I will be commissioning 2 necks from USA Customer Guitars and I have the choice of using their fretwire or Warmoth's golden copper alloy (without nickel).
I would like the frets to last as long as possible. Which would last longer, technically?
Many thanks.
Stainless steel. Good luck dressing the frets though...:hee
Thought Stainless steel was so hard, you NEVER had to dress the frets. :hee
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Is there a *big* difference in long-term reliability between the two? I'm asking, because so far, every neck I've owned, the frets have been filed in about a year's or two's time.
Stainless steel is harder than strings, so they won't wear much, if any at all.
Not sure of the copper. Copper is a very soft metal. I can't see it working at all for frets.
Last edited by photoweborama; 03-04-2005 at 09:45 PM.
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I've had a '57 RI Strat since 1984. I've played the crap out of it, and the frets are original. They've been dressed 3 times in 21 years. The guitar plays like it did the day I bought it.
To put it simply, I have no idea what you're talking about.:hee
Seriously, the hardest frets you can get are stainless steel.
Different playing styles, different wear, I guess. I play *hard*...and often. So the frets wear down *fast!*
If you guys are telling me copper frets would wear down even quicker, I won't bother, since it wouldn't be worth it for me.
I'm not so sure "copper" is the correct description of the gold colored fret-wire. Regular silver colored fret-wire is mostly copper too.
I have the gold wire, which is made in Germany. I have just fretted a bass neck with it, and can tell you it is every bit as hard as regular nickel-silver fret-wire.
It is *much* harder than the Asian fret-wire that I took off this bass neck.
Stainless steel fret-wire is harder ( I have a ton of it, and haven't even experimented with installing it yet), but if you use proper finger pressure (keep thinking : " don't press into the frets anymore than needed for a clean note"), the regular fret-wire should last a good while.
Some say stainless steel sounds a little too brittle.
By what my customer says about the gold wire on his bass, I'm wondering if the gold wire sounds even better than regular nickel-silver wire.
The way I play, I can't just decide to apply the "nicest" pressure in order to form a note. ;)
I appreciate your comments, soapbarstrat. I however have a follow-up question. How much harder is stainless steel compared to the golden one? Like 20%? Etc... Sorry for sounding so persistent, but it's a lot of $ for me, so I'm just in need of as much info as possible before committing.
I'd like to know the answer to that myself. I haven't even cut any of the stainless I have, yet. And I'm not about to use my $30.00 end-nippers to cut it and see if it does damage to the nippers. I have an idea of another type of nippers I think I'll get for the stainless wire.
So I can't answer your question in any detail, other than I know from what others say that the stainless is quite a bit harder than regular fret-wire.
Percentage-wise, I can't say, but I have to assume it's at least 20% harder.
I've also heard that heavy-handed guitarist have managed to wear grooves in stainless steel fret-wire, and in one case, the player had regular frets put back in, after this happened, because his guitar tech couldn't deal with routine fret dressing on the SS frets.
A light fretting hand touch doesn't mean you start playing like a wimp. You can still be abusive as hell with your picking hand, as long as your string height will allow you to do that without much buzzing. Only so much pressure is needed to fret a note, it doesn't mean one has to play extra nice, it's about not using more force than needed. With the picking hand, it is so that the harder you pick, the louder the string will vibrate, but the same isn't true for the fretting hand. Actually, if you press harder than needed, you can be killing sustain from you finger being in harder contact with the fret-board wood.
My problem is trying to go a little easier with bends I make on the first and second frets. It seem a little easier for me to control my pressure with taller frets, because when I press too hard on those, the strings really dig into my fngers more, which makes them sore.
soapbar is right on. Heavy pressure on your fretting hand is bad and does nothing to help tone and everything to hurt it. It also pushes your chords out of tune, especially if you use heavier gauge string. I know because I did this for a long time and had to really consciously think my way out of it for over a year. It isn't something good (i.e., there's no correllation to heavy handed picking a la SRV), it needs to be fixed. The benefits to your playing and sounds will be huge. :yay
Jumbo frets can cure a heavy fretting hand in a hurry. The board won't save you and you'll be pulling everything out of tune.
You're right on, Sabby. My experience had always been on small, vintage frets from my first guitar. The first time I got a guitar that had some larger frets on it I was pretty dismayed at the fact that I couldn't play in tune to save my life.
As I said, it took some serious time back in the 'shed to re-think my left-hand technique, but the eventual benefits were excellent.
I guess there are some misconceptions about my playing.
I *already* play with jumbo frets (6100, IIRC) and they don't last long, not especially because I press so hard on the strings, but mostly, because I bend the strings like a maniac all the time! The frets don't have dents in them. They're just "sanded down" so to speak.
No matter what guitar is thrown at me, I will always play in tune, because my ears are very well developed and my number one pet peeve is being out of tune, even by the slightest edge, either sharp or flat.
My picking hand is much heavier than my fretting hand. It makes it easy for me to play SRV material really well, but it also made it easy for me to break at *least* one guitar string per day until I got some GraphTech saddles.
Lastly, unlike some other guitarists I have met, I don't consider anybody who plays with small frets and thin strings to not be as "manly" as I am, etc... I always thought that point was the most retarded anti-musical argument I have ever heard. Nevertheless, I play with heavy strings and huge frets simply because, as my name implies, musical gear doesn't last that long with me. Therefore, I always look for tough stuff. For instance, with the Warmoth neck, one of the deciding factors for me to go with them was the dual truss rod they have. That neck was the very first that didn't bend due to my frequent bending of the strings.
I hope that clears up a few things! Thanks, guys! :)
Sounds just like me. When I got my first American Fender I was disillusioned by it because I thought since it was American made, it would be prefect, and the frets would last forever... I flattened the crowns in about 6 months. I had to stop playing in the key of A to even out the wear!Originally Posted by Strat-Mangler
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Those Albert King bends definitely kill the frets. It's a shame a refret is so expensive, because it seems like I'll probably need to buy new necks all the time.
I've found the frets on Fender Am. Std. and Am. Series to wear fairly quickly, More so than other guitars.
I actually found that my thin wire MiM's Strats lasted longer...
The luthier that I'll be using tells me as a test.. Press the string... is there a gap between the string and the fret board? Yes? Then you don't need a refret..
I doubt I'll let mine get that low, though...
But then again, you have the Les Paul's from the 70's and 80's call the "Fretless Wonders". I've seen a few of those last FOREVER!
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I'll have to disagree with your luthier on that one, as for me, it's a question of comfort. I love having high action. The higher (within reason), the better. I just enjoy playing more with it.
There's just more satisfaction, for me anyway, to playing hard and struggling with the strings than there is to just flow through the motions. My personal take, anyway.
There's a point where the frets get so low, you can't shape a decent crown into them anymore. But that's the kind of neck I like to buy, then re-fret. I'm real fussy about wood being as stable as possible. I just can't get that stability I want, with a new neck.
Strat-Mangler, I think it's time for you to try out SS frets. They're supposed to be great for bending.
Tall frets and high action are two totally different things. A guitar with very small frets can have high action.
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