I played the VR15 and the VR30 today at GC. Very good sounding amps. I almost bought the VR15 for $89 just because it was so cheap. Very loud amp for 15 watts. Takes about 30 seconds to warm up the tube after you turn it on. Very cool.
After I was done playing I tested out a Big Muff Pi on my amp the Hot Rod Deluxe. I do have to say the Hot Rod blows this amp out of the water. I loved the Big Muff Pi so I bought it.
No shit? Wow, $89 Vs. $500....whoulda thunk it!Originally Posted by SilverStrat
A friend in need is a good reason to screen your calls.
Yeah, that was a pretty stupid statement.
Well... both are better than 16 bit. The old Apogee 20-bit converters sounded pretty good.
It doesn't really matter though in this case. Neither have a word clock in/out, and I don't think the Vavetronix has a SPDIF or AES/EBU out. I wouldn't want my clock coming from either one, so it's all audio baby!
A more interesting comparison at the price-point would be the HRDX vs the 100VT
On order to do a fair(er) comparison, you'd need to think speaker. There's no way that little 8" is going to keep up with the 12" in the HRD. The amps are so far removed from one another it'd be tough to even get a reasonable assessment.
The beauty is, you don't need to. They're one is a small practice amp that sounds great on it's own, the other is designed for gigs. They each do their own thing well.
Having said that, try hooking a VR15 up to your HRD's speaker and see what happens. You'll be shocked.
A friend in need is a good reason to screen your calls.
A little OT here. Something that should be considered when thinking of a VT series purchase is that the Valve Reactor circuit is after the line out, so that the tonal qualities that make the amp sounds attractive are lost if one is recording direct, which was a main factor in my decision to not buy one of those amps, even though the price was pretty good. This is not the case in the VTX & VTH series amps, where the Valve Reactor circuit is in front of the line out. I'm not familiar with the VR series, but I'm going to guess that if there's a Valve Reactor circuit in those models, it'll be behind the line out or ext. speaker jacks.
Keep your feet warm, your strings clean, and your powder dry.
There it is...page 13 of the manual. I didn't even think to look before. Thanks, BigMikeD.
Tenebrae
Page 9 in mine? Crazy! I would have denied that :) On the other hand it says: "Use this jack if you're plugging directly in to a mixer, recording device, or if you're using headphones. The output from this jack is taken from immediately before the ValveReactor power amp, and the character of the guitar amp cabinet is applied to it"
Gosh.
I don't think I have ever really let my amp strech out! It's loud ya know! To me, that is.
Thanks for the clarification!
Fezz, is that Hungarian?
It's "Engineerian".:heeFezz, is that Hungarian?
In fact it sounds like it's going to explode gain + volume + master on full. :brr
Messed around a bit with a AD60VTX and an SG and it's really impressive. They had the VR15 right next to it, and the larger amp preserves that (almost unbelieveable) warm chunkiness of the little guy but can do Blackface, Mesa, etc. quite convincingly. It doesn't sound coldly modeled like, say, Line6. I had the 60 set on 1 watt and it was really nice, quite loud.
If the recording output takes it's feed post Valve Reactor, I have to imagine this thing can do it all and at low volumes if need be.
If you don't mind me asking, Jack, how does the Valvetronix compare "in the flesh" with the demos and "audition room" on the Vox site?
I read your post and checked out the AD60VTX on the site again. Relistened to the Valvetronix demos, watched the movie thingie and redid the audition (for those interested, here are the links: movie , demo , and audition )
Are the demos on the site a fair representation of the VTX series? I guess that's my question :).
Tenebrae
As I stated earlier in thsi thread, a buddy has a AD60 and it is easily the best sounding modeling amp I've ever heard. He isn't much of a tweaker though, he's content to turn it on, set his sound and (manually) call up an effect now and then. Still, I've heard him onstage more than once and I can vouch for the amp. I'd love to get my hands on it for a week or two, and I think if I ask he'd let me with no problem.
A friend in need is a good reason to screen your calls.
Cool....I'd forgotten about your earlier post...Old age is here and the memory must be on the way out :)
Tenebrae
I didn't try those same ones (I love the "Riviera Paradise") or load up any presets, but I have no reason to doubt they'd be right on...really felt like a tube amp. With modelers I sometimes feel like I'm not really playing (?), like I'm not connected somehow and listening to someone else (who kinda sucks, to boot!). With tubes, there's that responsiveness that I like that doesn't come from a pre-amp...this feels more like that to me. Not exactly the same as my Boogie .50, but hella better than my Marshall Valvestate 1/2-stack...and it gets lots more sounds than either.If you don't mind me asking, Jack, how does the Valvetronix compare "in the flesh" with the demos and "audition room" on the Vox site?
Yeah, they're fair. The website only represents a small subset of the available sounds, actually.
Vox do seem to have taken modelling to the next level with these amps, no doubt about it. It's hard to give a snap judgement overall though... it's like buying 11 amps or so all at once, not to mention the effects.
I actually feel I'm going to have to learn to play differently for some of these emulations, they're so different to what I'm used to with my venerable Musicman 210 HD 130 combo.
For the AD30VT, with the one 10" speaker, the sound sounds a little "compressed" for some of the emulations, even with the volume turned up. So for a quick test, I patched the line/phone output into the clean channel of the HD 130... oh boy. Now there can be no doubt...
All a bit disorienting really. It's a whole new ballgame. I was going to buy some new pickups for one of my guitars. I've put that on hold while I let all of this sink in fully.
-Mark
I'd just thought I'd post a link to a review of the AD120VTX and Tonelab that specifically looks at the modelling side of things, delves under the hood and comments in passing on the state of play regarding Line 6:
review
Tenebrae
PS: those 210 HDs are wonderful amps, Plugger. Good score!
I bought it new in 1979. It was my second guitar amp; the first was an ETI480 100w kit I built when I was 15. I notice you can still buy the ETI480 kits from Dick Smith... they actually weren't too bad sounding for a SS amp.
I first played a Musicman amp when I was still in high school, the high school band was the support group for the "pro" main act. The pros graciously let us use some of their gear. I heard my guitar through that amp, and I knew I had to have one. Just this year, I replaced the caps in it, and it's sounding like a new amp again. I'm very attached to it, obviously, but I feel now I haven't really become familiar with other styles of amp over the years.
So the AD30VT is doing strange things to my head. It's one thing to try out an amp in a store or on a gig for a little while, another thing to really sit down with for an extended time to figure out what it can do for you. With the Vox arriving on the doorstep, this little "practice amp" is opening up all sorts of possibilities. I now have to rethink how all my guitars sound. I'm intimately familiar with how all my guitars sound through my Musicman amp. But I'm quite surprised at how different they can sound through some of these amp models. So I'm finding that I have to rethink how I play songs on those guitars with these amp models. It's really all very odd, and unexpected, and even a little disconcerting! But rather interesting...
This really isn't Kansas, is it, Toto?
-Mark
That's an interesting read, tenebrae. I'm going to try and borrow my buddy's and see what it'll do first-hand. He has the older model with the open back though.
A friend in need is a good reason to screen your calls.
To be honest with you, telecast, the more I read about/hear of the VR/VT/VTX and Tonelab range the more fascinated I become. Given that I will pretty much never leave the house again to play anywhere it looks as though my playing will turn more towards home recording. I think something like a Tonelab could pretty much do it for me on that front. I will be very interested in what you have to say about your mate's Vox....
Plugger, you're not the only disoriented one!
Hang in there, man
Tenebrae
Well, I'm fascinated by this too. An AD30VT is on it's way here.
Interesting review, thanks for posting it.
"Judging the Valvetronix against the previous Line6 modeling amps I’ve played (Flextone, Flextone II, and Vetta) on the merits of warm clean and bluesy sounds made for literally an “apples to oranges” comparison. The Valvetronix is so clearly superior at producing these tones that players seeking bluesy sounds in a modeling amp will no doubt be pleased."
That's what struck me. Most modelers can pull off the "insane" stuff, but the subtleties and feel are lost.
We have a similar frame of reference, then :)I actually feel I'm going to have to learn to play differently for some of these emulations, they're so different to what I'm used to with my venerable Musicman 210 HD 130 combo.
Bought that new in '83 or so when I was 15. Love to hear what you use as far as tubes to get some more crunch/gain.
A little late to the discussion, but I needed to share that you guys are killin' me. LOL!! When you talk "botique" amps and $2500 price tags, then there's no worries because it is way out of my range plus I'm not good enough to justify something like that. But for $119 I ordered one of the MF VR15's last week awaiting its arrival soon. I could justify the price since the only amps I have now are both BF and I don't want to burn them out noodlin' around in my house until I find a good amp tech I feel comfortable with since my relocation. This Vox should make a nice practice amp, and for $119 I don't care too much were it to blow up. I also splurged and got the footpedal for an extra $25. From your descriptions I think I'll like it, sight unseen.
$119 was the best price I found, and since advertised as close outs, I didn't want to get shut out for a $30 difference while searching high and low for a better price. Plus shipping was free.
I have the 15 watt Valvetronix,and I can't believe how real that thing sounds when tweaked.It does use a 12AX7 in the power stage,but man,oh man.To me,Vox has hit the ball out of the park in the last few years.
"My flesh and my heart fail...but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever."
PS. 73:26
MY JAMS--
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...&content=music
Go to guitarcenter.com.
Click on the 'closeout' flyer.
When it asks for them, the username is 'cool' and the password is 'deals'
The VR15 is listed for $89.99 on the left side of the flyer, a page or two down.
Call MF and tell them you want a price match. They'll credit the $30.
A friend in need is a good reason to screen your calls.
Nope! Go back and read all of this thread, and check out the links tenebrae put up. It's not in the power stage, or the pre-amp, but in it's own little amp tucked away inside the chassis. A whole new hybrid.
A friend in need is a good reason to screen your calls.
Details here.
Thanks for the help and advice. I sent an email to MF asking for the $30 credit, we'll see what happens. Thanks again.
Call them tomorrow. Seriously.
A friend in need is a good reason to screen your calls.
While I'm leaning heavily toward a VTX model due to more advanced features and ability to store/recall multiple tones, at $89 the VR15 is the best deal of the bunch for pure tone...best deal I know of, in fact. I may grab one tomorrow just 'cuz it's so damn cheap 'n cute, they had a pile last time I was in.
Cool! I guess these MM amps really are "keepers" then -- it's not just me. :)We have a similar frame of reference, then :)
Bought that new in '83 or so when I was 15. Love to hear what you use as far as tubes to get some more crunch/gain.
I used the JJ Tesla E34L (note: not to be confused with the JJ Tesla EL34!) The E34L is an uprated EL34 that is supposedly better able to handle the higher (~700V) plate voltages on the MM amps. I'm not sure if your model amp also has the higher plate voltages, though.
I replaced the valves early last year when one of the old ones was getting intermiitently microphonic... actually, didn't notice much of a difference in tone when the new valves went in, which was a bad sign.
I didn't notice much improvement in tone because, as it turned out, the degraded state of my caps was masking all that... but when I replaced all the electrolytic caps (with advice and help from many TFF posters) -- wow, what a difference! The deterioration in tone had been so gradual over the years I really hadn't appreciated how far things had slid. Like cleaning the windows in your house -- geez, that looks better!
Anyway, I'm on a mission from God now. Have *you* changed the caps in *your* amp -- lately? :)
-Mark
Back onto the original topic of this thread, I think Telecast's suggestion that what these little amps need most is a good cabinet to play through is spot-on... the sole 10" in the AD30VT sounds fine by itself, but the amps real potential is unmasked when played through something more serious. By more serious, I suspect what's gained is the bass reponse -- you can only ask so much of a 10" speaker in a little cab. I speculate the effect will be evn more pronounced with the AD15VT 8" speaker.
The lack of bass response is not entirely a bad thing as a practice amp, however -- my wife tells me she can't hear the new toy when it's turned down. Even with the master at 1, she was always aware of the HD 130... I think with the bigger cabinet it just has a resonance in the lower frequencies that will carry through the house, even at low volumes.
-Mark
Good for you, man! Look forward to your comments when you've had a chance to give it a run.
Tenebrae
Heh...nope. :) I'm going to have to look into that more closely. I changed the tubes (2x6L6, 1x12AX7) years ago and did notice a marked improvement since the others were so old, but it's been a really long time and I'd like to get this amp sounding as good as possible.Anyway, I'm on a mission from God now. Have *you* changed the caps in *your* amp -- lately?
Nahh. Reminds me of the little Gorilla amp I had maybe 20 years ago, the original one. Used to run it into the MM pictured above, pretty cool Marshall stack on-the-cheap for a kid. :)You can't really argue with $89 now, can you?
No no no. The little Voxes shouldn't be denigrated by comparisons to infamous shit boxes such as those old Gorillas.
We're talking about a totally different ballgame; the only similarities are the size and price point, IMO.
Yeah, I know I'm being nitpicky. ;)
Tone is in the fingers, eh? Let's hear your Vox, Marshall and Fender fingerings then...
Granted...but they're both comparably cute. :)We're talking about a totally different ballgame; the only similarities are the size and price point, IMO.
A baby rattlesnake is cute too, but it can still kill ya.
I'm just sayin'.
A friend in need is a good reason to screen your calls.
After listening to the clips at this site I had considered the AD50VT for the 12" speaker, but the amp is larger so figured the AD30VT would be a compromise between the 8" in the AD15VT. Hopefully it will arrive before the end of the week. I'll post a review as soon as I can get a good chance at trying it out.
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