Melody, Harmony, Rhythm - Rank Importance

[Algernon]

I vote Melody for #1 and Rhythm #2. Anyone who has ever done solo guitar gigs will probably understand this. You can leave out harmony altogether and people can recognize songs by the melody alone, providing you play it in time.

Melody is to a song like words are to a poem. The melody is what makes a musical statement. A strong, recognizable melody will make all your original compositions memorable. The opposite is also true of weak melodies. (I can name that tune in three notes …) The melody is the signature of a song, its ultimate identity. I guess that’s why I like older music (Gershwin, Cole Porter, Kern, Hart, Mercer, Mancini, etc.) more than contemporary music. The melodies are so much better.

How many of you really pay as much attention to developing good, strong melodies as you should? The pinnacle for me is being able to play a smooth chord-melody in time. When I open up the Real Book and practice tunes like Autumn Leaves for instance, I always try to play the melody correctly at least once in the opening verse. After that, my soloing can point back towards the melody and even resolve back into the melody if I like.

A song without a good melody is like a burger without the beef; like beer with no alcohol; like fries without ketchup; like a day without sunshine; like a (fill in the blank). I’m not trying to say that harmony and rhythm aren’t also important, but if you’re going to blow something, please don’t let it be the melody.

[Offshore Angler]

Algernon, I put rythym first. I've come to beleive over the years that music is a rythmic disciple. I can play a single note and it's a tone, but not music. But add rythym, and it is. On the other hand, I can have only drums and it is surely music. Think african drums. No melody or harmony, and it's still music. But a note by itself isn't music. During a song, how many times have you had a drum break, and it starts with only the kick knocking out quarters and builds? Did the song stop? Nope. It just became a pure rythym for while. But if the band breaks, and I just hit a note and stand there, it did. Rythym is what makes it music. Melody and harmony are the embellishments, but rythym determines the genre. But you can play the same song with a backbeat and make it rock, or a reggae beat, or in threes to make it a waltz.

[Kap'n]

A melody has rhythm, otherwise it's just a string of ill timed notes.

Judging by most of the radio stations these days, all you need is [mechanical] rhythm.

African drums do have melody. If it didn't, there'd be only one drum size and pitch.

I need all three to make me happy, in relatively equal amounts.

[Offshore Angler]

Or think back to when we were kids watching American Bandstand. How many times when they asked someone to rate a song was the anwser "It has a good beat and it's easy to dance to" vs "I loved the melody and harmonies"?

[dez]

Rhythm, melody, harmony.

[fezz parka]

dez nails it. Howard Roberts told me when I was a kid "Good rhythm players get the gigs." He was right:yay

[pc]

R, M, H.

[Wilko]

I like all three and find that a varying amount of each all make for good tension and resolve.

For a fine example of this, listen to Pet Sounds or Sgt. Pepper or any great album or piece of musical composition.

You'll hear great rhythm, melody in that order, then you'll hear melody first. You'll also hear spots where the harmony is king floating in a fromata or other spot hanging without tempo.

[frank thomson]

it all depends on the song and style

i'd surely put harmony last, but if you're doing a simon and garfunkle tune, rythm is last.....right?....M, H, R

my vote: it's always different.

i'm a rythm guitarist, but i'd bet over half of the time (maybe as much as 90%) you'd not be able to recognize a song on rythm alone.....exceptions would be CHINA DOLL, and PUMP IT UP, and W/O LOVE-WHERE WOULD YOU BE NOW, and YESTERDAY, and ANGIE ....(see what I mean?)

imnsho

[fezz parka]

You can change a melody by changing it's rhythm. One of the first things I learned was how to clap out whole notes, quarter notes, eighth notes. etc as they were written out on the blackboard. This was before learning what pitch the notes were. Rhythm is everything.:yay

[frank thomson]

i get that!

[Kap'n]

One of the first things I learned was how to clap out whole notes, quarter notes, eighth notes. etc as they were written out on the blackboard.

Yep. Miss Torak taught us the "ta, ta, tee-tee ta" thing way back when.

Don't remember whether she had nice tatas or not :boobs

[Jim Collins]

A fellow I know took quite a bit of music training. One professor was dealing with the topic of the importance of rhythm. He played a selection of notes, all in the proper order, but without the rhythm, and no one could name the well-known tune. He tapped the rhythm of anther well-known on the desk, and everyone could name the tune. His point was that rhythm is everything.

I love a good guitar solo as much as anyone, but I've always thought that good guitarists are a dime a dozen, but a good rhythm section is worth its weight in gold. Add a great guitarist to an awful rhythm section, and you have an awful band, but add an average guitarist to a great rhythm section, and you have a band that gets steady work.

[sabby]

R, M, H.

:yay

And then there's this interview with Bob Brozman, which I think abounds in political, cultural, and musical insight.
http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/atc/20020604.atc.07.ram

[Folk_guy]

I think life Frank it depends on the song. for example take a funk song and take away the rythym, even the melody played in time wouldn't be very interesting with out the rythym backup. Then take a balad like Unchained melody hum the melody alone and it's still a recognizable and IMHO beautiful song. Harmony if I had to pick would be least important, but music as a whole would be very dull without it.

[shunka]

All have importance. A melody alone "suggests " to the listener a harmonic structure, perhaps even one that the composer never intended. Melody also has a rhythm to it, not necessarily the rhythm pattern that an accompaniest might play. The entire character of a melody can be changed by using different harmonies and rhythms. Think of the way some symphonies restate the same melody at different speeds or harmonized differently. Think of movie themes that slip into minor keys during suspensful moments.
Kind of like salad dressing. The vinegar needs the oil and both need the other herbs and spices etc. to make it interesting. A little more oregano? Alittle less garlic?

[Offshore Angler]

shunka makes my point vividly. Rythym is the key. In soloing or singing, we call it phrasing. The notes are simply tones, but the phrasing is what determines the style, and artist's interpretation.

The master of phrasing on the guitar, IMHO, is Wille Nelson. He's the Louis Armstrong of country, and Louis Armstrong, is, quite simply, THE MAN. He turned music from a mathmatical stay between the lines pursuit of perfection to what we all play today.

He put rythym ahead of melody and we all never looked back.

[Wilko]

Willie Nelson WAS the master of phrasing. Something has gone wrong in his head and he now rushes out all the notes and words before the next chord change. It's actully pretty crappy to watch him play lately.
He's been doing this for at least the last 5 years or so.

[sabby]

Willie Nelson WAS the master of phrasing. Something has gone wrong in his head and he now rushes out all the notes and words before the next chord change. It's actully pretty crappy to watch him play lately.
He's been doing this for at least the last 5 years or so.

But his guitar playing is a simple, delicate, fractured thing of beauty. I was blown away when I saw him live.

[Rickenjangle]

Are we talking purely about music? 'Cause I think that (to me) the words of the song are the most important part. Plus, the words often marry the melody to the rhythm by virtue of their meter. But I don't listen to very much instrumental music.

[The Nazz Are Blue]

Are we talking purely about music? 'Cause I think that (to me) the words of the song are the most important part. Plus, the words often marry the melody to the rhythm by virtue of their meter. But I don't listen to very much instrumental music.

Most of us here probably pay close attention to the guitar and the other instruments playing on a song more than to the lyrics. The fact is, though, that most people who just put on a tune to listen to pay more attention to the words than anything.

[Alpine86]

I think its difficult to isolate the three of the categories and pick a more important one.. I think melody is important to solid song structure, and thats the part thats gonna stick with you.. most people arent walking around humming drum solos in thier head.. although.. maybe some do.. bt its the melody that I think grabs you first.. however.. when you speak of rhythm, are you referring to the rhythm of the melody, or a solid rhythm section. Personally, I think an interesting rhythm to a melody will help elevate it abouve just some average string of notes.. help make the melody unpredictable, and help keep the listeners attention. A solid rhythm section helps keep the groove of the song moving.. touching I think a more primitive listening aspect in the listener. Harmony is good.. but I would consider it a sub category of melody.

Just me two cents!

[Offshore Angler]

Willie Nelson WAS the master of phrasing. Something has gone wrong in his head and he now rushes out all the notes and words before the next chord change. It's actully pretty crappy to watch him play lately.
He's been doing this for at least the last 5 years or so.

Well, that's what I mean by phrasing. If you approach it as a guitar player and say "he's not in time" I, respectfully, challenge that assumption. Willie pushes and pulls the tempo of the guitar solo to weave between the lyrics. And, at least to me, he's the master of it.

It's like playing the blues. You can follow the the chord changes and be a solid player. Even a great player. But let's say you change to the IV chord a measure BEFORE the progression, and then let the band resolve around around you. That's just cool in my book.

I guess different strokes, but some of the things I hear Willie do lately are pure magic. Nothing flashy or technical, just ultra cool. He builds such tension and release with his phrasing it's beautiful. Quarter tone bends, delays and catch ups, he has no fear of doing it his way. Maybe I'm in a small minority, but I really dig it.

[NeoFauve]

I think they either feed off of, or trigger one another.
Rhythm is essential to organize it all.
But the chords a rhythm player plays can imply a harmony.
Unless you're in the process of writing a tune, it's tough to say what starts it all.
It's noticeable when any one of them is missing.

[Wilko]

.
I guess different strokes, but some of the things I hear Willie do lately are pure magic. Nothing flashy or technical, just ultra cool. He builds such tension and release with his phrasing it's beautiful. Quarter tone bends, delays and catch ups, he has no fear of doing it his way. Maybe I'm in a small minority, but I really dig it.

I hear ya. I definitely prefer his guitar playing to his recent singing.
I "get" phrasing and have a pretty good grasp of music. I do think Willie is one of the best songwriters and musicians that we've been blessed with, BUT, I just find that (mainly in his singing-I lov ethe weay he plays guitar) he seems to be just spewing out the words to get them out of the way. There's no magic in that. The last few times I've gone to see him live, he just isn't singing well. He's not doing those magical phrases that push and pull and dance around the rhythm. He just throws them out in a wad and then there's an awkward wait for the next line that he then just throws out there.
Maybe he's tired of singing those songs.

[fezz parka]

Rhythm is essential to organize it all.

Ding. Ding. Ding.

[Kap'n]

Are we talking purely about music? 'Cause I think that (to me) the words of the song are the most important part.

I would think that songs, by definition, are sung, and have vocals with words, or "la-las" or whatever. Instrumental compositions, OTOH, can say as much with a few notes as a song can with all of its lyrics.

For example, most popular instrumental tunes on their own say more than the entire Ted Nugent lyric catalog put together.

[NeoFauve]

Kap'n, if I'm not mistaken, that's your second "Nuge" reference today.
What gives, man?
Did Santa bring you a mint condition vinyl copy of "Intensities In Ten Cities?" :santa

[Kap'n]

Kap'n, if I'm not mistaken, that's your second "Nuge" reference today.
What gives, man?

Scary, innit. He made the news this weekend. Apparently he's moving to Crawford, Texas.

I could have a field day with that one...:rl :rofl

[NeoFauve]

Apparently he's moving to Crawford, Texas.

I could have a field day with that one...:rl :rofl

Jeeze. Where do you start?
The Jon Stewart model? Just say what happened and let a pause do the rest.