Being a sub. The good, the bad, the ugly.

[Tele-Bob]

I've been subbing with a few bands now on a steady basis and it has changed my perspective on gigging in ways I hadn't imagined.

It's really good because it's like jumping off a cliff. You get up there and play lots of music with a bunch of people you don't normally play with and it's an awesome feeling when it all comes together and works.

There are times, when the band is good, and you become absorbed by the other players as they listen to the way you're delivering your parts and the whole thing gels together because everyone is listening and equally enthusiastic about doing the gig. They seem to enjoy the new elements a new player brings to the group. That's the good.

When the band is used to playing "the way they play it" and are just going through the motions, it can be hell. What usually happens is that the band has slowly fallen into this dilluted way that they play the songs because they haven't listened to the recordings in months or years and the original vibe of the song gets lost and often just gets lax. Enter the sub. You walk in to the gig having just spent hours with the recordings so you know the tempos, tricks, riffs and subtle nuances that make the songs cool but the band has forgotten and they're just not up for groovin' with you because, they do it the way the do it. Habit. That's the bad. I won't get into the ugly.

So you embark on an evening that has you trying to fit in with some new players and you hope for the best. It can be truly magical, or it can be the longest night of your life! Either way, subbing makes a good player a lot stronger as they try to fit in with the best of situations as well as the worst. I'm subbing tonight and tomorrow night and have spent the last 5 hours going over the material. Fingers crossed and hoping for the best as I approach the cliff!

[Franklin]

I've been subbing with a few bands now on a steady basis and it has changed my perspective on gigging in ways I hadn't imagined.

Yes!

It's really good because it's like jumping off a cliff. You get up there and play lots of music with a bunch of people you don't normally play with and it's an awesome feeling when it all comes together and works.

The adrenaline rush is quite powerful!!!


I've only done it twice, and they were both great experiences. I was so nervous thinking I wasn't ready- especially the first time because I didn't have time to rehearse with them. Scary shit!

Like you, I went crazy to learn all the "nuances" of the original cover songs. Although I'm sure I wasn't as thourough as you! But luckily both bands were into reinterpreting the covers, so I was able to jam a lot.

I'm on the "re-interpreting" covers camp, so I was lucky. If I was asked to sub in a "cover band", I don't know if I would do it. That's not my thing.

Funny side bar; I was in contact with a band looking for a guitarist for a cover band. They rehearse @ 3x a month and wanted to gig 1 or 2x a month. They wanted to do perfect renditions of cover songs. So they wanted to find the right guitarist and spend months getting ready. I liked some of the songs that they mentioned, so I thought "Can I do it, will I like it"? So I learn 4 of there tunes for an audition, "Back in Black" , "Sweet Home Alabama", "Hey Joe" and an "Pride and Joy". "Cool" I think, I already pretty much know these songs, so I'll just dig into them and get them down perfectly. I thought it would be easy, and it was! I played along to them for two weeks striaght, and went in there knowing every riff, tempo, solo and "nuance" of the song. Well, look at the songs I mentioned. They all have very distinct rhythms and they are very much standards for bar bands. Well to make a long story less long, they were horrible. It sounded like the drummer was playing the same beat for everything, the bassest was just playing root notes and the guitarist/singer, although a good singer, butchered each song as well.

I would rather play in an original band that reinterpretes, than a sloppy cover band! :hurl

[melody]

I would rather play in an original band that reinterpreted, than a sloppy cover band! :hurl

Yes Yes, That's what I'm trying to get this group of people I've been rehearsing with to understand.Improve can be a good thing..

[Tele-Bob]

I hear ya Franklin. For 5 years I went on crappy auditions. So many in fact that my song catalog grew immensely during that time. I must admit though, I didn't get way on into the exact renditions of the songs after a while because, like you, I found that people talk a good rap but very few actually deliver.

Now, when I sub, I'm given a CD and I learn the tune very close to the original being careful to "know the groove" but not be so well rehearsed that I'm totally locked into to. Going to the extreme makes it difficult to "go with the flow" when the band does "their rendition" of it.

Personally, I feel that "inerpretation" of a song is an absolute must for a blues gig. The audience expects to hear your own take on a given tune. That's how blues is handed down. But rock, pop and top 40 need to played as close to the original as possible. This is just my opinion and I get a great deal of enjoyment out of playing songs this way. Some bands I play with totally nail it. Others interpret. Both are good and both add to my "bag of tricks."

[Franklin]

It's very hard sometimes because the recorded version of the covers have two or more guitars playing and you have to find the one on top, I don't know how else to describe it. Then there are tunes like Clapton's "Cocaine" where he double tracks guitars over one another.

One good thing about learning all those tunes is that it is also good ear training. Another cool thing is when I learned some Allman Brothers tunes, they were harmonizing the guitars, but not always in perfects 4rth or 5ths. It seemed like Duane would play around a harmonized part. Trying to play both has given me a cool technique of playing double-stops. I don't use it enough, but it is very cool none the less!!

If I could change on thing about my playing it would be learning many songs and somehow being able to retain them!

[pc]

My subbing experiences are generally different. With the exception of the Country band I sometimes sub with, I don't ever spend time listening to the recorded versions of these tunes because I know them all. I've played them with a bunch of different bands, and I've been part of dozens of different arrangements.

To me it's about a meeting in the middle. You as the sub have to be ready for them to do their own signature thing to a tune. The one grace of a good cover band is (hopefully) that they don't play it exactly like the record. They play it like they want to, and a good sub uses his/her ears to go with the flow.

Perfect case in point, although it was a sit-in and not a sub gig.

I sat in last night with a band ("Paradise Island") that I've never played with before. The drummer and I are good friends (he's the guy from my "Reelin' In The Years" MP3 in the Members Links), but I'd never played with the other guys. This band has been in around literaly forever, albeit with some personnel changes over the years. Great band, especially with my buddy on drums. Really a great listen.

Apparently, in their version of "Play That Funky Music," they modulate up to G in the middle, where the brief guitar solo (still in E) usually goes, as opposed to at the end where the modulation normally occurs for the choruses out. In their version, they do a breakdown with just guitar, drums and bass. We got to that part and the drummer mouthed "breakdown" to me, so I started doing some scratchy rhythmic comping. The bass player stayed in E, so I did too. Whatever we did really worked, so I figured it was normal for them.

When I found out later that they normally do the breakdown in G, I asked why the bass player didn't go there, and he said that since their arrangement is different, he assumed I wouldn't be able to follow if he moved to another key.

Not follow from E to G? Yikes.

It was kind of sad to me, because that might be what they're used to with subs or sit-ins. I sat in for a few tunes, and by the end of it they realized that my ears are what they are, and they seemed really happy. I hope so, because I'd LOVE to be a first-call for those guys.

My whole point to this story is that as a sub you definitely have that "jumping off a cliff" feeling, but I think the band you're subbing with has the same exact feeling. It's not only about you (the sub) getting your feet on solid ground, it's about a meeting in the middle. As soon as they realize they can trust your ears, the gig is in the bag. They become loose again and you can really let yourself relax and have fun. I love that feeling. :)

[moonpie]

There ain't nothing like it.
You strap on your shootin' iron. You step out onto the street....the sun is in your eyes, but you don't care because win, lose, or draw.....

women folk of all ages will remember how you looked in the spotlight.....




yes....the sideman is the true gun slinger of old......



the sideman doesn't do an "interview" to get a job....like suits......
the sideman doesn't do an "audition"...to get a job, like folks looking for a gig....

the sideman says

"just tell me what time to show up" at the OK Corral..............

My time as a sideman....it was the best of times, it was the worst of times.

But in looking back




Texas, there ain't nobody feelin' no pain

[Tele-Bob]

You guys kill me! pc, I was all into your post and nodding my head in agreement and then I read moonpie's. Dang it all, if he didn't just sum it up perfectly in his comic fashion!

[pc]

You're right man. He said the same thing I did, but way, WAY better. :yay

[moonpie]

Aw, shucks

[Franklin]

Damn moonpie! Another funny, genius analogy!

moonpie for president!

[melody]

There ain't nothing like it.
You strap on your shootin' iron. You step out onto the street....the sun is in your eyes, but you don't care because win, lose, or draw.....

women folk of all ages will remember how you looked in the spotlight.....




yes....the sideman is the true gunslinger of old......



the sideman doesn't do an "interview" to get a job....like suits......
the sideman doesn't do an "audition"...to get a job, like folks looking for a gig....

the sideman says

"just tell me what time to show up" at the OK Corral..............

My time as a sideman....it was the best of times, it was the worst of times.

But in looking back




Texas, there ain't nobody feelin' no pain

Great analogy!:2band

[Offshore Angler]

Bob, you're entering the level of being a whore like I am. I will play, take the money, and go home.

It gets really fun when you start doing recording work for other bands.

[Tele-Bob]

It's fun being a whore! This discussion came up last night at the gig. Some of my bandmates from two other bands were there and were talking. Some of their friends said, "how can you do this?!" "How can you just get up there and play like that?" I said, it's easier than you think. You just have to listen to the band's CD and not allow yourself any slop. You just have to get down and learn it, make some notes, and know that everything is going to be OK.

Doing this kind of work has opened my eyes to why some of my previous bands took forever to get off the ground. It's simply because the members didn't learn the material well enough at home and then came to rehearsal unprepared. They didn't take the time to nail the groove as recorded, and then play their part. This holds everyone back in that we are looking to hear certain cues that are missing and if you don't work it out right away, everyone begins to practice their mistakes, and then looks around wondering why it takes so long to get a tight band together. If everyone learns the material at home thoroughly, the band will sound like they've been together for years right from the first rehearsal. It's no mystery. Just good 'ol fashioned woodshedding.

There are many people who will quip, "yeah, but I want to play the song my own way" and that's cool if you're a player who is up to adding a certain style that works with the rest of the band and doesn't disrupt things. But there are many fledgling bands out there who are taking several months to get going while the groove flounders. They claim to want to do it "their way" too, but what's really going on is they simply haven't invested the time in learning the music. If they did, the band wouldn't be floundering. I know this because I have been all too guilty of it myself at times. When I changed, things changed.

Anyway, sorry to be so long winded. This thread just got me thinking.

[Offshore Angler]

Nope, you're spot on. And I honestly believe that "I want to do it my way" really means "I'm too lazy and/or untalented to do it right" for most people. Sure, there are exceptions, but hey, when SRV did an Albert King lick, he did it right. When he did a Jimi lick, he did it like Jimi. Hell, I've seen Keef rail on Chuck Berry for not doing a Chuck Berry lick correctly!

[Kap'n]

Nope, you're spot on. And I honestly believe that "I want to do it my way" really means "I'm too lazy and/or untalented to do it right!

There's some of that, certainly. In the rare case, where I need to learn a note-for-note lick, I play it with my inflection rather than the orignal/hit recording guitarist's inflection. Some of that is just being lazy.

However, in my opinion, if you want to hear it just like the record....

STAY HOME AND GO LISTEN TO THE DAMN RECORD!

I'm no freakin' human jukebox. People come out because they want to hear US. If they don't want to hear US, they leave. That means no repeat business for the band. We don't seem to have that problem.

Sitting in with a band is a great adrenalin rush. In some ways more exciting and satisfying than a performance in a polished band.

[Tele-Bob]

Agreed.

I draw the line though where the song is clearly a samba, shuffle, or rock tune and one of the guys in the group decides to "interpret" it as reggae or metal. There are of course limitations to "interpretation."

Once the groove is established, I always enjoy hearing skillful players push the boundaries of the groove. But I do not enjoy hearing half the band hitting a section of the song on the down beat while the other half is on the up take as they claim, "that's how I do it man!" That is laziness.

[Offshore Angler]

Well, of course you're right. But certain songs just beg for the "correct" solo. Most Eagles tunes, for example. I will sometimes start the solo off like the recording, then leave it a litte, but you need to bring it back and close it with the correct ending. Or lot's of Pure Prarie League.

Starting a solo is one thing, but closing it seems to be forgetten talent lately.

Wow! Bob, we jacked your thread, he, he.

[Tele-Bob]

Wow! Bob, we jacked your thread, he, he.

LOL! That's OK. It's still quite relative to the topic.

[moonpie]

Speaking of relatives, none of my good looking she cousins showed up for the Thanksgiving orgy. You talk about a boring get together. :toobad

[dez]

I always enjoy getting a call from friends asking to fill in. Sometimes it's friends of friends or a reference or something. I can't think of a fill in gig that hasn't been fun and rewarding.

Last week, I got a call from a guy I hadn't seen in two years. I got to the show the next day and it was with a drummer I jammed with once 4 years ago and another guitar player and bass player who I haven't played with in 2 years.

We had to do 4 hours and I had to sing 80% of the material. It went of great, I used my V the entire night which was cool, I got some cash, food and hung out chatting for an extra 2 hours after we were done. Fun night.

[IPLAYLOUD]

Wearing Plaid Shorts always helps me.

[Franklin]

Wearing Plaid Shorts always helps me.

Sorry Johnny, what you meant to say is IDRESSLOUD!

[Annie D.]

I disagree...

It depends on the venue: if you're playing in a club where they expect you to sound like the recording, then you try your best to do that. (nothing on earth is as stifling/boring as having to play that way night after night, for me).

If you're playing hip clubs, colleges, coffee houses, concerts, festivals etc., you can make it your own and let it take you where it wants to go.

[Tele-Bob]

When I sub I play it pretty straight unless I've been asked to get creative. Personally, I'd just as soon stick to the recorded version of the tune when I'm subbing since I have a hard enough just playing the songs without goin' and gettin' all creative with it and stuff. Maybe after a few more years I'll try it, but for now I'm happy to land on my feet. When subbing one must always remember, "it's all about the dismount."

[fezz parka]

I disagree...

It depends on the venue: if you're playing in a club where they expect you to sound like the recording, then you try your best to do that. (nothing on earth is as stifling/boring as having to play that way night after night, for me).

If you're playing hip clubs, colleges, coffee houses, concerts, festivals etc., you can make it your own and let it take you where it wants to go.

+1. :hee

[Annie D.]

Personally, I'd just as soon stick to the recorded version of the tune

some humans are technicians
some are creative forces

i hope to, one day, conjoin the two

Cold Dayin Hell
(double *smooch* to Fezz Baby)

[Annie D.]

:zzz