Re: That One Special Amp ??????
I've found a good jazz sound with my SS Fender with upgraded speaker so I've got that covered, and find that on my Vox AD30VT spend about 90% of the time on either of the two Fender amp models - the Black 2X12 (Twin) or Tweed 4X10 ('59 Bassman). I had a RI Bassman and sold it like a dumbass when the band I used it with fell apart.
Dont mean to hijack this thread but -
@Fezz and Kap'n - how similar in sound is a tweed (5E5, 5E7, 5F4) to the 5F6 Bassman? Seems with the different tone stack and long tail PI the Bassman is in class somewhere in between the Tweeds and BF Fenders. Yes? With Webers 10% off until 7/31 I'm really itching to try one of these.
Re: That One Special Amp ??????
I think you'll sound like you no matter what you plug into. It's in the hands right?
But, to get the sound you want, for the type of music and the venue, you might need more than one amp if you're not relying on the PA to mic and mix into a monitor feed for the band.
My old Pro Reverb does everything I could want from two 12s, Ted's 12F150s and a pair of 6L6s but I don't think it would be clean enough to do funk rhythm in a horn band if I'm standing next to the horns.
I don't have the need for one but I'd like to mess around with an old TR for fun.
Kap'n and Fezz are rightfully proud and satisfied with their Weber kits and I'm on my second DIY amp. A tweed super copy that I might get a chance to finish this week.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
Dont mean to hijack this thread but -
@Fezz and Kap'n - how similar in sound is a tweed (5E5, 5E7, 5F4) to the 5F6 Bassman? Seems with the different tone stack and long tail PI the Bassman is in class somewhere in between the Tweeds and BF Fenders. Yes? With Webers 10% off until 7/31 I'm really itching to try one of these.
I thought about this last night. After putting down Teagle & Sprung's Fender Amps book, good as it is, it doesn't describe the different amp's character which is something frequently asked here.
How about it Lily & the Mods? Can we create a Tweed/BF/SF reference area that gives a brief description of each model's (and their variants) sound, volume etc?
TT
Re: That One Special Amp ??????
Quote:
Originally Posted by TT100
How about it Lily & the Mods? Can we create a Tweed/BF/SF reference area that gives a brief description of each model's (and their variants) sound, volume etc?
That could be cool. Something I think would be useful would be a construction of relative volume levels of these amps on clean and distorted scales assuming speakers of reasonable efficiency. As an example (incomplete, ovbiously).
Clean scale:
Tweed Champ
Champ
BF/SF Princeton
Brown Princeton
5E3 Deluxe
BF/SF Princeton Reverb
BF/SF Deluxe
BF/SF Deluxe Reverb
5F4 Super
5E7 Bandmaster
BF/SF Vibrolux Reverb
BF/SF Super Reverb
BF/SF Twin Reverb
Quad Reverb
Super Six Reverb
Dirty Scale
Tweed Champ
Champ
BF/SF Princeton
BF/SF Princeton Reverb
Brown Princeton
BF/SF Deluxe
BF/SF Deluxe Reverb
BF/SF Vibrolux Reverb
5F4 Super
5E7 Bandmaster
BF/SF Super Reverb
Twin Reverb
Quad Reverb
Super Six Reverb
Re: That One Special Amp ??????
Where's the 5F6 Bassman in the scale? I know it's an incomplete list, but the 5F6 has been considered by some to be one of Fenders best sounding amps.
Re: That One Special Amp ??????
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
...how similar in sound is a tweed (5E5, 5E7, 5F4) to the 5F6 Bassman? Seems with the different tone stack and long tail PI the Bassman is in class somewhere in between the Tweeds and BF Fenders
Quote:
Originally Posted by TT100
I thought about this last night. After putting down Teagle & Sprung's Fender Amps book, good as it is, it doesn't describe the different amp's character which is something frequently asked here.
How about it Lily & the Mods? Can we create a Tweed/BF/SF reference area that gives a brief description of each model's (and their variants) sound, volume etc?
TT
Yes, that's what I was wondering, I'm very familiar with the 5F6 Bassman sound as it was my main amp for several years. (I liked it better than my SFSR) I'd like that sound in a smaller (and lighter) package. The 5E7 looks ideal from that standpoint. From what I've read it's pretty close, but the 5E7 will breakup earlier and has more of a pronounced midrange.
I keep thinking of HR (Fezz will appreciate this). With the AD30VT I play a lot on the Bassman model (Tweed 4X10), and it reminds of HR saying "When people say they know what they like, they're actually saying they like what they know." In regards to this sound (of the Bassman) I like what I know.
Re: That One Special Amp ??????
There are models that are pretty familiar in the virtual sense to those of us who have never played them. What I mean is that amps like the tweed deluxe and champs have been discussed many times regarding their overdrive, clean tones, etc, but not so much has been discussed about tweed Bandmasters, Pros, Harvards, Tremolux or even the operation and response of the stand alone reverb units. And while not wanting to stray too far from the intended purpose by including FX like the reverb units, how about the Vibratone rotating speaker cab?
Back to the point, I'm hoping to have uncovered the mystery of which amps in the long Fender line actually overlap in terms of sound and character. Say, if I like a tweed Bassman sound but don't need the power or size what, if anything in the line, would come closest to the sound at lower power & smaller weight?
Some have very similar circuits like the tweed Super and tweed Pro but are pushing very different speakers. Also the BFVR and BFPro R. Very similar but different.
Anyway, the info provided already is a very good start!
TT
Re: That One Special Amp ??????
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
Where's the 5F6 Bassman in the scale? I know it's an incomplete list, but the 5F6 has been considered by some to be one of Fenders best sounding amps.
I'd put a 5F6 just before the BF/SF Super Reverb for clean, and between it and a twin for dirt.
[edit - while the 5F6 is a favored amp, the "holy-grail" version is generally accepted to be the 5F6-A. There are some small differences, IIRC, in the feedback loop, and the presence/absence of grid resistors]
You've also got to realize that I haven't necessarily played every single Fender amp, and some of it is conjecture going by general design, watts, and speakers. Somebody else could easily trump my rankings. Maybe I should just give them relative scale numbers, so it's easier to get full amp descriptions.
Re: That One Special Amp ??????
I think a cool addition to this would be the 'brown' Fenders 6Gxx series, I had a friends 6G6-B Bassman head here for a couple years- cool sounding amp.
Re: That One Special Amp ??????
There's a lot more amps to put on there. I'd probably also differentiate between 100W Twins, and 135W Twins, 45W and 70W Supers, Pros and Bassmans, etc.
Choosing a cathode bypass cap
A nomogram for choosing a cathode bypass cap.
(original, long-out-of-print source unknown)
"What's a nomogram?" you say. Easy, it's an analog calculator, like a slide rule, only easy to understand. You can use this tool to tweak the sound of your amp, and know what you're doing at the same time!
In this particular nomogram, if you know two of the following values
- the value of your cathode resistor
- the value of your cathode bypass capacitor
- the frequency of the rolloff desired
you can then draw a line between the two known points, and find the unknown value.
For example: On a typical Fender preamp circuit, you'll find a 1.5kohm cathode resistor and a 25uF bypass capacitor. Draw the line on the nomogram, and you'll find that the bass rolloff begins at 40 Hz (cps).
On a typical Marshall preamp, you'll find a 0.68uF capacitor and a 2.7kohm cathode resistor. The bass rolloff begins at around 400Hz. Your ear hears that as a mid boost and/or 'tightening up' of the bass frequencies.