Only if you you put one foot up on the monitor :heeOriginally Posted by chuckocaster
i think a guitar player should only be measured by how fast he can hammer on/pull off while pointing at the crowd with his freehand. call me crazy, but that takes true musicianship.
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
well i forgot to mention that and the fan that is at your feet pointing up so your mullet is "flapping in the breeze".
"don't worry, i'm a professional!"
And don't forget the smoochie face.
You must make the smoochie face!
"Well, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."
Elvis Costello
Tongue extended and waggling. Do not forget that essential element of musical expression. I've read accounts that though he was stone deaf at the time, Ludwig Van B ended a gig with a leg up on a cellist, baton wiggling at crotch position, finger pointed straight at Duke Ferdinand, and tongue extended and waggling. Then he dove into the kettle drum. What a nut!
s'all goof.
:yay
Amen on the ear fatigue mentioned above also. I just get up and leave the club if the guitarist is just going to shred every tune. Nothing against having the ability at all but it should be used in context, and yes, serve the music.
TT
On SmartPhones:
"Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But That only permitted other men with machines to enslave them." Frank Herbert.
serve the music? verses are just wasted time between solos...:rofl
"don't worry, i'm a professional!"
Yea, it sounded corny but the sentiment is correct. I knew there was a reason I wasn't a dead head.
Just another drive-by post while I'm at work...
;)
TT
On SmartPhones:
"Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But That only permitted other men with machines to enslave them." Frank Herbert.
This guy plays as fast as anybody I've seen, and I think it sounds good :)
Hot Wired
Speed as an end in itself is, IN MY OPINION, for kiddies.
An occasional flash is cool. Unending speed, for it's own sake, is miserably boring. Those who practice that have no standing with me as musicians at all. Those who like that sort of thing get no respect from me as music fans. YMMV.
It should be noted here that guitar players who play fast are not the enemy. Guitar players who attempt to play fast in public as a selfish display, and who really need to head back to the woodshed before torturing us further with their endless, souless, pattern chasing, pentatonic wanking ARE the enemy of whom we speak.
They don't come out to participate in a jam. They come out to try and show off. Most of them are pretty pathetic. I really dig a guitar player who can cut and burn with the best of 'em. I don't appreciate self centered jerks who just show up to try and impress everyone. We're not impressed.
If you're bored, you're not groovin'.
Well said TB.
If, at first you don't succeed, don't try skydiving.
Two leaps per chasm is fatal!
Whatever. It's all good. If you have fun and can sell it to the audience go for it. Music is about having fun. When did we all get so darned serious about it?
I wonder if banjo players have these discussions?
"He plays the banjo too fast! If he would slow down and feel the song more..." "Foggy Mountain Breakdown is pointless wanking!"
"No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim
Bob, I just reread your well written post. You are correct. I will add, however, that an open jam is an open jam. You get whomever shows up. And that includes players with limited skill and not alot of musical maturity.
Let's all be honest with ourselves here.
I don't think there are too many of us who didn't get into playing at a young age without at least some small inkling of the dream of being a rich guitar god who got more ass than a toilet seat. At that stage of the game we were into it just as much to be up on stage being ultra cool and the center of attention as being good musicians. Getting some hot chops on the guitar is really pretty easy if that's your only goal. But we all progressed at our own level - in my case, painfully slowly - to the point where we could call ourselves decent players.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is when we see these guys and gals we shouldn't treat them as lepers, but should be happy for them- that they are joining the fraternaty of guitar players. Instead of making fun of them, why not embrace them? They pose no threat to us. So they sat in with the band and they sucked. Who cares? It's an OPEN jam. They paid their two bucks at the door and have just as much right to go up and play as anybody else. I figure if we treat them well the ones with the talent and drive will develop into good players.
I'll be totally honest with you guys. "Some sucky guitar player wanking at warp speed with no concept of good tone trying to show off" is a perfect description of me during my first few forays into the open jam world. But thanks to the kindness and understanding of some of the local veteran players, I got to have fun and learn the craft to the limited extent I do today.
I often wonder if this phenomina of publicly chastising not-so-great players is really more about our own insecurities than anything else. When we criticize somebody's ability, isn't there an implied "compared to me" at the end of the sentence?
Well, that's my 2cents.
"No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim
...such an over-used saying!! :rolleyes: I prefer the saying,,,speed kills!! It applies to guitar playing too.
CT.
Last edited by CocoTone; 09-29-2004 at 06:34 AM.
:rl:rofl
"I'm gonna find myself a girl
that can show me what laughter means
And we'll fill in the missing colors
In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."
As a member in good standing of the Grateful Dead appreciation club, I have to say that I don't put Jerry's psychedelic noodlings on the same playing field with the 'guitar as calisthenics' hair metal tongue wagging spandex wearing shred crowd. Sure, some of those long jams were self-indulgent, but I think the aim was different, y'know? They were trying to take the music somewhere new, and while some of the songs may have borne no direct resemblance to a 3 1/2 minute perfectly polished pop nugget, they were 'compositions' and the long noodling was at times Coltranesque.
"I'm gonna find myself a girl
that can show me what laughter means
And we'll fill in the missing colors
In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."
Extended solos as mentioned above suck the life out of you. I napped at an Eric Johnson Concert, after 15 minutes, to me there was nothing new.
If I go to a Jam, I want to make the song nice. I know I have 20-30 seconds to put the right chops in. When I play by myself , I willl repeat a couple of times most of my licks to keep them in a perfect groove and to be able to "whip them out " at the right time, fast or slow. I don't shread. I haven't hear shread that ever made me want to by an album of the artist. I am ADD and repetition seriously bores me. Once I find I start to repeat, I immediately look for a way out of the solo.
Growing up in LA in the late 60's and early 70's was torture music wise. There was a flashy player at every jam. And they were far more interested in themselves, than others. I try to make my fellow jammers shine, so they feel good about themselves and playing with me. Then, I can have a good time. And if everyone is way better than me, I will just sing.
FWIW The fasted guy with the best chops,(fusion) is Allan Holdsworth, and Eddie Van Halen turned me on to him.
Sorry Cocco, for us flyboys - "Speed is Life" right pete? We're taught that from day 1!
"No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim
Heh, you got that right...tho in my old 172, low and slow is the ticket. Still faster than an airknocker, though.
There you go....while some of the songs may have borne no direct resemblance to a 3 1/2 minute perfectly polished pop nugget, they were 'compositions' and the long noodling was at times Coltranesque.
But some people will take any opportunity to slam something if they don't get it.
Dead jams have dynamics and mood shift. One thing they were NOT about is speed. It's about enjoying the ride to the destination.
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
Sometimes I flash somebody the finger when they do something that's not excellent.
That is not excellent!
"Well, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."
Elvis Costello
As a member in good standing of the Grateful Dead appreciation club, I have to say that I don't put Jerry's psychedelic noodlings on the same playing field with the 'guitar as calisthenics' hair metal tongue wagging spandex wearing shred crowd. Sure, some of those long jams were self-indulgent, but I think the aim was different, y'know? They were trying to take the music somewhere new, and while some of the songs may have borne no direct resemblance to a 3 1/2 minute perfectly polished pop nugget, they were 'compositions' and the long noodling was at times Coltranesque.
Man those dudes were so friggin` high on everything, that they didn`t know half the time how long they`d bin playin`. I agree tho,,wanking comes in all forms. Thats why I like the blues. Its honest, straight ahead music, and when you `wank`, you caint get away with it for long!!
CT.
Oh, the irony.
Agreed CT. Although some are good enough to get away with soloing over chorus after chorus, I try to limit myself. One time through is good, sometimes I get carried away and take 2. Three times, well, at that point, I've run out of things to say and usually at that point I falter...Thats why I like the blues. Its honest, straight ahead music, and when you `wank`, you caint get away with it for long!!
CT.
"I'm gonna find myself a girl
that can show me what laughter means
And we'll fill in the missing colors
In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."
Taste, occasional speed, and long but great solos can be found on Lou Reed's "Rock'n'Roll Animal". The intro to "Sweet Jane" is some of the best guitar playing ever. Hunter & Wagner friggin rock.
His version of Voodoo Chile just kills.I'll stay out of this one....however I'll offer up this..
Uli Jon Roth - ever hear him play Hendrix tunes?
a fine example of both speed and taste IMO
Got something on your mind? Please, be specific.
If ya don't know by now, don't mess with it.
More innuendo? What exactly are you saying?
I saw Uli w/Michael Schenker last week. Incredible. Roth opened with a long classical piece that was jawdropping. Fast . And emotional too (better not say that too loud or I'll get in trouble her).
Then he did some Vivaldi, then a few Scorpions songs (Virgin Killer, Sails of Charon) that smoked. Someone up front joked with him about Hendrix and he did a few solo guitar verses of Little Wing.
Great show from an incredible musician. More emotion in his guitar pick than ANY blues act I've seen( BB, Buddy, Bobby Blue, RL Burnside, Junior Kinbrough, etc... SRV...)
Then Schenker came on and blew Roth away.
Good show.
Cool thread. I am generally not a fan of music that contains shredding but I sure wish I could do it!
I have been a big UFO fan since high school and I saw them for the first time Saturday night. Vinnie Moore (a guy well-know among shred fans, apparently) is their guitar player right now. I was really worried about that...but he treated the Michael Schenker stuff with the respect it deserves (IMHO). He did unleash the hounds of shred a few times, but they were the right times and I give the guy all the credit in the world for that. He was a nice guy too...I got a pick. With a good shredder like Vinnie, it's almost a tension thing, where if a guy knows when to play fast it makes both the slower and faster stuff stand out in bold relief.
Cool, Dez, thanks for posting that...kinda funny we were doing that at the same time!
Actually, I'm saying:
Falstaff,
Cool!
Was Pete Way there? A friend said he had some problems getting a work permit to get into the USA...
Schenker did most of Strangers In The Night and lots from the first 2 MSG records.
OK, I just have to get into this one. I've had to chew on my 25 yo guitar player for unwarrented wankin' at a couple of gigs. After Saturday's show I complemented him on how good his leads sounded. He admitted that he slowed down. They turned out more melodic and much cleaner. My opinion is that he actually had time to think about THE SONG. Of course I have never had that kind of hand speed so I don't have to worry about it. M-n-M can go from blazing leads on Blind Man (Big Brother) to smooth country like Grandpa without skipping a beat. To me it's all about the song.
If you can't laugh at yourself, who can?
:troll Good thing you're only the authority in your own mind...
Speed playing is a skill that I admire. Speed and feeling are not mutually exclusive. Fuckwad Malmsteen himself has some beautiful passages on "Trilogy". Blues? Even that can get boring in the wrong hands...
"Power don't come from a badge or a gun. Power comes from lying. Lying big and gettin' the whole damn world to play along with you. Once you've got everybody agreeing with what they know in their hearts ain't true, you've got 'em by the balls."
Senator Roark - Sin City
Nope, but it usually needs context to be effective. Speed as a means to an end, rather than speed being its own end.
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
:yay
"Power don't come from a badge or a gun. Power comes from lying. Lying big and gettin' the whole damn world to play along with you. Once you've got everybody agreeing with what they know in their hearts ain't true, you've got 'em by the balls."
Senator Roark - Sin City
Dez-
My bubble got burst a couple of minutes before your post. :rl
Apparently it was a guy named Barry Sparks...although I had not a clue. I guess I shouldn't have thanked ol' Barry for all of the music through the years on his the way out of the bathroom, eh?
I would have been better off ignorant....he played a Firebird, looked kinda old and a bit rough...he was Pete Way enough for me. Darn it. The band was good...I shook Bonham's hand, he was cool. Mogg was very shy. Mogg did dedicate "Love to Love" to Jason, as his father's anniversary was the night before. A nice gesture to dedicate the tune to Jason rather than John, which would have gotten the cheap applause. If you can see them this time, it's worth it IMHO.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote