How do you make sure you have a gem?

Lets talk shop guys. When you decide to have a partsocaster put together, how do you ensure that you end up getting a gem?

How do you actually check the body parts before assembly?

I had one made this year, and it's really fantastic. it rings and rings and rings... I started out with the nicest parts I could find. Qtrsawn Flamed neck from WD Music with the specs I wanted, and a very light one piece ash body. from Allparts. (about 3.02 lbs) When i mated the 2 parts together, without finish, the neck joint was already tight enough to hold up the guitar by the neck, and the body didn't fall off. With the really thin nitro finish I had done, it became even tighter, and the guitar really sustained fantastically!

But when I put them together eventually, the guitar wasn't as light as I would have liked. I found that the neck itself was actually really heavy, and it's something I didn't notice when I chose the neck. I'll have to be more careful in the future, but that doesn't matter much now, because the guitar is really resonant, and it sings very nicely.

I'm now finding that I'm not liking the bone nut as much as I'd thought, because it seems to sound more mellow than I expected.

So, how do you choose your parts for the guitar?

My process for a part-o-caster is similar. I've been at this for a while so there are certain features that I know I like. And then sometimes I take a leap of faith on something, having just done some online research and read some reviews.

Sometimes you hit, sometimes you miss. You can do a lot to swing the factors toward a hit, but ultimately, it's a roll of the dice.

It really depends on what you are going for, I'd guess.
I've owned a number of vintage guitars over the years & that's what I like, so that's what I shoot for in terms of specifications & such. If I miss the mark in an area then it's pretty easy to switch stuff out w/out agonizing over it. The p'ups are the easiest things to change so I start there & the necks are next. Fortunately, I've been able to get those custom made from USAGC so it was never a guessing game. I told them what I wanted & they made it just like that. But if the body doesn't look good or feel good then it's either going to go or get some radical surgery. That's probably the most labor intensive part: Carving a body from scratch or reshaping one & then finishing it. Leo Fender would roll over in his grave if he knew how much lacquer I've had to strip off & start a finish over. What a waste of material!
After you make a few clones or at least make-over some guitars you start to get a sense of what one will be like even before you get it together.

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Originally Posted by 71818

After you make a few clones or at least make-over some guitars you start to get a sense of what one will be like even before you get it together.

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+1!

I spent some 2½ years planning out my first guitar before buying a single part. I consulted with dozens of guitarists and luthiers about what I hoped the finished instrument would be and I picked the brains of many folks right here on the TFF (thanks, guys!). And that first custom guitar turned out precisely as I envisioned. That was some fifteen Stratocasters ago. I can build one in my sleep now, with relatively predictable results.

Just remember -- there are no "dumb" questions......just dumb answers.

Best of luck, HTH

I got lucky! I'd like to think that ordering the body and neck together from USACG had something to do with it.

Selecting pickups was the hardest part. The most fun as well. I even tried pickups that I didn't expect to like. I bought them used and sold them when I was ready to try something else.

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Originally Posted by curtisstetka

Sometimes you hit, sometimes you miss. You can do a lot to swing the factors toward a hit, but ultimately, it's a roll of the dice.

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That's the thing here. When you get a miss, how do you know which part is the culprit?

Looking at the one I had made, when I play it acoustically, the vibrations are so strong, they travel down to my gut!. I'm not sure if the light ash body, or the heavy qtrsawn neck, or the tight neck joint did the trick. If I changed the body or the neck, would it have been different?

What are the MUST HAVE things to look out for?

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Originally Posted by demioblue

What are the MUST HAVE things to look out for?

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The one detail that really makes (or breaks) the deal is having a solid kinetic neck/body interface. You don't want the pocket so snug that it causes problems during routine changes in the weather. Conversely, it shouldn't be too loose as to cause tuning stability problems or loss of sustain.

And remember......there's no easy way to "un-drill" a hole. Plan your pickguard choice carefully.

HTH

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Originally Posted by demioblue

When you get a miss, how do you know which part is the culprit?

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I don't want to sound like a smartass, but that's pretty easy: You find the part that you don't like & change it out. It helps to know what exactly it is you DON'T like about a certain part & then look for a replacement that has what you DO like.
This isn't rocket science, & it's not voodoo, either. There are a limited number of variables & you just go through the list.
I'd have to disagree somewhat w/curtisstetka on the dice-roll. Or at least I'd say it's possible to load the dice a bit.
I think it's impossible to build the perfect guitar, but it's not really hard to get a good guitar. You get it in the ballpark of what you like, tweak what you can, & live w/the rest.
"God grant me the serenity
to accept the parts I cannot change;
courage & money to change the part I can;
and wisdom to know how to use a Fluke
& get a good solder joint."

Tone balls, it's all in choosing the right tone balls...

I should have said a little more to explain myself.

I think that if you're smart about the parts you get, you can pretty much guarantee yourself a good guitar. But sometimes there's some real synergy and you get a GREAT guitar. There's just some stuff that's beyond one's ability to discern and understand. This is wood, after all. It doesn't reveal all its secrets on the surface.

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Originally Posted by curtisstetka

I think that if you're smart about the parts you get, you can pretty much guarantee yourself a good guitar.

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This is exactly my point. If you're smart about it. Very often, those of us who are starting out doing DIY strats have no clue what we should look out for. I'd have to say that while I got a great guitar, 50% was luck and 50% was instinct/knowledge.

What happens when you get a dud? How do you know which part is the culprit?

What do you mean by a dud, though? Give an example & you'll get some ideas.
Look, for some of us this is a disorder. So we buy a set of p'ups & if they sound like crap in one guitar, that's ok. They'll go in the next one. Same goes for bodies, necks, trems... you name it. Once you find a combo you like you pretty much stick w/it, or at least I do. I have 1 pc. maple neck Strats but I prefer rosewood so that's what I go for mostly. And alder. ALL my Strats have Custom Shop '54s in them & I even have a set waiting just because "you never know". I have handfuls of 250K CTS pots & a variety of caps, all for tweaking & whatnot. See what I'm saying?
"Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will..."

Lemme know if you need a minty pickguard, Robert......

:dude

See? He's an enabler!

I love a good Star Wars quote!

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Originally Posted by 71818

What do you mean by a dud, though? Give an example & you'll get some ideas.

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Well, I don't mean pup changes and what not. I get the part where pups are subjective, and you change them to get a different tone. Not necessarily for better or worse, just different.

What I mean is if you put together a strat or tele, and end up with something that chokes it's notes acoustically when there's no fret buzz or any sign that anything is impeding the vibrations. When it doesn't sustain unplugged. Or like the tones you get seem to be lifeless. That's what i mean.

I've played some fantastic examples of real strats and self assembled ones. My own assembled one seem to have a character of it's own compared to my Fender. They're both amazing, but they're also both very different. i have the CS54s in the self built one, but i'm finding that I would like something still a bit overwound, since when I compare that one with my Fender with Fat 50s in it, the CS54s sound puny. So I ordered a set of Texas Specials and that would probably solve it. Both my strats vibe like crazy. You play them, and you feel the strong vibrations from the body riding up your spine. they're that resonant!

Yet I've owned guitars in the past, even a Fender Strat Deluxe where they didn't vibe as well, and somehow, tonally were dead thru any amp, any setup. sure, the electronics worked fine, and the sounds produced were typical of what you'd expect, but there was no life in those guitars. I find that varies from guitar to guitar.

So, if i want to build something highly resonant and sustains well, what do I look for? How do I correct a dud that doesn't exhibit these traits?

I'm still not clear on what you are asking, but I think the first thing I'd look at replacing would be the neck & then the body. If you replace the neck first & that doesn't make any difference then slap the 1st neck on another body & see if you like that.
Got a body that you like? Then try necks out on that body. A nice lightweight alder body is a keeper IMO. The only "duds" I can ever recall putting together were basswood. Some folks like 'em, but not me. That, & necks finished w/thick poly are going to be lifeless to me. Not everyone hears stuff the same way, though. YMMV, as they say.

Ash may be considered an acceptable substitute for alder (wink wink).

:D

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Originally Posted by 71818

I'm still not clear on what you are asking, but I think the first thing I'd look at replacing would be the neck & then the body. If you replace the neck first & that doesn't make any difference then slap the 1st neck on another body & see if you like that.

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Well, this is my point. If I find a neck I like by virtue of specs, how do I know if it will be toneful, or a tone sucker?

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...ollTheDice.jpg

Seriously, it's all a crapshoot. But if you've done your homework and selected your components with care, you should end up with a nice guitar.

Best of luck

Buy one from USACG. It won't be a dud. They make great necks. Tommy Rosamond's one of those guys that goes around tapping on boards all day long, lol

Hahaha... point taken... will take note of it. Thanks!

:couch

It's a jem if looks like this:
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...-555-bk-wh.jpg

Oh, wait... you wrote Gem, not Jem. sorry.

I've taken a body that came off a dog, and a neck off another dog, put them together and had gem. It's a total crapshoot where an unknown number of variables interact with each other.

I've been handed someone else's dog and loved it. And I've handed one of my dogs to someone else and they loved it. So how it interacts with the player is important.

One thing I've learned - trying to quantify totally subjective things is a fools errand.

The guitar world seems to be divided into two camps: Modders who believe that the guitar is the sum of its parts who obsess over wire insulation and neck pocket gaps, and players who just play the thing and decide whether or not they like it.

So, we can argue it down to Atristotle vs. Socrates - truth vs. beauty. Since smarter men than me have waged that argument for thousands of years I doubt we'll solve it here.

Either way is fine if it brings you joy.

Well, if you are trying to build a functional guitar then neck pocket gaps might have a bearing on that, lol

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Originally Posted by 71818

Well, if you are trying to build a functional guitar then neck pocket gaps might have a bearing on that, lol

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Don't you love that one?

Really, from a finite-element model analysis I once did, a loose neck pocket with a gap gives better energy transfer. And no damping occurs because of friction.

AFAIC, the tight neck pocket thing is a bunch of hooey from people who couldn't calculate whether the roots of the discriminate for the equation of motion in the vibration analysis were real or imaginary. And contact at the sides of the neck pocket will add a first order term which can't be good for sustain.

And that's only if we restrict ourselves to second order analysis, when in reality there are higher order terms involved and we need to do some Fourier analysis. And maybe use some LaPlace to solve it.

Not that I would know anything about harmonics and vibration after doing research on predicted frequency efficiencies of Hemholtz dampers in rocket motors used to control destructive screeching in the combustion chamber.

Your thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

And that's only if we restrict ourselves to second order analysis, when in reality there are higher order terms involved and we need to do some Fourier analysis. And maybe use some LaPlace to solve it.

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What he said. :ride

I'm not talking about loose or tight neck pockets, I'm talking about gaps, which is what I assumed you were talking about since those were the words you used.
On one of my bastardcasters the gap between the body & the neck was so large that it made it impossible to adjust the intonation on the high E properly. The extra distance created by the gap required the saddle be moved far enough forward that it was touching the screw into the body on the bridge plate. Every time the whammy was depressed (& not by too much, either) the screw was pushed back & the string went out of tune. This was a necessary fix, if tuning is an issue for you. For some, it seems, it is not.
Or were you just being a dick?

i have owned elecs with gaps that sounded fantastic, as well no gap elecs that sounded fantastic, LOL

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Originally Posted by 71818

Or were you just being a dick?

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I think we all know the answer to that question..:D

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Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

Really, from a finite-element model analysis I once did, a loose neck pocket with a gap gives better energy transfer. And no damping occurs because of friction.

AFAIC, the tight neck pocket thing is a bunch of hooey from people who couldn't calculate whether the roots of the discriminate for the equation of motion in the vibration analysis were real or imaginary. And contact at the sides of the neck pocket will add a first order term which can't be good for sustain.

And that's only if we restrict ourselves to second order analysis, when in reality there are higher order terms involved and we need to do some Fourier analysis. And maybe use some LaPlace to solve it.

Not that I would know anything about harmonics and vibration after doing research on predicted frequency efficiencies of Hemholtz dampers in rocket motors used to control destructive screeching in the combustion chamber.

Your thoughts?

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Whoa... Wha? Laplace Transformations? Where did thouse come from? How would bringing things into theS domain solve things?:lmao: