Hedberg
Or pull your pick closer to your fingers. Or loosen your grip. Or move your picking hand closer to the end of the neck. Or all of those.
A real player does all of this instinctively from what they hear in their head vs. what's coming out of the speakers.
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
F'in A.
Meanwhile, just for fun--since it's in the recent topic--check this out:
http://mr335.tv/index.html?req=1&sta..._amplification
I notice he lists "my touch" first.
"I haven't slept for ten days...because that would be too long." -- Mitch Hedberg
Oh wow--make sure you click the one called "Tweaking Tone." His "Steely Dan rig." Too cool.
Very cool link, pc. Check out the instruction section - great stuff.
Oh, man. Two Dumbles, and he puts Sovtek 5881's in there. That's like mixing an XO and Sam's Club Cola.
I guess if you're Larry, you don't need good tubes.
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
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