im a truly horrible guitar player with great equipment. im sick of sucking so can anyone offer me any ideas as to how to get better. i will get up and play for like 2 and a half minutes before i realize i have no other original licks to play and im getting sick of playing the rythym part to the entire kill em all album by metallica over and over and over. someone help me...i wanna play like srv but i dont know how to play any sevenths, ninth chords let alone assemble a decent melody with them
Take lessons. Learn to understand music and you'll go a long way to expanding your horizons.
Listen to music different than that which you usually listen to. What DO you listen to on a regular basis. Learn to play something totally different than what you listen to. learn how those players get their sound. Trying to COPY stuff is silly, but it doesn't hurt to learn the essence of some music and then apply your own stamp.
I think you could do a lot worse than the music of Delbert McClinton, Lee Roy Parnell and T. Graham Brown. It's a great place to start.
Pete has good advice. If you wanna do "blues" like you've described above, listen to that type of music. Learn the major and minor pentatonic scales. Play along with the records. Learn the chords. They're easy to play. You gotta put in the time to learn the stuff.:yayOriginally Posted by itbepopples
ive taken a year of music theory at school and i think im gunna take applied guitar music theory next year its just so frustrating sitting down and not seeming to get any better. GRRR! thx for the suggestions pbradt and fezz
by simple "process of elimination" you'll eventually get better (I did, so can ANYbody else!) if you just "practice" A LOT!
With all due respect to the Spanish language: "El ejercicio hace maestro"
...which translates to: "...the exercise makes master."
True. It worked for me, too, and I am far from a natural musician. I never took lessons, but I spent a lot of time playing along with records, trying to figure out chords, what notes sound good with them, etc. Then you try them without the record, and polish it up. Repeat.
Rule number one, Use your ears first and your fingers second.
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
You are probably not a terrible guitarist and you owe it to yourself to stop even thinking such things because it will only discourage and frustrate you. Have patience with yourself, it takes a lot of time and devotion to gain skill.
The reward is in the journey because really, there is no destination. You will NEVER get to a point where you say "I'm good enough. I think I'll just sit here." Every musician continues the process their entire life.
I sometimes get discouraged and frustrated with guitarin' and other things but if you can stop, take a step back, and put things in perspective you give yourself something to be proud of. What was your playing like a year ago? Or a month ago?
It's no competition, dude. If you're hanging around with players who are out there to cut heads, get away from them. If you can make some sounds that make YOU happy (and I strongly suspect that you can) that is all that really counts.
...okay, it's cool to get chicks too. If you can make a sound that makes YOU happy and gets chicks, THAT is all that counts.
Great advice from these guys. Another thing that usually works is either find some other guys to play with or join a band. Your chops will get better quick fast in a hurry. Good luck and 'keep pickin' and grinnin' (famous words from the master himself, Mr. Lester Polfus).:)
some "parting" wisdoms:
(1) There will ALWAYS be someone BETTER than you!
(2) There will ALWAYS be someone WORSE than you!
Feel comfortable being "in the middle" like the millions of other guitar players (you & me) who aren't:
Chet Atkins (d)
Andre Segovia (d)
Les Paul
Stevie Ray Vaughan (d)
Danny Gatton (d)
Eric Clapton
Roy Buchannan (d)
Charlie Christian (d)
Dick Dale
Duane Eddy
Django Rheinhardt (d)
Lenny Breau (d)
etc....
note: (d) = deceased!
There are also some excellent books out there now (the John Ganapes "Blues You Can Use" series is a good starter - it covers all common blues chords plus pentatonics and more), and they come with CD's too. Search Amazon. Also some great DVD's (the Greg Koch SRV ones are good).
Playing better is kind of like losing weight - you gotta make a plan and stick to it, but there is no great secret. To lose weight you eat less and exercise more. To play better get some lessons or instructional stuff and practice more.
And listen to the guys here -they gots more experience than an experienced thing!
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained as stupidity"
I suck to hell and back. If I was there I'd challenge to the battle of the worst guitarist in the world. The national air guitarist championship are on today here (the WC are in this country too), I won't bother attending that either, I am that bad!
Anyway, I'd suggest blues you can use too. It's fun and simple. The first lesson of the book is available through fenderplayersclub.com as a PDF. There are one or two other useful things there too. There's even a BYCU study forum: http://www.guitarprinciples.com/dc/d...topics&forum=7
http://www.torvund.net/guitar/BookOfMonth/2002-07.asp is supposed to be a really good book (as is the linked Torvund-site) too.
And I'd lose to you on gear too! Hey, I have second rate gear that I'm almost happy with. Almost...! But I am proud to know the basic chord theory, and I can email you a chart (the size of a credit card) that will let you get to all the chords you ever need.
I've posted here on the woodshed forum my basic jazz chords thingy a few times, and that'll teach you to build a 9th or 7th chord too.
A site I really liked has the basic 9th 7th chords laid-out too:
http://www.swingblues.com/swing.htm
Some say http://www.12bar.de/ is really good on basic lessons as well.
...AND I haven't even listened to the Kill'Em All album all the way through, let alone learned it! I did see the band live a few months ago, though.
Kill em all still rocks! Masters is still my favorite though. :)
If I may post a few suggestions...
I played piano before playing guitar (as a kid). That helped me develop my ear. When I started playing guitar, I learned the inor pentatonic scale by myself, without looking in books, simply by *LISTENING*! In my lifetime (which admitedly, is rather short), I have found that 99% of so-called self-proclaimed "guitarists" don't listen. They don't know how to listen. They know how to read a chart, but don't know how to improvise or listen in order to be able to emulate.
Knowing all the theory in the world won't help you play Blues or master it, much less play like SRV. I play like SRV and the process was long and rather hard, but I listened! I spent countless months in front of my stereo listening to SRV and copying this or that lick.
For example, the Albert King-inspired huge bends in Texas Flood are something I master easily, yet nobody I've ever seen or listened to has ever been able to do it properly. They don't have the touch, the feel, they overbend or underbend and the vibrato is all wrong. Why? Simply because they don't listen.
Give yourself little challenges and stick to them.
Also, everybody I've ever seen applies these challenges the wrong way. Let me explain myself. Let's say I tell you "Start by getting the intro to Texas Flood down pat." Everybody starts at full speed! HELLO!!!! Of course, you'll fuck up 500 million times over! Do it ultra-super slow and progress in speed until you reach the "correct" speed. How many so-called guitarists have I heard play a song only to completely mess it up, because they have ZERO finesse?
Start slow and build up.
The number one problem associated with guitarists who want to play Blues is that they have a disgusting vibrato. Listen to SRV's vibrato. Heck, if you want a master, listen to Scott Henderson's vibrato. He bends the note, holds it for a microsecond before starting to jiggle it extremely delicately, then a bit more and more quicker. That's the definition of finesse.
Don't hide behind effects. It's easier, simpler, and definitely won't scare you like simply plugging your Strat in your amp with *maybe* an overdrive pedal set to minimum gain, but it's perfect for illustrating your faults and showing you how much finesse still needs to be applied to get whichever lick down fine.
Oh, and one last thing... It took me at least 2 intensive years before I started to sound convincing, so don't expect a quick fix or an easy ride. You'll have to pour sweat and tears into this. Whenever I play SRV, I sweat like a crazy maniac and my fiance *insists* that I take a shower afterwards. It's a physical way of playing, for sure. Get the Live At El Mocambo video and watch it 100 times over. Stop playing power chords.
Everything in this post is what I can say to somebody stuck in a rut who wants to "get" SRV.
Good luck. And,... if you need lesson help, I'm here.
Here's an example of me after 3 years of playing guitar playing my version of Testify. http://www.geocities.com/strats991/testify2.mp3
yes! that clip is amazing i coulda sworn it was stevie ray himself!..one of the things ive been working on is my vibrato...the way slash vibratos and srv vibratos makes me hafta work my ass off in order to be able to do that. my brother played guitar back in the good ole days late 60s early 70s...he hasnt seriously played in years and he still kicks my ass cuz he knows all the great sounding chords etc. either way im gunna be working real hard on this. thanx for all the suggestions guys!
The guys said it all... My approach to learning was playing, playing, playing and listening, listening, listening. I used to play along with my records all day everyday, over and over. Don't just try to copy one special artist; listen to a good variety of players and just play along. Don't get discouraged, it will take time.
One important thing: Get a metronome and practise to it, too, both rhythm and lead playing. A decent timing is as important as (if not more important than) knowing the good licks. Any player that relies on his drummer timing-wise is a fool.
"If you wind up with a boring, miserable life because you listened to your mom, your dad, your teacher, your priest, or some guy on TV telling you how to do your shit, then YOU DESERVE IT."
- Frank Zappa -
These are are excellent ideas, but just thought I'd chime in cause I got a different thought to add:
Perhaps you are just in a rut and need something really different to get your passion back up. You got all really great gear you said and I bet that helped, for a while. But how about getting a "bad" guitar to challenge you. Or just raise the action on one and put on some bigger gauge strings? I recently got an old Kay archtop with cool pickup and the action is kinda high and you really have to work for every note. It's not really that bad of a guitar, really pretty cool, great old vibe, action just a little higher than my Strats and with thick fat strings. Every note counts and you feel you have accomplished something as well as giving your fingers a good workout. You got to tame the beast! Then when you pickup your best gear again, you appreciate it more and feel the development and strength in your fingers.
Another idea: try something new, like learning slide (if you haven't yet). This old Kay with the higher action helped me find that "doorway" into slide playing. Slide is great training for the ear too. You listen more because you have to find the correct notes and the in-between micotones. You start by trying to find the notes and scales you know, thus improving your knowledge of this too. Then go back to your favorite guitar and you will discover how you have improved. That's the secret, a little improvement can really boost your confidence and attitude.
along the same lines, start listening to something completely different from the norm. i'm sure you'll here some new things that spark your interest. this is of course you're in a rut.
i am personally the type of player that absorbs as opposed to trying to learn stuff note for note.
but never put yourself down. we all go thru these stages of bad self confidence. but i think the trick is finding what you do as a player. for me i'm a rhythm player. it took me awhile to realize it, everyone else was taking solos and whatnot and i never really could. sure i can fake a couple, but i am no lead player in any sense of the word. i used to get down on myself until i realized i'm good at what i do. then i started listening a lot more to people like keef and neil young who are both rhythm players that play lead from time to time.
so keep your head up and stay with it. guitar is the funnest instrument to play. to quote spinal tap, "have a good time all the time, that's my philosophy marty."
"don't worry, i'm a professional!"
I can't believe what I'm reading here! For all you guys who suck...hey...give me your equipment and take up needlepoint or something!!!...
I'm kidding...but for a reason. Don't you even think of giving up....true story on the way..listen:
My little brother sucked..I could play circles around him...he was a one note wonder, couldn't play anything but a few open cords...he'd whine and bitch until I got so sick of hearing about it that I had to leave the house...I did...US Army (thanks again Richard Nixon)
I came home after being gone for a year and a half...this kid is playing bass like Chris Squire, guitar like Jimmy Paige...I SHI*...he's got a full time job and playing his butt off...owns a Les Paul, a Rickenbacker bass, Ampeg SVT with 8x10 cabinet and a Guild jumbo acoustic...and a real sweet pre CBS Deluxe...working 50 hours a week and comes up with chops like that?
What happened was that he took some lessons and played with a guy who was better than he was and ...that simple. 18 months and my brother was, by 1971 standards a frigging monster.
Currently he just screws around playing all of Larry Carlton's solos note for note and teaches guitar for a living...transcribes all of this stuff for his students...he's also an acoustic fingerpicking god...go figure....the kid that sucked is the best guitar player I have ever known personally. It's insane...you can tell him, "play some Robben Ford, play some SRV stuff...how about that solo in Kid Charlamaigne?...and what about Peg?...I listen, watch and wimper like a schoolgirl...amazing.
AS my brother CONSTANTLY tells me, because I'm the one who whines now, "hey, you ougta take a few lessons once in awhile and practice more...I can work you in at my weekend rate"...he's a smartass too...
me?... I'm just a
PS....stay away from people who are just in it for their ego to be inflated...music isn't about egos...it's a gift....hang out with people who know that.
Along the same lines... get into a band where the players are a bit better than you. You pick up SO much more when someone shows you. I'm the kind of guy that does not do well in lessons, but I jam with a guy, see them play it, I go home and nail it.
The Best Guitar Photos On The Net!
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Some great suggestions here. Here's mine. There is a wealth of material out there these days in the form of book/CD packs . You name the style, mode, scale or whatever and you'll find it. That's how I've been learning to play. I'm not saying that I've got it all mastered, but I've got the materials I've mentioned in rock, rockabilly, blues, jazz, scale and mode studies, I've got some of the "Jam With..." series books that are great. All of these CD's have quality full band backing tracks minus the guitar, so you're free to do what you want. For someone like me who works nights and really can't get out to jam with people these book/CD's are a God-send.
Like Vics said. Jamey Aebersold is your friend.
Couldn't agree more...after looking at what's available in music/tab CD and DVD instructional material out there, I think I may go shopping for a few items.
Don't think you have to practice for 12 hours a day to get good. Play lots to develop your fingering and stuff, but LISTEN to music when your not playing. If i feel like i'm in a musical rut and playing all the same old same old, i just put the guitar down and go listen to music, or search to discover new music that i've never heard before. Play lots, but listen lots too. Its almost as important. I'd say it helps just to watch people play guitar too. Wether its live at the local bar or watching a Led Zeppelin DVD at home, i've always felt that watching professionals play made me improve much faster than i would've otherwise. All these other suggestions are good too (but who am i to say that...) Just don't stop. And telling yourself you suck doesn't help either ;)
Oh yeah, one more thing I forgot to mention that you might want to check out. Get the John Petrucci DVD "Rock Disipline." This is the first DVD I bought by a well known player. I had a pre-conceived notion that it was going to be some hot shot playing all these impossible solos for us mere mortals to try and copy. I could'nt have been more wrong. This DVD is full of great and practical exercises to help develop strenght in both hands as well as speed and accuracy. I'm being very honest about this. When I first got this DVD I spent 2 weeks playing nothing but some of the exercises that were presented. Slow at first then slowly increasing the tempo. I'm not saying that I've got it as fast as him because I don't, but after that 2 weeks I noticed a definate improvement with my picking. Things that I was struggling with I could suddenly play with much greater ease. And I'm talking about things that I'd been practicing for a good 6 months previous. I highly recommend you check out this DVD as well as some of the CD/book packs that are out there. Keep jamming!!
Perspiration! Listen! (Oft repeated advice).
Music comes from your heart/soul/mind. Your fingers/mouth and instrument
merely translate it into sound to share it with others.
Lessons, Lessons and More lessons.
Jamming, Jamming and more Jamming.
Every single time I get together with friends to jam I learn something very useful.
brianf
Oh Man!!! I never knew Fender made amps too!!!
itbepopples - very simple. And in easy logical chunks.
1) Go through you CD's and find a solo you like. Naturally, don't pick a Vince Gill or EVH. Just some nice Robben Ford or BB King or Tom Petty song (Campbell is a guitar hook genious).
2) Listen to it over and over.
3) Play it. Try to figure out each note.
4) Learn the grips. Here's the fun part. As you learn the notes, you'll find your fingers being asked to do stupid things. If the fingering is too hard, you're just in the wrong place. We guitar players are basically, too lazy to have real jobs so we don't do things the hard way. So find that impossible to finger note somewhere else, or the notes leading to it. After a doing this a while, you'll discover there are only about 4 or 5 grips that guitar players use. Once you discover them, and get a feel for how each sounds, you'll even start to recognize them while you're listening. It may take a while, but it will pay off.
5) Practice, learn scales and modes. When you have the grips, and can relate them to scales and modes when you listen, you'll get where you can dang near nail a classic solo the first time you try it.
This is a differnt technique than many espouse, but I've seen it work.
The best thing you can do right now, however, is find someone else to play with. Guitar playing is all about knowing the tricks of the trade and it's a heckofalot easier to have someone show you than to try to figure it out yourself.
"No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim
Whatever you do, do not put on a Danny Gatton instructional tape. It is supposed to teach,but all that happens is jaw dropping and drooling,along with stupification.
Itbepopples: Come on down to the next NJ Jam in Freehold on Jan. 16th. It doesn't matter how well you think you play. It's bound to give you more confidence and motivation to get better.
see post below
Last edited by Moe Humble; 01-07-2005 at 04:23 AM. Reason: PLEAZE DELETE this post... the duplication following is still good.
Moe Humble
= = = = = = =
Pay NO attention to that man behind the curtain....
I know I sucked for many, miserable years as a guitar player. No rhythm, no tone, no licks --- just bad, painful pitiful stuff. You will soon see people stop looking at you with sympathy and charity in their hearts once you start to deliver recognizable music!
You MUST learn to play without "crutches". It is good to listen to as many different things (styles) as you can and use them as models, etc. Practice other scales than the pentatonic. major/minor/whole tone & arpeggios (single note rendition of chords - not played in the chord position, but up and down the strings and accross the frets)
I am saying you must be able to stand on your own to play not only the rhythmic fundamentals of the WHOLE song, but 'own' it. Once you have mastered the 'ownership' of the fundamentals - rhythm, root movement, song structure (a-b-a-b-c-c-a-b-d), chord structure/coloration, THEN it is time to start learning to sing the lick you want to play. Learn to sing that lick exactly. Play it slowly by yourself, over and over until you get it. Then speed it up to tempo. Then I would say you should be sailing along..
Now to improvise:
These lines do not have to be exactly like the record, either.... you are improvising by creating a melodic idea that harmonizes over the chords....It can be exact or similar to the record or based upon the same scale structure, or it can be all your own. Sing the licks while you are playing them...
Play with as many other people as you can.
Moe Humble
= = = = = = =
Pay NO attention to that man behind the curtain....
At least you recognize your current limitations. That's the first step to improvement.
Might I also suggest a day off now and then? If I haven't picked up the axe for a day or two, I seem to come back fresher.
The joy of even playing and sucking is way greater than the joy of not being able to play at all. Everyone has thier own way of learning and retaining things.
If you want to play the blues, you have to listen to it. I used to listen to a lot of metallica about 10 years ago, I could play a few of their songs, but what I really love now is the blues. I'm to the point where I can hear a rhythm track and in my mind think of what notes would sound good on top of it. I can't play all those notes, I didn't say I was good, but I can at least hear them and know they sound good. There are so many great blues albums out there, go find them and listen to them.
You can use the powertab editor to learn songs. If a song is really hard, I slow down the tempo on it. I download the tabs at powertabs.net or something like that. I also listen to the album to really try and get it down.
THE MOST IMPORTANT THING to do is to learn how to play the notes MOST EFFICIENTLY. Use alternate picking, really think about what would be the best way to play the notes. Learn the important scales and practice them over and over with a metronome untli you can play them FAST. Playing some runs requires you to properly position your hand in certain ways. You can find lots of lessons online. If you balance your practice time between repetitive lessons and learning your favorite songs, you will get it down.
Jump into the JamZone here and at the LPF (www.lespaulforum.com) - I am just getting into it and the gang is great and encouraging.
All the advice here is great - print it out and use it. I would only add that you might try listening to jazz (smooth jazz is probably best to begin with)...jazz guitarists are masters in their own right and can really help open your horizons as to what can go over a chord or two! ;)
~A~
I can't really give you any advice - there's so much to digest already in this thread that any more advice would lead to cerebral indigestion!! All I can give you is my own experience. I started playing guitar back in 1972 when I got my first guitar for my 18th birthday (a Yamaha acoustic, which I still have). I went and got myself a Beatles songbook with all the chord diagrams in them - there were no tabs back then. Started practicing Love Me Do and Please Please Me, then I would play along to the records. Simple stuff. Then I progressed to the "rock du jour", which back then meant Led Zep, The Who, Floyd, and all that stuff back in the 70s. Then as the years went by I played in a few "bands" - nothing serious, just a few guys who liked to get together and play and jam. My chops progressed along nicely. Then in the 80s I got married and started a family, which meant the guitar got put away for many, many years. The inevitable rust set in. Then a few years ago I started getting into Rush - now that's complex stuff! Then two Christmasses ago my late sister (God bless her soul) got me a Squier Strat. And I really started getting back into it. And then I discovered all these very good web sites devoted to guitars and playing, seems like there's thousands of them. And, in a nutshell, that's where I'm at right now. I've rediscovered the passion I had in my younger days, and I'm having more fun than ever. And my playing has improved dramatically over the past year. So, in my opinion, I think it's all about passion, commitment, and plain old hard work. I think it's much more important than the technical side of things.
Zen Guitar by Philip Toshio Sudo is a very hip book. Not instructional, so much as guitar-philosophy.
Your body and mind are listeners, to your soul.
Tell yourself you suck and your body and :blbros mind will make that come true.
Tell your body and mind you are improving as a player and musician...and follow up with conscious learning and playing.
Middle age is not for sissies. Peace, Bros and Sisters. Make music, not hate.
Hey BigNote,
You have it SO true.
Of late, 'been working with a guy who is disabled (some might call it "crippled"), has cerebral palsy.
He would be in Heaven on earth if he could play as "well" as we who "suck."
It's all a matter of perspective. Dig...and be real thankful...every day...for what you have.
Peace, Bros and Sisters, make music, not hate.
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