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Thread: the real truth about mexican pickups

  1. #121
    Forum Member telecast's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckocaster
    i would just like to say that these arguments of that "i shouldn't sound the best i can because it doesn't makethat much of a difference in a band context" is complete bullshit.
    Well, ok, but I don't think anyone said that. We all want to sound the best we can, the question is, "will putting in a booteek set of Pups that cost half as much as my guitar accomplish that?" The answer is no. Like anything else, there are diminishing returns. While a $100 set of pups may sound 5 times better than a set of pups that cost $20, will a $300 set of pups sound 15 times better? Highly Doubtful. Now, put those same pickups in a band setting. How much of a difference to they really make once you're off the couch and all that noise is happening around you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tele-Bob
    I have spent a long time developing a few different sounds for specific applications. I have my rock rig, my blues rig, my clean rig, and my "ready for anything" rig.

    I have devoted a lot of time and effort to coming up with guitar and amp combinations that work best for the situation I'm going to be playing in. That's why I have several guitars and amps.
    And that's cool, and I'm the same way as far as favoring a specific rig for a certain type of job. But let's be very realistic about it: We do this because it makes US happy, not to please the audience. You could show up with the exact opposite of what you think is your perfect rig, play a job, and no one would know the difference. You could take a Mid 80's Crate and a Lotus LP knock-off, and as long as you play like you mean it and have fun, there's not a soul in the audience that would question your...um...tone.


    Quote Originally Posted by Plugger
    (And I bet I could swap pups three times in the evening and no-one, apart from me, would be the wiser.)
    I think you're right. Besides a few musicians that may be in attendance, no one would have a clue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore Angler
    but music is about what you say and the attitude you bring it with. It's about delivering the message.
    And that, ladies and germs, sums it all up. No need to swap parts and guitars endlessly trying to find that all-elusive 'tone', just play from your heart.

    Disclaimer: There are a LOT of people out there who mod or do projects as a hobby, myself included. That's cool, nothing in this post suggests that anyone change their ways. If that's the thing that makes you happy, you should by all means swap pickups to your heart's content. My post is strictly from a playing and performance perspective.
    Last edited by telecast; 08-30-2005 at 05:56 AM.
    A friend in need is a good reason to screen your calls.

  2. #122
    Forum Member Tele-Bob's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    What everyone needs to do here is write, "in my own personal experience..................." and then this all makes much more sense.

    To some people, pleasing the audience is what it's all about. To others, producing a sound that they personally dig regardless of audience considerations is what it's all about.

    And to others, blowing the roof off their private bedroom at home is the epitome of music nirvana.

    No one is wrong unto themselves. They might not cross over into other peoples neighborhoods so well, but no one is wrong here. We all just have different criteria.
    If you're bored, you're not groovin'.

  3. #123
    Forum Member telecast's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    Quote Originally Posted by Tele-Bob
    hudpucker, we sometimes cut a little slack and try to assume the best in eachother. If my comments came off as flippant, too bad. So I don't write "in my personal experience" before every single post, it should be assumed. I always try to be helpful wherever I can. You don't see me making a point of condeming someone elses comments unless thay are blatantly rude. If you don't like my opinion, tough shit. Don't read it. I get so tired of this crap.

    Hmmmmm
    A friend in need is a good reason to screen your calls.

  4. #124
    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    Quote Originally Posted by telecast
    But let's be very realistic about it: We do this because it makes US happy, not to please the audience.

    Whohohohoa! Back the truck up there amigo!

    That's the only reason I play. They're my customer and I'm being paid to entertain them. I damn well better be playing to please them, or get my ass off the stage.

    Playing guitar is a giant PITA. It's loud, it's hard work, and you work crap hours. If I couldn't make the people happy and make a couple bucks what would be the point? It's a job.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

  5. #125
    Forum Member telecast's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    Ok, and how does that differ from what I said?

    If you take my statement in context, you'll note I'm talking about putting together certain rigs for certain jobs. The audience will be just as happy (and entertained) if you play your Tele through a DRRI or your Les Paul through a Marshall. We put together 'blues rigs' or 'rock rigs' or 'country rigs' for our own edification.

    So again, how does your statement apply to mine?
    A friend in need is a good reason to screen your calls.

  6. #126
    Forum Member Tele-Bob's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    telecast, the guy disected my post line by line and made an issue out of each statement. It makes me crazy when people do that!
    In this instance, my comment being taken out of context and transplanted into this thread sort of dilutes the meaning here. You can say it applies, but as the person who wrote it, I can tell it doesn't fit here. I was simply attempting to sum up the fact that 3 people all gave strong statements about the same topic. And they're all right about what they've said and their approach to playing music. It was my hope that pointing this out might clarify the situation. I think it's really cool that three people can get such completely different rewards out of playing. I assume the best in the people who made their comments. My being one of them, I was just trying to tie it all together in harmony and site the similarities instead of the differences.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tele-Bob
    telecast, we sometimes cut a little slack and try to assume the best in eachother. If my comments came off as flippant, too bad. So I don't write "in my personal experience" before every single post, (although I did in the previous one), ;) it should be assumed. I always try to be helpful wherever I can. You don't see me making a point of condeming someone elses comments unless thay are blatantly rude. If you don't like my opinion, tough shit. Don't read it. I get so tired of this crap. :rofl :lol
    If you're bored, you're not groovin'.

  7. #127
    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    Oh, OK, I see your point. I missed the context. You are right, and I apologize. In fact, in your context, you are exactly right.

    I'm a dumbass sometimes.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

  8. #128
    Forum Member telecast's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    Bob, I honestly cannot see how me posting your quote is out of context. It seems you're asking each of us to write 'In my experience', when just a few posts ago you said it's tough potatos if you don't do it yourself.

    I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your comment. Just because something is right for one of us doesn't mean it will work for everyone. We all tend to forget that from time to time.

    OA: We are all dumbasses sometimes.

    And that, my friends, might possibly be the single most important point made in this entire thread!
    A friend in need is a good reason to screen your calls.

  9. #129
    Forum Member Tele-Bob's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    I was simply trying to explain how saying "in my personal experience" would change the complexion of this particular situation. Does that mean that it applies globally to everything I have ever said? No.

    Is this "your personal experience?" LOL
    If you're bored, you're not groovin'.

  10. #130
    Forum Member NeoFauve's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    Digging how you sound when you play can make you want to play. It can lead to play better just due to sheer enjoyment. It can make you explore the instrument or search for more songs to play. Having an idea for a song can make you after a certain sound.
    They're all connected and can get you juiced enough to want take it before an audience, or disappear into your man cave whipping up your concoctions
    You can shuffle the (tone/chops/gear...) elements in any order for all kinds of reasons.
    It's all good.
    "Well, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."
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  11. #131
    Forum Member sabby's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoFauve
    Digging how you sound when you play can make you want to play.
    And there's the rub. I don't understand why folks have to say that this doesn't matter. It's like saying my subjectivity is objectively correct. Or, my feelings are universally relevant wheras yours are simple emotions.

    But then again, soon as it starts a thread goes to three + pages.

  12. #132
    Forum Member Kap'n's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    Quote Originally Posted by sabby
    Or, my feelings are universally relevant wheras yours are simple emotions.
    Well, in my case it's true, but for the rest of you rabble. ;) :bwa
    Several guitars in different colors
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  13. #133
    Forum Member Tele-Bob's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    It's all interconnected. When I feel like I'm putting out a good sound, I play better. In fact, a great sound gives me more places to go. An inappropriate sound for the style of music I'm playing limits my options.
    If you're bored, you're not groovin'.

  14. #134
    Forum Member NeoFauve's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    Ironically, in Mexico, quite often they clip the same cheezy chome pickups onto their guitarons, bajo sextos, treses or whatever.
    That just dawned on me.
    "Well, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."
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  15. #135
    Forum Member mgade's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoFauve
    Digging how you sound when you play can make you want to play.
    That just about nails it IMO.

    And lemmi say - I admire T-B's style around here a lot. He ain't the only one I admire, but I figure a little explicit support is in place here. Often I've read posts fired his way that makes me wonder what I would have answered, but he seems able to land most in a civilized way. I have also been around long enough to watch him change opinion on a few subjects, which is cool. Not that he shouldn't be kept to his word Just remember to "assume the best" and that we are not writing legal stuff her, but chatting away in a relaxed way? (So allow a little leeway?) (He, he or artistic freedom? :spin )

  16. #136
    Forum Member Constellation80's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    You do notice differnce in the quality of sound of pickups in a band more then ever. The reason being is you play that much louder. It's all expedential.
    You take a Gibson and you take a Samick and play it through a lil 15 watt pratice amp. And you might not find much of a Differnce. but the min you put it through a 100watt amp the differnce will be night and day. No one wants an tinny sterile toy sounding guitar.
    Infact i just bought a cheapo samick tele wannabe. Im gonna try to repot the picups but if that doesn't work there the first and only thing being replaced.
    I got it for 20 bucks, and I don't think it's nice enough to warrant new tunners and other upgrades. But I know I can't live with the sound of 6 dollar pickups. So If I find a decent set for 30 bucks im happy. Anthings gotta be better then whats in there now.

  17. #137
    Forum Member Kap'n's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation80
    You do notice differnce in the quality of sound of pickups in a band more then ever.
    You're right. It's all in how they sit in a mix. Well, some of it is how it sits in a mix, the other part is how it picks up nuance, and how well that transfers to the mix too.
    Several guitars in different colors
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  18. #138
    Forum Member Tele-Bob's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    Volume, the great de-cloaking device. The true test of any p'up if that's where you happen to be playing. If you happen to be playing in your living room, then that is where your p'ups need to sound best.

    mgade, you da man.
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  19. #139
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    My last Strat was a very nice Japanese `62 RI Strat, which was a great sounding and great playing guitar. When I found my current AM RI, I was going the keep the Japanese RI for a good back up on stage. THATS where the glaring difference sounded up. One night I broke a string on the AM< and mid song, swithched to the JP axe. BAM!!! The difference in the clarity on stage was startling. Fuller, brighter, and clearly more `in the mix` than the Les Paul on the other side of the stage. The JP Strat was ok, but the AM was way better. The JP got sold some time after that, cuz it never got played. Now I have the Godin with P 90`s as a second guitar.


    CT.:ahem

  20. #140
    Forum Member Tele-Bob's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    P90s rule!
    If you're bored, you're not groovin'.

  21. #141
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    Quote Originally Posted by telecast
    Moreover, a lot of people tinker because that's all they have to do. I'm going to hazard a wild guess that a HUGE part of aftermarket parts sales are couch players. When you sit home and evaluate the guitar all day, you're going to hear things you don't like, real or imagined. 99% of those things would never be discernable in a band situation.

    I have never ever changed pickups in a guitar I bought to play. I have changed them in guitars I bought for a project. Once they're in, the chance of me changing them again is slim to none. I have never had anyone come up to me and complain about the way I sound, or suggest I need different pickups. There's a point of diminishing returns with anything, and IMO, you've reached it well before you spend multiple hundreds of dollars for a set of Tele pups.

    Discounting a guitar that doesn't sound good is a personal preference, thanks. Changing pickups is no guarantee the guitar will ever sound the way you want.
    Anything else?
    Mate,can you turn that thing down?

  22. #142
    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    90% of the problems are amp problems, not pickup problems. The speaker will have a bigger effect than the pups. The guitar is a signal generating device. People hear the AMP, not the guitar.

    Here is how the myths start:
    Johnny Jammer or Billy Bedroom has a guitar. They want to "sound better". They get caught in the tone trap. So Johnny Jammer tells Billy Bedroom to buy some Seymour Duncan whatevers. Billy does. Billy installs them and puts new strings on the axe in the process. The SD's are higher output than the stock pickups. So when he plugs in, he hears MORE than he did before because the higher output pickups gave him a volume increase. he can hear better now and since he hears more, he declares the pickups rule! Wow! What a difference!!!!!!

    Well, maybe, but odds are if he had turned the volume up on the amp with the old pups he would have got similar results with new spaghetti on the axe.

    And Johnny Jammer, who always plays with his amp on 5 because "Thats the sweer spot" says they cut better and are more articulate, but really, they're just louder.

    Plus, the original pups have not been adjusted. The new ones were tweaked to find the best sound.

    But there's a problem here. A major problem. As we went up in pickup output, we either a) got louder or b) turned the amp down. Mistake. You want to cut through the mix? Well, the preamp section won't get you there. You do that with the POWER TUBES. Preamp leads to DGS. You want to cut through you work the power tubes and get them pumping. You want the speaker to break up to some degree to warm the sound (and add cut as well). Nice rounded sine waves get lost in the mix. Squared off clipped ones drill right through. That's why we like tube amps. You can overdrive the power section and clip the output stage.

    But the hotter pickups often work against us. We are forced to turn down the power section now and lose all the benefits of the power tubes.

    That's what separates Tele players from other players IMHO. Tele players play THE AMP. You are forced to.

    Having said all that, yes, there is a minimum acceptable level pups need to meet, and often the import cheap guitars don't meet them. But once you have good stuff in a good axe with a great amp, the gains in pups are minor and more in the players head.

    I gotta be honest with you. When I'm out at a job I really can't tell the difference between Antiquites or CS's or VN's once the band starts. And I can't listen to another player and tell you what pickups are in his guitar. Other than one Tele I have that I just can't deal with, all my guitars sound good to me. Each one has a unique voice, but it's all good. They all sound pretty much like my amp with very minor differnces.
    Last edited by Offshore Angler; 10-30-2005 at 06:31 AM.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

  23. #143
    Forum Member Tele-Bob's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore Angler
    90% of the problems are amp problems, not pickup problems. The speaker will have a bigger effect than the pups. The guitar is a signal generating device. People hear the AMP, not the guitar.
    I agree, but this is only one scenario.

    What about when you have a great amp and all your guitars sound terrific through that amp except one? You love the way that particular guitar plays and feels, so you try to enhance the sound by replacing the p'ups so it will be elevated to the sound quality of your other guitars.

    Yes, the amp does play a HUGE roll, but once that is a known quantity. At that point, changing guitars and their components becomes the focus.

    That said, I have rarely ever seen a high quality, pro-level guitar that was saved by a new set of p'ups. Sure, I could go out and shop for the ideal amp to compliment that particular guitar, and to some that is a worthwhile endeavor. But not to most.

    I am fortunate enough to have a small core group of guitars and amps that I am totally thrilled with. All my other stuff is for experimentation and 4 out of 5 dentists surveyed have proven (at least to me), that not all guitar get along with all amps. There are certain combinations of my gear that never leave the house for this reason.

    Although several good examples have been shared here, they really are non-conclusive in the grand scheme of things. All I can say is, "when you find the guitar/amp combo that has the magic, take it home and enjoy it!"
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  24. #144
    Forum Member bscepter's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore Angler
    90% of the problems are amp problems, not pickup problems. The speaker will have a bigger effect than the pups. The guitar is a signal generating device. People hear the AMP, not the guitar.

    Here is how the myths start:
    Johnny Jammer or Billy Bedroom has a guitar. They want to "sound better". They get caught in the tone trap. So Johnny Jammer tells Billy Bedroom to buy some Seymour Duncan whatevers. Billy does. Billy installs them and puts new strings on the axe in the process. The SD's are higher output than the stock pickups. So when he plugs in, he hears MORE than he did before because the higher output pickups gave him a volume increase. he can hear better now and since he hears more, he declares the pickups rule! Wow! What a difference!!!!!!

    Well, maybe, but odds are if he had turned the volume up on the amp with the old pups he would have got similar results with new spaghetti on the axe.

    And Johnny Jammer, who always plays with his amp on 5 because "Thats the sweer spot" says they cut better and are more articulate, but really, they're just louder.

    Plus, the original pups have not been adjusted. The new ones were tweaked to find the best sound.

    But there's a problem here. A major problem. As we went up in pickup output, we either a) got louder or b) turned the amp down. Mistake. You want to cut through the mix? Well, the preamp section won't get you there. You do that with the POWER TUBES. Preamp leads to DGS. You want to cut through you work the power tubes and get them pumping. You want the speaker to break up to some degree to warm the sound (and add cut as well). Nice rounded sine waves get lost in the mix. Squared off clipped ones drill right through. That's why we like tube amps. You can overdrive the power section and clip the output stage.

    But the hotter pickups often work against us. We are forced to turn down the power section now and lose all the benefits of the power tubes.

    That's what separates Tele players from other players IMHO. Tele players play THE AMP. You are forced to.

    Having said all that, yes, there is a minimum acceptable level pups need to meet, and often the import cheap guitars don't meet them. But once you have good stuff in a good axe with a great amp, the gains in pups are minor and more in the players head.

    I gotta be honest with you. When I'm out at a job I really can't tell the difference between Antiquites or CS's or VN's once the band starts. And I can't listen to another player and tell you what pickups are in his guitar. Other than one Tele I have that I just can't deal with, all my guitars sound good to me. Each one has a unique voice, but it's all good. They all sound pretty much like my amp with very minor differnces.
    I agree with this scenario -- to a point. There are many factors in the tone chain. The amp is a huge one for sure (and, drilling down even further, the output transformer and speakers, which together are probably 50% of the amp's tone).

    But, I'm here to tell you, the p'ups do make a difference. The drastic example is the difference between my original MIM p'ups and the CS TS's I just soldered in. Now, I know the fibre bobbin and cloth wire don't make a whole lot of tonal difference -- they're just "coolness" icing on the cake -- but they do definitely sound better to my ears.

    And, yes, they're louder. And louder is better at propagating low frequencies. But the tone is definitely "sweeter," for what it's worth. Now, of course, all this is subjective. Your mileage may vary.

    The other major factor is the player and his or her ears. I see guys with high-gain amps and tons of pedals, and that works for some. Personally, I get different tones by adjusting the volume on the guitar and picking differently. That, and I use a germanium boost pedal for leads...

  25. #145
    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    First off, I believe 90% of the pickup phenomina is mass hysteria. It's like UFO's, nobody has ever had one shred of evidence and yet there are people that will swear up and down they exist and that it's a conspiracy. People beleive what they want to beleive. They have a belief system and that's the lens they view the world through regardless of the facts.

    When some dude pops for $200 worth of pickups for a $300 guitar they in my experience, think the guitar MUST sound better and so it does to them.

    And the most amusing thing to me about the whole deal is that guys spend untold money on boutique pups TRYING TO RE-CREATE THE SOUND OF THE JUNKY STOCK ONES guys like Jimi used!

    Think about that for a minute.

    bscpter - I would think that louder is better for high frequencies. Lower frequencies contain more power for a given amplitude (more area under the curve) and carry farther than higher. Otherwise the sky wouldn't be blue, it would be red, correct? Or we would use HF to communicate with subs and not ULF.(?)

    But it takes more POWER to create the lower freqency sound wave.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

  26. #146
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    I love it when somebody resurrects a long-dead thread, and people respond to it with exactly the same post they wrote 90 posts earlier. Or even better, when their opinion is exactly the opposite of what they wrote 90 posts (and 4 months) earlier.

    Not that necessarily happened here; I'm just sayin' is all. Internet forums are a blast. :lol

  27. #147
    Forum Member Tele-Bob's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    ............and the coolest part is that it shows how people change. It shows how, perhaps through reading what others have written, a new idea was formed and something was learned that caused a person to change their mind and grow. This is a good thing. If everyone were to remain the same and all things were absolute, well it just wouldn't be much fun now would it?
    If you're bored, you're not groovin'.

  28. #148
    Forum Member SomeTimDude's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    Quote Originally Posted by Tele-Bob
    ............and the coolest part is that it shows how people change. It shows how, perhaps through reading what others have written, a new idea was formed and something was learned that caused a person to change their mind and grow. This is a good thing. If everyone were to remain the same and all things were absolute, well it just wouldn't be much fun now would it?

    Yup, if it wasn't for that, we'd still start balling and throw a fit when the juice cup spilled and there wasn't any left. Well, I've known a few people that still do that.

  29. #149
    Forum Member bscepter's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

    bscpter - I would think that louder is better for high frequencies. Lower frequencies contain more power for a given amplitude (more area under the curve) and carry farther than higher. Otherwise the sky wouldn't be blue, it would be red, correct? Or we would use HF to communicate with subs and not ULF.(?)

    But it takes more POWER to create the lower freqency sound wave.

    See here...

  30. #150
    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    bscepter, that is not appropriate or follow the logic. I was referring to the sound pressure and the energy. The perceived sound is not the same as the actual sound pressure. Interestingly, the human ear reacts as a logarithmic device.

    However, using the graph of phons, you'll see that at guitar frequencies the graph is essentially flat in the db range at which we perform - so we can say the low notes carry just as well. Also notice the ordinate axis of the graph is logarithmic - which is greatly exaggerating the curve, And snce the absyssa is in db, it is logarithmic as well. So you're looking at a log/log graph. It would appear almost totally flat in a lin/lin graph. But hanging out at 80 db or so you'll notice the ear compensates. Pretty cool eh? But you perceive music with more than your ears. Lower frequencies can be felt as much as heard. Guitars up at the 20th fret don't make the tables shake, but the low E will. The lower frequencies carry significantly more power. Orders of magnitude more.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

  31. #151
    Forum Member bscepter's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    I'm just saying that lower frequencies are more difficult to hear at lower volumes.

  32. #152
    Forum Member FenderBoy's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    I thought the MIM pups in my Jimmie Vaughan buzzed way too much...so I kept dropping pups into it....Lace, noiseless, etc.

    Finally I put the original pups back in it and it sounds just grand.

  33. #153
    Forum Member Plugger's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    Quote Originally Posted by FenderBoy
    Finally I put the original pups back in it and it sounds just grand.
    And let me guess, that's about how much the whole exercise cost as well? :rofl

    -Mark

  34. #154
    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    Quote Originally Posted by bscepter
    I'm just saying that lower frequencies are more difficult to hear at lower volumes.
    Well, according to the chart that's only true if you're wispering! If you've ever lived in the city and heard the kids with their car stereos...
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

  35. #155
    Forum Member seagate's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    Woops, didn't realise how old this thread was. Nothing left to be said...



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  36. #156
    Forum Member Cheapstrat's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Kinman
    Maybe it makes some wealthier, but the people I know that have had their businesses ruined by offshore sourcing by their good customers. Chinese consumers can't afford western products, hell even many westerners can't afford them. And when 1000M Chinese all start driving cars around the greenhouse effect may make all this discussion moot. But I do take your point about fallacy of composition. Yeah, maybe I should see it differently but recently I saw a lot of disturbing stuff and it does tend to ruffle feathers. Lets digress back to pickups and guitars huh!!!
    The discussions that can erupt from these "interesting" times we live in hey Chris? From local concerns to global economics...we "spoiled" westerners want our material stuff...and we want it dirt cheap...we feed the demise of wetern industry really.

  37. #157
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    PRS is a perfect example. The guitars are fantasically made, look great and play like butter. But to many, the pickups don't cut it. So you swap them for your Timbucker/Pearly Gates/WHY. Same with Les Paul Historics. Often, a manufacturer has to supply pickups for a run of thousands of guitars. They have to balance price and supply. Even if Gibson wanted to install boutique pickups in their Historic guiatrs for the year 2006, who could supply them with enough without turning into another mass producer?

  38. #158
    Forum Member Stratoclutter's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    My 2 Cents :

    1st : Chris Kinman is a god

    2nd : I change pickups for these reasons :

    1 - Noise Reduction
    2 - A certain era tone I want my instrument to emulate

    Beyond that wether Kinmans, Duncans, Lollars

    or even Shnitzels...

    It's a matter of taste
    Bananas

  39. #159
    Forum Member refin's Avatar
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    Only read the first page of this thread,so I don't know all that has been said (maybe I missed out on some great flames:lol).
    As a player,collector of sorts (and I do mean "sorts") and teacher,I play alot of the aforementioned "strat" and "tele" style guitars.....from the cheapest Affinity model to the Custom Shop Droolmeisters.
    One thing is for sure-------I have heard the bottom feeders sound incredible at times,and the Beemer models sound as sterile as disco music.It's all about the amp,player,and what tune you are playing!
    Think about David Lindley and the Kent,Teisco,Silvertone,and Danelectro mutants that he plays---he did for those models what Page,Clapton,Greenie,and Beck did for the 'burst.
    I've had students plug in an Affinity guitar that turned my head--great pup to pup smoothness,quack in positions 2 and 4,and clarity! I'm certainly not knocking more expensive pups,I use them myself.....but as I said before,it depends on the tune,amp,and player.The same Affinity strat/tele that sounded great on one style/tune sounded like litterbox fodder on another. :rl
    "My flesh and my heart fail...but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever."
    PS. 73:26

    MY JAMS--
    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...&content=music

  40. #160
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    Re: the real truth about mexican pickups

    Wrote Constellation 80
    They pretty much cornered the small car market. they where 2nd to america in Car production. But through mismanagement, poor products.....
    I can't argue about crappy cars, but then we don't have far we can drive anyway. And perhaps from our perspective there is some sense of 'been there, seen it, done it, got the Tee Shirt' when it comes having led the world in heavy industry and manufacturing. But before you write the 'English' off as no hopers the current statistic for significant world inventions still ranks the UK as being the source of 72% of them (although we only bring 2% of the 72% to the market ourselves). And while we no longer build Dreadnought's, and the once vast steel industry is no more, we can still kick the worlds ass when it comes to high tech industries, research, and financial services. It would seem our main advantage however is that we are not called 'Canadians' and live in a country best known for midges.
    Peak District, Derbyshire, England

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