Kap'n's Weber 5E3 kit

[Jim Collins]

I'm not a first-timer, but I have built a Mission 5F4. The tweed Super is my favorite tweed amp, and this one is outstanding. I loaded the cabinet with one Allen C1045 (a ceramic speaker) and one Eminence L102 (an alnico speaerk). This combination of speakers gives a Tele or Strat a clear, strong bottom with a top that breaks up smoothly and is slightly compressed.

[sabby]

Hi Jim. Would you rate the build as beyond the ability of a novice. I'll read up and prepare, and I'm no dummy, but I don't want to have to dump it in the lap of a tech to find a few issues in that largeish-looking layout. :rolleyes: I too was thinking of a ceramic-alnico blend for tweed thickness and break-up with a bit more twang and headroom. I'd probably go with the Weber Signature Ss, or with a 20w 10A125 and a 30w 10F125. (That 15w speakers scares me a bit, though Weber supposedly rates conservatively.)

[detuned]

FWIW, I exchanged emails with Dan from Tubegarden recently. He says that he'll be writing the build instructions for all of Weber's kits in the future, & Dan is famous for his n00b-friendly instructions.

Give Ted a shout & ask him when/if he'll be have the Tubegarden build instructions.

[Jim Collins]

How would I rate the difficulty of the build of the Mission 5F4? Well, I may not really be the one to answer that. I received a sort of a beta test version of his kit. Bruce sent a small number of these beta test kits out to experienced builders, because he did not yet have the instructions completed. He did have a CAD drawing of the chassis, a schematic, and a few other things, but no step-by-step instructions. If you were an experienced builder, you could do it from the CAD drawing, but if you weren't, it would be difficult. (There is a logical order to things, but it wouldn't be apparent by simply looking at the drawing.) If the CAD wasn't clear enough, and you were somewhat familiar with a schematic, you'd be all right. I managed, but it was because I had done it, before. I'm sure his instructions are more complete, by now.

I'm including a picture of the completed chassis, mounted in the cab. If you have seen other Mission kits, you might notice something different. Since I didn't have Bruce's instructions, I did one thing different from how he would. He actually wires the heater elements first, and tucks them against the chassis, up under the lip. I've always wired the heaters last, which is why you see the green and yellow heater wires elevated above the tube sockets (to reduce noise). Victoria does it this way, and the blackface-style kits I've built do it this way. The amp is very nice and quiet. This pic was taken before I settled on the final speaker combination of Allen ceramic and Eminence alnico. (In the pic, the amp has two Eminence speakers.)

[Kap'n]

It stays a little cleaner with a 12ay7, in-between clean and dirty with a JAN Phillips 5751, and full on raunch with the supplied 12ax7. I like the 5751.

Tried a Tung-Sol 12AY7, and it's just got a hint of grit to the sound. The 12AX7 is a bit over the top. The 5751 is just right, as Goldilocks said.

The deluxe with a Fulldrive is a thing of beauty. A great minimal setup for small gigs.

[fezz parka]

Jim that looks great!

The cab's done and the amp is assembled. I used the Minwax Polyshades honey pine on it (cut 50/50 with mineral spirits so the 1st coat would really soak in, the 2nd coat was uncut). It looks great. The key to getting the Polyshades clear is to use gloss instead of satin, and to take the sheen down a little some 400 grit w/d sandpaper.

I played it for about four hours yesterday. Found all the cab rattles and tightened 'em down. The top back panel still rattles when the amp is cranked, gotta figure that one out (maybe some weather stripping on the backside of the panel). The P12Q I had in the garage had a bad voice coil rub, so until I get my speaker, the Eminence/Boogie (50 watt ceranic magnet) speaker is gonna live in there. I was shaking the house with this thing. There is some ever so slight ugliness (tiny) when the amp is wide open, so I tried it through my BFVR's speakers wired in series to see if the "ugliness" was coming from the Eminence. It was.:hee

My Pine Tele is just pure bliss through the Deluxe. All the control you need over the amp is on the guitar. Clean to mean is on the volume knob. I'm really digging the normal channel over the bright channel. I'm building another one.:yay

Tubegarden is selling cabs w/ the 5e3 cutout in a 2x10, 3x10, and 4x10 config. I'm thinking a 4x10 5e3. Somewhere for my 4 50's P10R's to live.

[Kap'n]

There is some ever so slight ugliness (tiny) when the amp is wide open, so I tried it through my BFVR's speakers wired in series to see if the "ugliness" was coming from the Eminence. It was.

I think an amp with no negative feedback is very sensitive to the speaker's strengths and weaknesses.

I shellaced my bandmaster cab last night, and stuffed the components on the board.

My shellacing came out a bit uneven again, but I figured out that you can soak a clean rag with denatured alcohol, and rub it, and it'll smooth out the uneven-ness.

[fezz parka]

That's the beauty of the shellac, the burn in. With the poly you're just glopping more on top of it.:lol

I tried the shellac on the inside top to get a feel for the color next to the Polyshades. The Polyshades seemed to work real well with the Yellow/Brown of the tweed. So that's what I went with.

I've thought about toying with a "soul control" using either the neg feedback like the 5f10 or the 5d4, but then again why bother? It sounds so freaking good as is.

[Kap'n]

I've thought about toying with a "soul control" using either the neg feedback like the 5f10 or the 5d4, but then again why bother? It sounds so freaking good as is.

Yep. Too many options. I really appricate the simplicity of these amps. It's like a 4-input marshall. All you ever need to adjust is the volume control and the presence knob.

[sabby]

Thanks for the pics, Jim. I think if I keep poking at the reading, when I make the plunge I'll be alright. I've never seen the elevated heater wiring ... something else to pursue.

Sorry for the hijack, all.

[Kap'n]

Finished the 5E7 Bandmaster today.

If I could only have one, I'd take it over the 5E3 Deluxe. Even with the mismatched tubes in there, it's an awesome sound.

[sabby]

Alright Kap'n, give up the goods. :lol How would you compare the sound of the two amps? What about overall volume? What about the Bandmaster vibe do you like more than the Deluxe? I assume they are about the same in terms of difficulty of build?

Any random thoughts or comparisons? Fess up, man! :yay

[Kap'n]

Alright Kap'n, give up the goods. :lol How would you compare the sound of the two amps? What about overall volume? What about the Bandmaster vibe do you like more than the Deluxe? I assume they are about the same in terms of difficulty of build?

Any random thoughts or comparisons? Fess up, man! :yay

OK.

They're massively different amps. The Deluxe, with the two channels, pretty much gives variations on a single sound. The bass is a lot looser, probably because of the lack of negative feedback. I'm gonna do the Fezz thing, and lower the value of the first cathode bypass capacitor to trim a bit of bass off. It's also pretty much a one-volume amp. It's off, or it's up to full volume at about 2, and it just gets grittier. Not that any of that is a bad thing - it's an awesome sound, and responds great to playing dynamics, but there's not a whole lot of variation built into the amp itself. I find the bright channel to be the most useful of the two.

The Bandmaster, is surprisingly not a heck of a lot louder. What it does have is presence. I don't mean as in the knob, but it just sort of fills the room with sound, even when it's not very loud. As other people have noted, the tone controls don't just alter the tone, they add grit as you turn them up, yet there's a lot more clean on tap, good for a variety of types of music. Bass is tighter, but the amp is still very responsive. Both the bright channel and the normal channel are very useful.

Think of the 5E7 as a Harley Sportster, and the 5E3 as a two-stroke dirt bike.

Also, I found the Bandmaster a bit trickier to make than the Deluxe. There's an additional piece of iron, another preamp tube, the underboard wiring is a bit more complex, and it's harder to wedge the board in. especially with the routing of the output transformer wires. That's not to say it's impossible, but it requires a few more problem-solving skills than the Deluxe.

Tip: When making this amp, there's an underboard wire that connects the presence control to the third preamp tube. It's actually two wires - with a stop at the voltage divider that is the -fb resistor and the driver cathode resistor. I was working off of a monochromatic print of the layout, and didn't make that connection, and the amp didn't work, since the cathode of the the driver was only connected to ground via the presence control. Rather than pull out the entire freakin' board, I added a jumper wire, and it works fine. I won't be making that mistake again.

[sabby]

Thanks, man. And congrats on the two new ponies in your stable.

[Kap'n]

And congrats on the two new ponies in your stable.

Thanks! I'm on a roll. Next up, I'm reworking Weber's Revibe unit to be a more basic Reverb tank/Vibrochamp tremolo unit.

[TT100]

Jim that looks so fine! How do you like the Legend Alnicos? I have a pair of the 35 watt 12" 122s Alnicos in my Pro Reverb.

Kap'n you're right on with the 5e3 description. Beauty is that even being "one trick pony" there are lots of subtle variations on the trick to be had based on tube choice, channel jumping, guitar settings etc. Tons of fun. I wonder how the 5e7 would compare to the 5e3x2 variant?

Tweed kit shootout '05??

:yay

TT

[fezz parka]

Hot damn, Kap'n! Time for the camera!

[Kap'n]

I wonder how the 5e7 would compare to the 5e3x2 variant?

Tweed kit shootout '05??

I'm thinking that an A/B/Y box with the 5E3 and 5E7 would make a righteous rig.

Pix coming...

[Jim Collins]

Jim that looks so fine! How do you like the Legend Alnicos? I have a pair of the 35 watt 12" 122s Alnicos in my Pro Reverb.
TT

I was less thrilled with a pair of the L102s, together, than I am with an L102 mated with the Allen C1045 (a ceramic magnet). The pair of L102s, together, broke up rather early, and had a definite compressed sound. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't very loud, either. On the other hand, a pair of the Allen C1045 speakers is quite loud, with no compression, and rather late breakup. I was looking for something in the middle. Putting one C1045 and one L102 in the same combo -- a ceramic mixed with an alnico -- provided just that. The low end is big, tight, clean and strong, and the top end is smooth, and a little compressed. It is cool how the top end sounds a tad compressed, whereas the bottom end doesn't. This is just what I was looking for.

I'm on the lookout for a pairing of 12" speakers (not necessarily the same two speakers) that give me the same combination in a 2x12 combo -- specifically, a Victoria low powered Twin. How do the 112s work, in that vein?

[sabby]

Thanks! I'm on a roll. Next up, I'm reworking Weber's Revibe unit to be a more basic Reverb tank/Vibrochamp tremolo unit.

You can't shut him down. You can only hope to contain him! :lol

I'm thinking that a Super and a ReVibe in front of compression, delay, and boost may be the ultimate rig. Until I get it, of course.

[TT100]

I'm on the lookout for a pairing of 12" speakers (not necessarily the same two speakers) that give me the same combination in a 2x12 combo -- specifically, a Victoria low powered Twin. How do the 112s work, in that vein?

Sorry Jim, I don't have much background experience to give you an educated answer. So, from someone who really liked a Celestion G12M70 in a Carvin 60 watt combo and is now loving the sound of Weber Sig 12 Alnicos in a 5e3x2, the Legends in the Pro reverb are very clean & clear, not overly bright and they do compress a bit when the amp is run at 8 or over. Full and balanced with a smooth top end.

Sorry I couldn't give a more concrete comparison with something.

TT

[bluesfreak68]

I'm on the lookout for a pairing of 12" speakers (not necessarily the same two speakers) that give me the same combination in a 2x12 combo -- specifically, a Victoria low powered Twin. How do the 112s work, in that vein?

Hi there,

What about pairing a Weber 12F150 and a 12A150 in your Twin?
For even more Bottom substitute the 12A150 with a California...

just my 2c
bluesfreak

[Kap'n]

My Alnico Signature 12 speaker finally arrived!

I pulled out the ceramic Chicago speaker I had in there earlier. BIG difference.

The amp is substantially quieter than it was before. I guess I never realized how efficient some of my speakers are compared to most. Now it's pretty much a match, volume-wise with my Brown Princeton, which now has one of the Alnico Signature 10S speakers from my bandmaster. It's now a comfortable practice amp volume.

So, how does it sound?

Well, obviously, the speaker is not broken in yet, but it seems like a great match for the amp. With the Chicago, the amp was immediatly aggressive and loud, from 2 on up. With the Signature, the amp is warmer and smoother. It also works better with pedals, particularly with overdrive, which was way over the top with the Chicago.

It also reacts very nicely with wah wah. I'm not really a wah kind of guy, but I recently pulled my modded Vox pedal out of mothballs and gave it a spin. The darkness of the amp is an asset here, keeping the edge off extreme toe postions.

[fezz parka]

My speaker arrived today. I'm gonna install it tonight. Your description of the Chicago is close to what the Vintage Shadow sounds like in mine, aggressive and very loud...

[itbepopples]

I'm reworking Weber's Revibe unit to be a more basic Reverb tank/Vibrochamp tremolo unit.

ive wanted to do that since i saw the thing go up. unfortunatly, my lack of circuitry knowledge has prevented me from doing so. if you get it would you share the changes youve made with us?

[Kap'n]

ive wanted to do that since i saw the thing go up. unfortunatly, my lack of circuitry knowledge has prevented me from doing so. if you get it would you share the changes youve made with us?

Absolutely. I've got it done conceptually, but I'm sure it will require some tweaking. I've already got a name picked out.

The Mojo-Box.

Named after the current kings of reverb and trem....

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=music

[fezz parka]

"Dirt Track Date" is on my top ten list. SCOTS be the shizzle...

[Kap'n]

"Dirt Track Date" is on my top ten list. SCOTS be the shizzle...

Yep. I've been messing with a few of their tunes. Greenback Fly, Make Mayan a Hawaiian, and Firefly from that album, and The Wet Spot from Mojo Box. Maybe I can convince the band to do one or two.

5E3 died during practice tonight.:wah I'm sureit won't be hard to figure out, but it still sucks.