SOS - Country players please help

[LeviSS]

No matter what I do, I can't make make my playing sound countryish. It always sounds like rock/blues. Can anyone suggest any techniques or anything at all that I can do to make it sound more country.

[moonpie]

Listen to some country music with players you like.

Larry Byrom, formerly of Steppenwolf, was (and may still be) one of the first call country acoustic players in Nashville.

Cameron Duncan used to play with the Amazing Rhythm Aces before his time with Sawyer Brown.

Vince Gill played with Pure Prarie League before his solo career.


Check out Mark Knopfler and Chet Atkins on the Neck and Neck CD.

Get you a gig in a redneck town with a country singer who idolizes Patsy Cline and Dolly Parton.......

find common ground......


Commander Cody & the Lost Planet Airmen
Little Feat--------------

get away from thinking "hey, this is country, I'll play these licks"

Listen to the Lovin' Spoonfiul......it wasn't country then, but it's more country than most anything coming out of Nashville these days...




nah, screw all that.....jump in the Jam Zone.....start playin' your heart out........

[frank thomson]

i listened to country for about a year, then one day it just clicked. it's not what you play, it's how you play it. for me, it was an E chord. i hit the open E note, then lifted and dropped on the A string. same thing w/ a C chord and your middle finger.

repeat after me...

twang-chicka-twang-twang-twang,-chicka-twang-twang-twang,-chicka-.....and so on!



~**life is like a box o chocolates**~:hee

i think i wanna try to learn some slide, now. what a beautiful sound!

[jim in texas]

I love country licks.

It really helps to play in the major scales when you want that kind of vibe.

[moonpie]

I love country licks.

It really helps to play in the major scales when you want that kind of vibe.

OK, now you're just pickin' at me.
The only thing I know about scales is catfish don't have'em....

[bonefish]

i work out of the root V and IV posistion alot, lots of hammer ons and bends on the d and g string, and hybrid picking. the country approach feels more chordal than scalar (to me anyways). country picking also seems to follow the melody of the vocal a bit closer than in blues/rock. i like to cop the melody at the start of a lead, then embellish it with some chickin-pickin, and when the progression goes to the V7 the last time around i throw in some root VI (or pentatonic minor if that's the way you look at it)blues licks.

[doc540]

my 2 cents:

Woodshed with 60's Merle Haggard and Buck Owens records. They'll represent the classic 2/4, polka, and waltz country grooves.

Then snag "San Antonio Rose" with Ray Price and Willie Nelson. If and when you can cop the several, fundamental grooves on that album (2/4, 4/4 shuffle, polka, swing, only thing missing is a waltz) you'll be there.

No, seriously, IMHO that single album is the quintessential country album of all time, as good as anything ever recorded and totally nails those grooves.

Shy away from all the modern interpretations, country rock, etc. and learn to feel the grooves from the masters of the 50's, 60's, and even 70's.

Good luck, there's a lot of room for good musicianship in country music. And if you wanna play hardcored honky tonk you also have to know how to rock.

[Motojunkie]

Make sure you dial in a country tone....go for a bright clean tone with lots of compression for starters.

[doc540]

For country tone I recommend Bill Hullett.

go to www.hullettamps.com and click the Bill Hullett link.

Brace yourself for the absolute finest Tele tone in the known world. No, seriously....as good as it gets.

[doc540]

Hullett's recorded with:

Lee Roy Parnell
Joe Diffie
Radney Foster
Alabama
Martina McBride
George Jones
Vern Gosdin
Leann Womack
John Michael Montgomery
David Allen Coe
Pam Tillis
Joy Lynn White
Holly Dunn
Merle Haggard
Diamond Rio
Shelby Lynn
Don Nix
Harlan Howard
Sonny Landreth
Marty Robbins
Keith Richards / George Jones
B. J. Thomas
Bob Woodruf
Linda Davis
Loretta Lynn
Neal McCoy
The Jordinaires
Tammy Wynette
Johnny Paycheck
Highway 101
T. Grahm Brown
Billy Dean

[Wilko]

great advice so far.

I'll add to the "it's how you play it" thing. You need to lighten your touch and loosen your wrist or it will never happen. learning the "tele grip" is a big part of the double stop chording/bends that you'll need. The Tele grip is use a pick and your middle and ring fingers to grab a few strings and pluck 'em. Rock picking is more side to side (paralell to the guitar top) and country picking is usually more vertical.

I'll second the early country classics the target. Aim for that and you'll hit somewhere between honky tonk and early Eagles.

[doc540]

A "country" guitar:


(Stolen, unfortunately)

[cooltone]

Throw some pedal steel type bends in between your blues licks..Double stops with single notes and with bends are also very effective. Chicken pickin' harmonized 3rds, 4ths, 5ths and 6ths...this is all common country stuff.

[sabby]

And nail your bends. This is no time for quarter- and eigth-step in-between blues tones. The quitessential country bends mimic the precision of a pedel steel. And, like Wilko suggested, resurrect those ragtime finger-picking patterns.

[moonpie]

like this http://www.tomburch.net/music-52.htm

[Offshore Angler]

leviSS, here are a few hints:

First, if your playing sounds bluesy or rockish, your working the wrong scales. Since country is heavily influenced by 7ths, the mixolydian is a good mode to work with at times.

Next, you need to understand harptones. Harptones are Hillbilly 101. A harptone is an (usually) open ringing string against a fretted one. For a good example, play a G scale at the third fret. Boring isn't it. OK. Now, look at the notes in G scale: G A B C D E F# G. Hmmm.... looks like all but two notes are available as open strings! So we can play the G scale and substitute the fretted notes for opens most of the time. And when we play the G scale at the 5th fret, quite often the note above or below a fretted note can be played as an open - try it. So play the fretted note - and while still holding it hit the open next to it. Next, while the open is ringing move to the next note in the scale. Now, instead of two notes next to each other in a do...re...me.. linear and single note progression, we get notes of different intervals ( since a major scale has both whole and half-step jumps) ringing in dissonance and harmony - AND THAT'S COUNTRY. Plus, the lick now has a fluid feel to it that is country as well. In short, let the last note picked continue to ring while you pick the nest one, always have two notes going at once. That's partly what I think the previous poster meant by country having a more chordal feel. You can also see why the key of G is popular in country too.

Next are the double-stops. A classic is to play the C double-stop over an A chord. Just go to the 5th fret, bend the G string up a whole step ( two frets ) with your ring finger, and use your pinky to fret the B and high E string at the eigth fret. Now, use your pick to hit the G string and your picking hand ring finger and middle finger to hit the fretted strings and Viola! - pure corn pone action as you release the bend. And now, you're hybrid picking too.

As far as your rig, a good compressor goes a long way in country, and some slap-back delay won't hurt either.

And, if you get the harptones really going, you can add a delay with a tap tempo. Now, you can slap-back one note in time with the music. By holding a note, picking a note, and getting the slap-back in time, if you pick the right notes every "note" you play will be a chord and you'll get that wicked Hellecasters vibe going.

Hope this helps.

Chuck

[doc540]

And two beers.

OA, you forgot the two beers.

[Wilko]

leviSS, here are a few hints:

First, if your playing sounds bluesy or rockish, your working the wrong scales. Since country is heavily influenced by 7ths, the mixolydian is a good mode to work with at times.

All your advice was good except that piece about the 7th. Most blues guys are all over that 7th note.

Try the 6th instead, for a real honky tonk flavor.

play an A chord on the fifth fret and put your pinky on the B string 7th fret. Play only the high four strins. Dig that!

[Offshore Angler]

Wilko, sixths are really cool Good advice. I still manage to work a lot of 7ths in somehow. In the non-pentatonic based over 7th chords ala the Nash-Vegas sound kindof way. Try the mixolydian with the open strings. It makes it more angular and less rock and roll with some unexpected intervals in the solo. I guess whatever works, eh?

[LeviSS]

Thanks for all the advice. I'll keep it in mind while I'm playing. Do you guys have any advice as to how to become a better finger-picker? I really suck at fingerpicking, and I know that it is a pretty essential part of country music. I am just in a rut and need to expand my playing styles. I find myself playing the same stuff over and over. Although I am not a huge fan of country, I grew up on it (with my dad's help), I really respect it and find myself listening to it more on my own will. I think it has a lot to offer to improve guitar skills. So thanks for all the advice, and more is welcome.

[Wilko]

I hear you. But like you said, YOU know when to do it.

I was just thinking if you are stuck sounding blues, get off the defining note of blues and rock. The 7th.

Harptones, or "pedal tones" as they are sometimes called are sure a big part of my "country" arsenal. Whole step bends like the classic double stop you mentioned.

LeviSS,
Try that at the nut as an open G chord and you're all over Honky Tonk Woman for a hilbilly sound that you can use anywhere. Use it up the neck like Angler described, any chord will do. It's a real easy sound that will make any song instantly "country"

Great as an ending chord. bend that 2nd all the way to the 3rd and hold it on the last beat. (end of Teach your Children"

[Tele-Bob]

Forget that you know the pentatonic minor scale. (rock scale) It is the root of all evil for guitar players and throws us into a rut we have major difficulty climbing out of! There ain't no country in that scale!

[LeviSS]

You know Bob, that is probably a big problem of mine. I play all over the neck using the pentatonics and not much else. It makes sense that the blues scale wouldn't work really well for country. I keep saying that I am gonna learn more scales, but I just get lazy, and damned college gets in the way of my guitar time. I knew the mixolodian (sp?) at one point, but have since forgotten it because I'd always go back to the pents because I knew them better. Any other scales I should attempt to learn? Also, I could use some finger-picking advice. I know very little music theory, so feel free to dumb everything down if it's theory.

[sabby]

Pentatonic scales are fine, just make sure you're mixing both the major and minor pentatonics together. In country there should be a BIG emphasis on the major pentatonic. Hell, if you mix 'em and throw in the major scale to boot, you got a lot of the fretboard covered.

On finger-picking, here's some free advice:

http://guitarvideos.com/dvd/pdf.htm

[bonefish]

this may be way off theoretically, but here's how i visualize the difference between major and minor pents-say you're in D, then your index finger is anchoring your shape in the root V at the seventh fret. that's your major. slide up three frets (i always think about the twelfth fret under my middle finger, YMMV) and that's your minor. in the major position is where you get those juicy harp tones, whole step bends, and one of my favorites, a whole step bend on the g string to match the fretted note on the b.

another classic country move is the M-M7-IV-V7 thang. that drop to the 7 (think "honkey tonk angels" works great in D) gives you some tasty tones to dick around with.

p.s. it's been about fifteen yrs since i even thought about theory, so i may be off base on the particulars. writing about music is like dancing about architechture!

[Tele-Bob]

I understand what you're saying bonefish but that very approach will get you into trouble because it makes the minor pent the center of your musical universe as all things branch out from there once you've contorted them a little to fit a skewed formula. The longer a person does that, the longer it will take to "undo" it when a guy finally decides to get down to some serious playing.

Music is laid out in a specific formula for a reason and the more we adhere to that formula, at least initially, the better equipped we are to take it further into creative expression. There's no way around it. A person needs to know the language of music before they can make those really fine, articulate expressions. To take the pentatonic minor scale as the basis from which all other music stems, is a very damaging, and way too often used concept among guitarists. Sure, you'll get by for many years playing some rock and blues, but when it comes to eminating the players you really respect, a guy has to take a different approach.
Take a Gmaj7 and Bbmaj7 progression. Play 8 beats per chord. Try coming from a minor pentatonic perspective on this one. You might be able to make it work, but there are much easier ways to do it.
There's just no replacement for woodshedding. Take it from pent minor tainted geezer who is struggling to change his ways and start to play some of the music I've always wanted to play.

[moonpie]

You guys are talkin' in a foreign language. Or dancing about architechture.


Keep this up I'm liable to learn something.

[Offshore Angler]

leviSS, It might help you to move from bluesy to country by an intermediate stop. Try some Dicky Betts style stuff. It's real melodic and easy to get by ear. Like bonefish says, try playing in G while soloing with your index on the 12th fret. Search out the melodies in Rambling Man or Jessica, and a few things will start to gell. (If you want to explore deeper, you have two modes in the G scale right there by only moving the F a halfstep.)

What you can do, which is way easy, is to think in terms of the open A chord. As you know by now, that is the base of the barre chord you use to play a D at the 5th fret, or an E on the 7th. What you do is move your index finger to the fret you would normally barre. The melody will almost always be right under your fingers there for a major progression, as well as some double stops to juice it up.

So let's say we're in D. Move your index to the 7th and barre with it. Now hit the strings and as the chord starts, hammer your ring finger onto the A string at the 9th. Hey! Where'd Jimi come from?! (See, Jimi was essentially a country player who moved it to a new level.) Now you have the basis of the Outlaws and Doobie Brothers grooves in a simple, single trick. Solo off of that same position and you'll be passing out of the pentwank mode in a hurry. Try it, and then we'll give you a new grip to compliment it.

This stuff is so dang easy when you come right down to it.

[frank thomson]

You guys are talkin' in a foreign language. Or dancing about architechture.


Keep this up I'm liable to learn something.

I-HEAR-DAT-!

MUMBO-JUMBO-MUMBO

[fezz parka]

Sabby is right on. Pents are fine as long as you mix up major & minor. There's a whole buncha guys who are driving fancy italian cars that use the pent scale. Me, I got a Camry:hee

Check out "Hayseeds Con Fezz" here. Major pent, minor pent, two string stuff and bends. Wilko did a kickass version of this too, maybe he'll post it. His advice about "the Grip" is right on as well. If it's uncomfortable at first, then lose the pick and just use your fingers. Snap and pop them strings. Switch to 09's. Burton, Lee, Hullet, and Mason all use 09's. Start twangin'! :yay

[Wilko]

Oh yeah I forgot about that.

Here's a some psuedo-country pickin by me:
http://www.ewilkins.com/music/wilko_hayseeds.mp3

[fezz parka]

It's good to hear that one again.:yay

[Wilko]

Man... I just listened to it.. I forgot that it was a very sloppy one-take jerk-off.

That's nasty...

[fezz parka]

I dunno. I liked it!

[OutlawSteph]

I've got books on country licks and southern rock which have helped me a lot. Go to elderly.com or musician's friend, and you'll find a lot. If I can hear it and have TAB, I can imitate it. Guitar Techniques magazine from the UK has occassional columns on country too.

[refin]

All your advice was good except that piece about the 7th. Most blues guys are all over that 7th note.

Try the 6th instead, for a real honky tonk flavor.

play an A chord on the fifth fret and put your pinky on the B string 7th fret. Play only the high four strins. Dig that!

Do the chord Wilco suggests here,but hammer the 7th fret(from the 5th fret) with your volume down.....do a volume swell,and as the volume increases,pull off from the 7th fret B to the 5th fret----pedal steel city.