rcording electric guitars?

[bonefish]

anybody care to share thier favorite tricks, tips, recipes. i wasn't crazxy about the tones on our last demo, and since we dicovered we've got a little moire time we're gonna re-cut some stuff, but this time we want the electrics to be up to snuff. so, any help would be appreciated.

btw, i play a tele w/ a hot lead stack in the bridge, a lonestar strat w/ a coil tap on the pearly gates, and a stock es 135 gothic through an ampeg RI reverberocket, and i've got a boss ds1, eh small clone, dunlop crybaby and a voodoo lab proctavia on my board.

shane plays either a samick LP copy or a squire strat through a blues jr w/ a boss ch 1 and a turbo tubescreamer.

jimmy plays a no name LP or an ibanez talman (w/ HB's) through a tube works combo and a boss metal zone.

we've got a bunch of sm58s, a 57, and a mca sp1 ldc for mics.

[chuckocaster]

57's are key here. they are the ROCK AND ROLL guitar mic. the trick is to find the sweet spot on the speaker for what you are going for. on axis, off axis. even coincident pair. i feel bad for saying this but do a search on micing techniques. cause i feel like i'm bad at explaining stuff to other people.

anyways, the real trick is getting each guitar to fit into its own sonic niche. this can be done with eq, or stereo field placement. the hardest part is getting each guitar to sound different from the other guitars. and also a lot of the time instruments will be tracked so that they occupy the same frequency range. and then they will fight each other and it will be hard to hear them clearly and seperately from eachother.

so if all three of you guys are trying to get the same tone, then the guitars are never really going to mesh.

so far on the album i'm recording for myself, i have found myself fighting myself over guitar tones. i like a decently bright, punchy, midrangey, slightly crunchy guitar tone. but if i record too much of that then all of that space will be taken up and then the cymbals will sound weird cause they can only be heard at certain frequencies that they normally wouldn't be heard at.

i hope this makes sense. i've kinda rambled a little hear. i hope you don't mind. i started writing and that was the tangent that i got off on.

also i would like to say that i think engineering is key to making a good recording. "i'll fix it in the mix" is bullshit. you cannot polish a turd. trust me, it doesn't work.

so find something on micing techniques on the web, or buy a couple books. and get to reading, there is a lot of stuff out there to help. and it may seem like a lot, but it is really worth. trust me, i've made a lot more money recording and mixing bands than i have playing music.

and most of all, it just takes practice, just like the guitar. so don't get frustrated and down on yourself about this stuff. pratice and patience will pay off.

words of wisdom ffrom a

[bonefish]

thanks chuck. i just picked up a couple of books and have checked out a few mic sites. i'm getting a pretty good feel for the theories involved, just need to get into the basement and start experimenting. luckily we have a little more time this time around. i'm not too worried about our tones getting in each others way, as you can see, we have a pretty wide variety of axes to choose from, and we're all quite different stylistically. jimmy is a straight up rock rhythm player-he gets locked on and he's like a machine. shane is mr. nuance, adds these brilliant little fills from outta left field that never cease to amaze me. and me, well i subscribe to the theory that keith richards is God. i try to do a hybrid sort of lead/rhythm thing. i also play "the bits called the leads". not really by choice, mind you. i never considered myself a lead player, i just sorta fell into 'cuz i was the only one ballsy (stupid? arrogant? drunk?) enough to play solos.

one thing i dicovered last time around is the mic picks up way more ditortion than you would think. my live tone is pretty moderate gain (about 3-4on my ampeg, w/ the master about the same) but it sounds like a lot more on tape. maybe i should just crank the clean channel.

oh yeah, you ever play around with double micing (57 close and condensor distant, possibly)?

[cooltone]

one thing i dicovered last time around is the mic picks up way more ditortion than you would think. my live tone is pretty moderate gain (about 3-4on my ampeg, w/ the master about the same) but it sounds like a lot more on tape. maybe i should just crank the clean channel.

I was going to comment on that same thing. I believe that many people feel that in order to get a 'full' guitar sound, they need more gain. You are exactly right that the mic seems to pick up more.
I think that having just a slight gain (and maybe doubling guitar parts with a clean sound) will net more satisfying results, and could actually sound more full.
:2c

[bonefish]

exactly, cooltone. my ampeg's got a KILLER clean channel, but i rarely use it live. something i need to explore.

[chuckocaster]

i have, and still do from time to time the close/distant thing. if i do it, i only do it for one of the guitar parts. works really great for a "key" part. i also like the coincident pair of 57's on an amp. doesn't seem like it would work that great, but it really does.

if you guys are using small amps, try putting them up on a chair when recording. getting a small amp up off the ground really helps the amp breathe. hell, even keith does this with his bassmans.

have fun man, i still have to check out your last recording. i haven't been on a computer fast ebough to download that stuff in a timely manner. keep rockin bro.

[fezz parka]

Bonefish,

When I mic an amp, I use a 57 and a LDC. The 57 on the outer edge of the speaker, the LDC between the cone & the rim. Watching for phasing, move the LDC around until you find a sweet spot.

Check out this Jim Scott interview...

[BLUELOU]

BONEFISH I ALSO USE SM57'S LIKE ON MY MARSHALL I THROW IT OFF AXIS AND ON MY LOWER SPKR ON THE RIGHT OF THE 4/12 CAB IT SOUNDS KILLER THEN IF IM RECORDING I ALSO USE A CAD CONDENSER MIC PLACED 1 FOOOT IN FRONT OF THE CAB AS A WETTER POINT TO ADD LIVELINESS ITS KILLER ANF FULL WHEN I MIX THESE SIGNALS TOGETHER LIVE

GOOD LUCK BUT TO ME THE SHURES SM57'S AND SM58'S ARE THE STAPLE OF THE INDUSTRY FOR EONS AND EDDIE VAN HALEN USED A 58 FF THE CONE I FOUND OUT I HAVE A PICTURE OF HIM WITH HIS MIC PLACEMENTS ON HIS 4/12 CABS IN HIS HOME STUDIO
AND HIS STUDIO WAS MESSY WIRRES ALL OVER THE FLOOR CIGG BUTTS EVERYWHERE ON FLOOR BUT HE GETS KILLER TONES

[Old Tele man]

RECORDING TIP--use a 2.2K/220 Ohm resistor "voltage-divider" network across the amp's speaker for a "direct" amp signal into the mixing board along with the microphone input...provides miriad mixing possibilities...IF there's no ground-loop or 60Hz buzz!

[Wilko]

Definitely use less distortion, specially when recording.

Reverb Rocket at a gig needs no fuzz to sound great. Same in the studio. A good tube amp doesn't have a "clean channel" It gets dirty when you turn it up.

Just get a 57 right in front of it. Amp bout 1 foot from a wall. Turn it up to 5-7 and play it.

[Heritage 80]

A lot of great advice here! SM-57's are hard to beat for electric guitar. chuckocaster's advice to "have fun" is right on. Experiment. If you can possibly use two tracks and mix & bounce them down to one, you can do all kinds of great stuff:

- close mic close + distant mic placement (Jimmy Page's famous mantra: "distance = depth")

- close mic + a condenser mic on the strings to pick up the attack (isolated as much as possible from your amp). When you mix in the "pick attack track" with the amplified close mic, it can really make things interesting.

- mic the front and back of you Ampeg (I love small Ampegs by the way! I have 3 Gemini I's, and they are really great amps)

The possibilities are endless!

[Heritage 80]

Heritage80....don't forget one of my favorites.

mix of :
close mic with a SM57
and direct with a H&K RedBox

I've got to check out one of those RedBox's Spose. I hear great things about them as mic replacements! Are their any phase cancellation issues when you use both the mic and the RedBox?

[pc]

I do exactly what Fezz does--57 on the outside and LDC between the cone & rim. It works wonders for me, and I'm willing to bet the LDC I use (AKG C-4000) isn't nearly as nice as what Mr. Parka uses.

Oh, BTW, this is for use in my studio. For live use it's just the 57 slightly off-center of the cone.

[fezz parka]

I do exactly what Fezz does--57 on the outside and LDC between the cone & rim. It works wonders for me, and I'm willing to bet the LDC I use (AKG C-4000) isn't nearly as nice as what Mr. Parka uses.

You'd be surprised. I've got an AT3035, and a Rode NT1, but I use my $39.00 MCA SP1 all the time. This cheap ass mic delivers! :yay

[grito]

Also, keep the effects out and mix them in later.