Strat XII?

[tom3k]

Anybody familiar with these? I bought one in the late '80s when they first came out. They were made in Japan. I have a couple of questions:

-Has anybody found a decent set of pickups for these? I've tried a few, and can't find anything that works for me. It seems the weaker and 'duller' I get (it's a very bright guitar), the closest I've got so far is the flat pole Fenders that came with my '74 hard tail, and they still sound like crap (except for the neck, which for some reason sounds awesome). I was thinking of a Duncan lipstick set. Advice/opinions?

-Does anyone out there have any tips about the cosmetics of Late '80s ('87 most likely) MIJ strat pickups? I pulled them almost immediately (squealed something fierce - this was before I knew anything about using tubing instead of springs and wax potting). And although I remember them looking a little cheesy, I can't remember much else. I had another clone strat 12-string (Fane/Hondo) from a couple of years earlier that also got the stock pups yanked. At the moment I can only find one set in the pickup drawer - Red bobbins, a little taller than a traditional Fender, shiny tape around the coils, and red shielded wire (as opposed to two individual wires). I'm assuming these are the Hondo's? Help!

Thanks

[Teleologist]

I've been playing Ric 12s for over 30 years and one thing I've learned is that electric 12s are bright!!!!! Surprisingly the PUPs in a Ric are more like P90 or Jazzmaster PUPs - nowhere near as bright as Tele or Strat PUPs. Leo knew that too - the original Fender 12 had those funky split-coil PUPs which are much darker sounding. Even the ES335-12 with T-Tops is a really bright guitar. Rics also have the stringing reversed - the octave strings are below the normal ones & that also takes some of the sting out. One of Leo's prototypes also had reverse stringing(there's a pic in the Smith book), but why he didn't go that route, I dunno.

Anyway, I've played a few Strat and Tele 12s and really disliked the sound compared to a Ric or the original Fender 12. IMO some kind of single-coil sized P90 PUP or even a Li'l '59 should work much better in these guitars. I'd go for something with lower output and good string definition - there's too much going on to try darkening it with a higher gain or distortion PUP IMO.

You should also stick with pure nickel strings - maybe even consider Pyramid nickel flatwounds. Ric uses compressed nickel roundwounds(I think they're made by GHS and are re-packaged Nickel Rockers), but they're only available from Ric as 10s - probably too much for a Fender scale-length. Compressed or flatwound pure nickel will have lower output, better definition, and a duller sound.

If you're near a store that carries them, try out a few Ric 12 and 6 strings even if you hate 'em, just to check out the sound of the PUPs and strings.

[tom3k]

I love Ric 12's, just can't afford 'em !;)

My brother-in-law has a vintage 360 and the sound is just beautiful. Those pickups are pretty weak, that's why I was looking in that direction. The lil '59's aren't abad idea - I love the one in the bridge of my ESP, very warm and full. The Bridge model might be a little hot for the application though. As a solidbody, it'll never sound like a Ric, but I'd like it to sound good . The very things that make a strat cool (tranparency, 'glassiness'), don't necessarily work for a 12 string, either.

After a lot of trial and error, I've settled on Dean Markley 9's.

[Teleologist]

It's not just that Ric PUPs are weak(they are), but from what I understand a wide/shallow single coil(P90, Jazzmaster, etc.) produces a darker sound while a tall-skiny coil makes for a bright sound. The other way to go darker is weaker magnets - maybe Alnico II Pros or something warmer along that line???

[kottkewannabe]

Remember that "Turn, Turn, Turn" and other Byrds' stuff was done with flatwound strings. Trying that might help a bit.

[tom3k]

My personal experiences with Rics were all with roundwound strings. Everything I could have hoped for sound-wise was there.

[Teleologist]

Originally posted by kottkewannabe
Remember that "Turn, Turn, Turn" and other Byrds' stuff was done with flatwound strings. Trying that might help a bit.

True, but those early Byrds songs had lots of treble boost and the old '60s Ric circuit actually had a .0047uF cap in series with the bridge PUP to brighten it up(which many players removed)! In the studio, Roger used 2 compressors direct to the board with lots of EQ. Live, he used a VOX treble booster into a Dual-Showman - been there, done that & that combination will take your head off! In later material he backed off the highs quite a bit. A more 'normal' west-coast Ric/Fender sound would be Paul Katner's sound with the Airplane or some of the recent C&W material.

The old Ric flatwounds were cool too and I wish they'd bring them back. The Pyramids are nice, but my favorites were the nylon tape wound Maxims. No string noise, but brighter than the nickel flatwounds.

[tom3k]

I was looking at a set of Lace Sensor 'Chrome Domes' yesterday. From the description, they sound like they might be just the thing, they're cheaper than even a used set of lil '59's, and they'd certainly look cool (extremely important, admit it!;)). Anybody had experience with these?

[Scott Stulken]

I agree, Teleologist -- a Fender 12-string with the slanted pickup would cut *anyone's* head off!

I think that some kind of nonslanted, lower-powered P-90 type pickup would be optimum. A true Jazzmaster-style pickup may be worth looking into.

- Scott

[tom3k]

Since both the body and the pickguard are unique to the XII, I'd like to avoid routing in case I ever decide to sell it. I do agree that a P90 or Jazzmaster-type pickup would probably sound pretty damn good, though.

[79sunburst]

Tom Are you refering to a MIJ Strat XVII or a mid sixties ELECTRIC XVII?

I bought a MIJ Strat XVII in 87 (89?) when they first came out.

A great playing guitar.

Sonicly it just was not there however.

Not Horrible, just Not inspiring

I Later I got a a EDS1275 and Gave the Strat XVII away.

If I still had it I would put EMG SAV pickups with a EMG Presence control in it .

That would go a long way towards eliminating the Clanky, overly Brash Mij pick up tone. IMO

Did your XVII have a rosewood or maple Board?

what Color was it?

Sunburst79

[tom3k]

It's a MIJ Strat XII from the late '80s, CAR w/ rosewood.

I installed an SA set with the presence control about 10 days ago. I'm generally not a fan of EMG's, they take the guitar itself out of the sonic picture IMO, but that was kind of what was necessary in this case.

They sound really good, but I had to shim up the neck quite a bit to get the strings to clear the pickups - either the EMG's have gotten taller since the last set I bought (for my hardtail, about 15 years ago), or the strat XII routs are particularly shallow.

I generally hate neck shims, but this one came with one from the factory. I might rout it eventually, but in the short term i'm probably going to work on a better shim.

[79sunburst]

Hmm, I used the SAV's.

I thought the exposed magnet were a cool touch.

My main reason for using the SAVs was to get the output level up into the Gibson range so I could enjoy the guitar with out having to chang amp settings as much.

And of course eliminate hum.

My VII was olympic white with a Rosewood board

Frankly these would be good Guitars for a H.S.H. pick up configuration.

IMO

[frank thomson]

aren' they reissuing these??

[Zendocon]

I'd love a Japanese Strat XII. I'd still do all my recording with my Ric, but I think a Strat XII would look cool on stage

[frank thomson]

see the new MF mag

sunburst only , $699

[Zendocon]

Interesting...