P90's Edumacate me!

[photoweborama]

I don't know anything about them. Tell me a nice, long, story!

[Tele-Bob]

P90s rule! That's all you really need to know. Just ask MIKEH.

Why do they rule?

Why does the mist rise off the lake in the morning?

Does knowing the answer make the mist any more enjoyable?

LOL! P90s sound great. Very thick, punchy, raunchy tones that have a nice tight low end coupled with very smooth highs. They are noisey though. Often moreso than a Strat or Tele p'up.

[Jim Collins]

Here are several examples of recorded P90 sounds. The first two Santana albums feature some terrific clean to overdriven P90 sounds. These are the two albums I always point to, first, when someone wants to know about P90 tones. For distorted P90 tones, listen to Mountain, particularly the live side of the Flowers of Evil album. I think those are Leslie West's best tones, and it is a very good example of distorted P90 tones. For very clean P90 tones, listen to early Freddy King, as in Hideaway. Freddy seemed to go for more trebly, clean tones, and the fact that he used metal finger picks is quite evident. And you can always try early Chuck Berry.

Of all of those, I think the two first Santana albums show P90s at their best, in both rhythm and lead work.

[Jesse S.]

Almost any Beatles song post-1966 will have John Lennon playing an Epiphone Casino with P-90s. That guitar was his consistent favorite electric guitar from the moment he acquired it.

One very distinctive example: John played the solo in "Get Back" with the Casino.

[NeoFauve]

Scotty Moore on early Elvis (Elvis '56 is a great disc!) stuff is a great example of clean P90 from h-e-double-hockey-sticks.

It's a hollowbody fat twang.

Pete Townsend on Live At Leeds!
Kerrrraaang!

[Kap'n]

P90's have lots more attack than a humbucker
P90's have more meat than a strat single coil.

tasty.:cb

[bscepter]

My main guitar is a P90-powered Gibson SG. It flat-out rocks. They have the meat and volume of a humbucker with the bite of a single-coil. The only drawback is, they're quite noisy. They're also really hot. They overdrive my AC30 at very low levels. But roll them back and their clean is nice and fat. Best of all worlds, IMHO.

Listen to The Who Live at Leeds for an example of P90s through a Hiwatt.

[TT100]

I love 'em. I have a historic Les Paul '54 ri (P-90s & stoptail) that can go from chimey clean bell tones to grinding sustained od with a twist of the volume knobs. I had a Townshend SG that was my first P90 guitar and it was superb but I wanted a Les Paul so it had to go.

P90s are very responsive to your attack (good or bad) and also to the guitar's volume and tone controls. When Seth Lover developed the humbucker (PAF) for Gibson he wanted to retain all the characteristics of the P90 but eliminate induced noise.

Leslie West, Santana and Townshend are always given as examples of P90 tone but that's a bit one-sided. Great examples yes but here are a few more.

Check out T-Bone Walker and early Freddie King. Sister Rosetta Tharp too while you're at it.

Try them. When you do try them, run them clean first. You'll be amazed.

TT

[photoweborama]

Ok.. I get it now. Rats.. now that's another area I have to explore.. How am I gonna tell my wife about this...

[Bongolation]

You might axe about this over on the LPF.

Remember, a P-90 is a specific GIBSON pickup. If it's not a Gibson pickup, it's not a P-90. People ignorantly call any "soapbar" or "dogear" single-coil a P-90, and they're grossly wrong.

If I remember correctly, there have been two basic P-90s over the decades. The P-90s in my 1963 ES-330TDC are quite different than those in my 2003 SG "Classic."

[Kap'n]

You might axe about this over on the LPF.

Remember, a P-90 is a specific GIBSON pickup. If it's not a Gibson pickup, it's not a P-90. People ignorantly call any "soapbar" or "dogear" single-coil a P-90, and they're grossly wrong.

But by that definition, a "Humbucking" pickup is specifically a Gibson pickup, too, since that's what Gibson called them in '57. What does one call the Duncan, Dimarzio, Lollar, Mightly Mite, EMG, Schaller, Fralin, Bill Lawrence, OBL, Fender, Bartolini etc. dual coil pickups that fit into a "Gibson Humbucking Pickup" sized slot?

Insisting that "Only Gibson Makes a P-90" simply means that Gibson marketing is doing it's job well. Especially considering that Gibson has yet to apply for a trademark on "P90" or "P-90."

It just take the rest of the world a few years more to catch up to the fact than the P90 design is way cool.

[TT100]

Pre Carlos, Pete & Leslie.








TT

[Bongolation]

Insisting that "Only Gibson Makes a P-90" simply means that Gibson marketing is doing it's job well. Especially considering that Gibson has yet to apply for a trademark on "P90" or "P-90."

I stand 100% by what I said...though I do find it pretty amazing that the vexatiously litigious Gibson hasn't found a way to retroactively claim the P-90 name, given such stunts as FMIC's claim to own the letters "P" and "T" when they refer to instruments.

"P-90" was a specific Gibson model number and still is.

The humbucker analogy is invalid because there are a large number of real Gibson humbucking designs, which has rendered the name generic and largely meaningless beyond designating a dual-coil, noise-cancelling pickup of some sort. This is not the case with the P-90, which is a single specific Gibson pickup. To call a generic soapbar a P-90 is like calling a generic dual coil a "Burstbucker" or "R490."

P-90 is now used by the ignorant to refer to ANY single-coil pickup that merely cosmetically resembles an actual P-90 of any vintage, irrespective of what's under the cover.

This inevitably gives rise to discussions wherein people complain of how badly P-90s sound, when in fact the pickup is some mystery Taiwanese unit with a soapbar appearance and little actual technical similarity to an actual Gibson P-90 pickup...or conversely how "awesome" [shudder] P-90s sound, when the actual pickups are custom-shop Duncans with likewise limited similarity to a real P-90.

Call 'em "soapbars" or "dogears" or "improved P-90 design" or whatever, but there's only one current Gibson P-90.

[Kap'n]

Call 'em "soapbars" or "dogears" or "improved P-90 design" or whatever, but there's only one current Gibson P-90.

Which, I presume, is different than the previous Gibson P-90 design.

Sure there are generic crappy pickups that share the same shape as The Venerated Gibson P-90Pickup. Likewise, there are others that sound as good, if not better.

Just like humbuckers.

I stand by my genericism.

[mgade]

Johnny Thunders' an aptly named P90 jockey, seek out L.A.M.F it's...

[grito]

Ruder tone than a humbucker. I have always strayed from single coil pups because of their lack of grittiness and humbuckers for their lack of definition. P-90 are right in between those two tones.

And I also think that P-90 is now a generic term like "humbucker", or "strat". Any pup in a dog ear or a soapbar is called a P-90 by anyone who is familiar with guitars. Get over it, or argue that any single cut guitar is a Gibson, or any "strat" guitar is a Fender.

[photoweborama]

My son's second guitar is an Epi SG special. Maybe I can route it for a P-90. It has a really hot humbucker in the bridge now... Hum.. I don't know how to use a router.... I have to route the body and the pickguard....

[fezz parka]

Just get some Phat Cats from Duncan. They'll get you there without all of the routing...

[Gravity Jim]

And fezz beats me by seconds. Phat Cats fit in a bucker route. Isn't there another P-90-style pup that doies the same?

[fezz parka]

I've got the Rio Bastards in my jazzbox. They're convincing but just a little too middy. Kent Armstrong makes a 'bucker sized P90 that sounds pretty good too. Bill Lawrence makes a noiseless one (I think it's noiseless) that's pretty refined sounding. P90's shouldn't sound refined IMO. They should be kinda nasty.

[Kap'n]

Phat Cats fit in a bucker route. Isn't there another P-90-style pup that doies the same?

Gibson has what they call a P-94, which I don't think they've bothered to trademark either.:lol

Harmonic Design has what they call a Z-90, and I think there are a couple of others. Most of them are big single coils, but I don't think they use the traditional P-90 design of two bar magnets loading six screws.

I don't know what's inside a Phat Cat, but they do sound luscious.

[fezz parka]

There's SKG too. I think they are built like a trad P90 w/ the bar mags...

[BradKM]

Bill Lawrence makes a noiseless one (I think it's noiseless) that's pretty refined sounding. P90's shouldn't sound reined IMO. They should be kinda nasty.

I've got the Lawrence L-490 in one of my guits. He suggests that you use 250K pots with it. Being lazy, I left the original 500Ks in for close to a year before rewiring the guitar. Going to the 250K introduced a lot of the "rudeness" that had been missing. Still, being noiseless, they are a bit more tame than your average soapbar or P-90 variant. They also compress a bit more when overdriven.

I still like it though.

I've also got a Harmonic Design S-90 in one my Tele bridge slots...it's a Tele pup voiced like a P-90...I'd never call it a P-90, but it can get really close.

Lot's of guys rave about the HD Z-90s. If they're anything like my S-90, then I wouldn't hesitate for one moment to use them.

[tterp]

Gilmours solo on "Another Brick in the Wall part 2" is P90 too.

/tterp

[Jesse S.]

Anyone know about the P-100? This was the single-coil pickup on the Gibson J-160E. It looks a lot like a Strat pickup. Is it closer to a Strat single-coil or to a P-90?

[Kap'n]

Anyone know about the P-100? This was the single-coil pickup on the Gibson J-160E. It looks a lot like a Strat pickup. Is it closer to a Strat single-coil or to a P-90?

The pickup on the original J-160 was a regular P90, mounted underneath the top.

The P-100 is a Gibson stacked coil humbucker, designed to fit into a P-90 sized slot. Most folks don't think it sounds like a P-90. I'm not sure whether or not it's shipped in the J-160 reissue.

[MIKEH]

Just to expound on what Tele-Bob said, P-90s (and clones of P-90s) RULE!
Everyone else here has pretty much covered the technical and historical info. All I want to add is, once you get used to that sound, the only thing you'll want to use your Strat for, is positions 2 and 4.

[photoweborama]

Well, if I put it in the SG, jr. There is no neck pickup. I'd have to route to put one in, and figure out how to fit a switch in there.

[pc]

Mark, I'd say try to put one in the neck of a Tele if you have one. You'd need to buy a pickguard routed for a P-90, but the rest of it should fit fine. The one that was modded into my ash Tele when i bought it just needed a little piece of foam set into the neck rout (which on American Tele's is a humbucker rout) that the P-90 sat on. The wood screws then went down into the wood of the guitar just a little bit.

I recorded this familiar cover with that P-90 Tele. Most of it uses my Fulltone FD2, and the second half of my solo uses my Vintage Rat pedal.

[TT100]

P90's shouldn't sound refined IMO. They should be kinda nasty.

Nasty?

They should grind like a 70 year old gin soaked, seamed fishnet & stilleto'd peroxide blond fan dancer with stretch marks on her lips.

;)

Not that I've ever met such a lady.

[sabby]

And fezz beats me by seconds. Phat Cats fit in a bucker route. Isn't there another P-90-style pup that doies the same?

Fralin has two new designs, but they seem to be too new for reviews.

[Tele-Bob]

MOVED

[Offshore Angler]

P-90 is now used by the ignorant to refer to ANY single-coil pickup that merely cosmetically resembles an actual P-90 of any vintage, irrespective of what's under the cover.

Man, am I ignorant!

We even called 'em P90's on Mosrite and VOX Sidejacks when I was a kid. And that was a long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...

[Tele-Bob]

I think the main thing missing from Bongolation's argument is "what is it exactly that makes a P90 different from others that bear the same name?"

Bongo, if you have specific information about this I'm sure it would help clarify your position and we might all learn something.

[clayville]

PC: nice whack at Oye, man... :yay

(reviewing jams wherever I go!)

[Falstaff]

Mark, I'd say try to put one in the neck of a Tele if you have one. You'd need to buy a pickguard routed for a P-90, but the rest of it should fit fine. The one that was modded into my ash Tele when i bought it just needed a little piece of foam set into the neck rout (which on American Tele's is a humbucker rout) that the P-90 sat on. The wood screws then went down into the wood of the guitar just a little bit.

I recorded this familiar cover with that P-90 Tele. Most of it uses my Fulltone FD2, and the second half of my solo uses my Vintage Rat pedal.

Nice guitar and playing...what do you have in the bridge and how doth it balance with the P90???

[Skip]

so how would P90's sound in a LP Special? Would the body be good for that? Fralin P90's or Gibson?
Nice clip PC - sound great!

[Kap'n]

so how would P90's sound in a LP Special?

[mkg]

pc, what fine playing! :yay :yay :yay
And your guitar is a beaut, wish I had one like that.

[pc]

Thanks for the nice comments guys. I just thought that recording in particular really emphasizes the sound of that P-90. Falstaff, the bridge pickup in that shot (modded by the original owner along with the P-90) was a Rio Grande "Muy Grande." It's a really amazing sounding pickup, but not in any way Tele-like IMO, and more to your question, not at all well-balanced with the P-90.


That guitar now houses my C/S Texas Special pickups and a red-pearl pickguard. I will eventually pair that P-90 with something else, because it really does have a mystique and vibe all its own.

In the end, Photoweborama hits the nail on the head. As soon as I heard it I realized I needed a dedicated P-90 guitar in addition to the single-coil and humbucker guitars. Dang it all. :)