Tone Suckers...

[photoweborama]

How much do buffered bypasses really suck your tone?

I'm just curious. I just can't tell myself....

[pc]

I think it's a continuum Mark.

I have three true-bypass pieces on my board and three regular old Boss pedals and one Dyna Comp.

Yes, I can absolutely tell the difference when playing alone in my studio if I have those 4 pedals in the signal path even when they're off.

Is it night and day? No.

Can I tell with just one Boss pedal and all the rest true bypass? No.

Does it affect my "live tone" at a noisy, beer-stained local club? Heck no.

If I'm recording something important, I take the non-true-bypass pedals I'm not using out of the signal path, otherwise, it matters very little to me.

Exceptions:
1) Before I modded my Vox Wah, it by itself was an extremely noticeable tone sucker.
2) My Vintage Rat pedal is a noticeable tone sucker all by itself, but I don't use it in my live rig.
3) Replacing my pedalboard cabling with GeorgeL made a far-larger impact on my tone then how many non-true-bypass pedals were on there.
4) Same as #3 when I added my PedalPower 2 (as opposed to just a power strip).

That's me. YMMV, etc. :)

[chuckocaster]

well put pc.

i personally like to have all true bypass pedals. i know there is a lot of talk about having a buffer in your signal path. but for me and my tone i like to not have one. once again, personal preference.

i also run a voodoo lab pedal power 2, and george l's on my boards.

i am not against running buffered pedals, i just prefer not too. also, there are some pedals that have a better buffer than others.

[photoweborama]

Well, I guess I'll get the George L's next month, and I'll think about modding my Dunlop wah for true bypass if I need to. It's a circuit board type, so they are a pain to mod. You have to cut traces.

I only have three pedals not, the TS9DX, the DS1 and the wah. I'm going to add a Dynacomp, a phase pedal of some sorts and a delay of some sorts.

Thats going to be my final setup, and this time I'm trying to do it with quality units. Not that I've not enjoyed the lower end units I've had. They worked ok, I just want the "real" stuff now...

[curtisstetka]

Some buffers are better than others, is the bottom line. I would guess that most modern manufacturers are very aware of all the hysteria surrounding this issue and if they use a buffered bypass, try to use a decent one.

Increasingly, even cheaper pedals have true bypass. Most wahs seem to have them these days.

Personally, I too don't notice enough of a difference to get my undies in a bunch. If/when recording, I've only got the effects in line that are absolutely necessary for that take. That just makes sense. Live, as pc said, nobody can tell, nobody cares about your vintage vibe, mojo-infused, true bypass TONE. All they care about is if the beat enhances or inhibits their drunken gyrating.

[chuckocaster]

...and I'll think about modding my Dunlop wah for true bypass if I need to. It's a circuit board type, so they are a pain to mod. You have to cut traces.

no need to do that mark. it's just a couple wires going into the switch, it isn't attached to the board. i put the fulltone switch in my vox and it worked wonders.

[pc]

Actually Chuck, if you look on Mike Fuller's website, he does indicate that adding the switch to the Dunlop wah Mark is referring to is such a huge PITA that it's almost not worth doing. The way the switch is connected to the PCB is entirely different than in the Vox.

Vox actually makes that Wah now with TBP and with a 9V in jack on the side for about the same price as the regular version used to go for. Might actually be worth picking one up, because you're so right, they sound so much better with the TBP.

[chuckocaster]

i'll have to look at my diagramn again then, i still have it from when i swapped it. i guess my memory ain't what it used to be.

get it mark. the vox really is good. i modded mine so i guess it's like the new ones. the only other thing i'm going to do is have keeley put in a fasel for me. they said it takes the sweep and cuts it down a little to just the middle section. which is all i use, never all the way forward or back.

[Kap'n]

i'll have to look at my diagramn again then, i still have it from when i swapped it. i guess my memory ain't what it used to be. .

I think the latest versions of the Dunlop have the switch wired directly to the board. No wires.

[Don]

Try better cables first.

I use about 5 pedals and found that my tone was worse with them in the chain even after I replaced them or modified them all with true bypass.

I switched to George L's cables and can't even tell when my old AD-9 and H&K Rotoshpere are in the chain now.

I believe that most of the tone loss that I was hearing was due to crappy cables.

[photoweborama]

Don,
Is that an Maxon AD-9 or an Ibanez AD-9?

[Kap'n]

I'm guessing from the description, it's an original 80's Ibanez AD-9, made by Maxon. Buffered bypass.

[Don]

Don,
Is that an Maxon AD-9 or an Ibanez AD-9?

Kap'ns right. It's an original Ibanez AD-9. I bought it new in '83. It has a buffered bypass.

I think that having crappy cables and a row of buffered pedals is a problem.
Good cables and mostly hard bypass pedals is good.

Like I said above I use my Rotosphere and AD-9 along with a few hard bypass pedals and don't notice the tone degradation that I used to hear with crappy cables and mostly buffered pedals isn't there.

[chuckocaster]

i was reading on the geoFX page about the ibanez buffered bypass. can't really remember details, but something about them getting the impedance matched properly with other pedals and the guitar. seems right to me cause the only pedal i have that isn't true bypass is my ts9. and that's the ONLY one that i can't here a difference between buffered and non true bypass.

[Kap'n]

my ts9....that's the ONLY one that i can't here a difference between buffered and non true bypass.

THey sure as heck make a switching pop when you boost the level, and drop the gain.

[Don]

I had an '84 TS-9 that destroyed my tone when bypassed!

I hate to sound like a broken record, but I think it might've been the cheap patch cables.

In any case, I built a BYOC clone that's better sounding, has hard wired bypass and more reliable switching then sold the TS-9 for 10 times what I paid for it and more than twice what the clone cost me!

[photoweborama]

What do you guys think of the current Ibanez AD-9?

[Kap'n]

What do you guys think of the current Ibanez AD-9?

I like mine. Lo-fi, sort of like rhythmic accompaniment, more than delay. I've got mine in a Loooper setup, so I don't worry about the bypass.

[Don]

It has nothing in common with the original except name and styling. It's supposedly not the same circuit at all. Maxon doesn't make the new AD-9s for Ibanez.

That doesn't make it bad though.

I've seen a review stating that the Maxon equivalent is much better (and has hard wired bypass), but it's also much more expensive.

I built a BYOC DD-80 which is supposed to be an AD-808(?) clone, but it's digital and brighter and more percussive. I like it for rockabilly but my old AD-9 is much more natural sounding.

[photoweborama]

Time for another new thread...

[Kap'n]

It [reissue AD-9]has nothing in common with the original except name and styling. It's supposedly not the same circuit at all.

As I understand it, it uses new bucket brigade chips from China. Because they're different chips, the circuitry needs to be different.

The Maxon uses the original chips, which are NOS. I don't think there's been a bucket brigade chip made in a decade or more, other than the new Chinese ones. NOS isn't really feasible for a consumer-grade high production device.