65 Bandmaster — Power up, test, & sell

A long time friend recently came to visit and (knowing I had rebuilt my Bandmaster Reverb), asked if he could bring his Bandmaster over. I said sure, but we had much to talk about and he just left it, then saying he doesn’t plan on using it and wants to sell it. I told him I’d get it ready to sell, but don’t think he’s turned it on in the 35 years or so I’ve known him (I believe he’s the original owner). To me nothing looks to have been modified, and even the tubes may be original (Dumont, RCA, GE).

So I’m looking for advice on doing as little as possible (to preserve value), with the goal of turning it on safely and verifying that everything works, to then offer up for sale — I’m assuming it may at least need new PS caps. I’m comfortable changing components, taking measurements, and have a tube tester, but not a variac. He also brought the speaker cabinet, and I have other gear to test that with. I’ll also clean it up, so techniques and products you’d recommend (or avoid) are also welcome. I imagine posts like this might be common, so if this is already covered somewhere, please point me to a good resource ... and thanks for your help!

Here’s what I think I know about it:
1965 Fender Bandmaster (Blackface)
Built: April 1965 (OD)
Serial Number: A09658
Amplifier Circuit: AB763
Other identifying numbers: TA1365 (chassis & transformer), F01565, W25, CJ

Some photos:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Ks...rqQaFt5A=w2400[/COLOR]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/G3...TwyYx1Xg=w2400

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3k...XlHtxrMQ=w2400

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/BY...ie8ZN9uQ=w2400


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_M...G7_Bdn0Q=w2400
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Xn...a6VhbzsA=w2400


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/qY...CuzG1gDw=w2400

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...hKiIp4X8=w2400

The amp head's valence panel has been re-grilled (incorrectly) with non-standard cloth. The speaker enclosure looks similar though the weave is properly oriented. Other than that, everything else seems to be original and unmolested. The amp's front and rear panels are pre-CBS parts -- note the FEIC inscription on both. What speakers are installed in the enclosure?

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Originally Posted by phantomman

The amp head's valence panel has been re-grilled (incorrectly) with non-standard cloth. The speaker enclosure looks similar though the weave is properly oriented. Other than that, everything else seems to be original and unmolested. The amp's front and rear panels are pre-CBS parts -- note the FEIC inscription on both. What speakers are installed in the enclosure?

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Ah, hadn’t looked much at the grill cloth except to notice the wavy pattern on the speaker, so you could be right that they were both re-grilled. I haven’t looked inside the speaker cabinet at all, but will pop it open this weekend and check it out. I’ll try to test them as well. Coincidentally, my ‘65 Strat was probably built within a month of this amp (5/65), and has pre-CBS parts as well. I did read somewhere though that pre-CBS speaker cabs did not have the Fender logo, and that some ‘65 cabs were built that way, so this may be very transitional. I’d also read about FEIC and FMIC, but forgot to look for that, thanks for mentioning it. Any suggestions on what to do before powering it on?

It sounds like you know these amps pretty well. But if you need any help with it I found that Skip Simmons in Marysyville to be a good resource. He is great about giving advice over the phone. He helped me quite a bit when I bought my '67 Bandmaster.

Skip is a real miracle worker and likely the best Fender amp tech on the west coast. I go back to the days when he lived in Winters and was still running the draw bridge in West Sacramento. If it's broke, he can fix it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Keethlawrence

It sounds like you know these amps pretty well. But if you need any help with it I found that Skip Simmons in Marysyville to be a good resource. He is great about giving advice over the phone. He helped me quite a bit when I bought my '67 Bandmaster.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by phantomman

Skip is a real miracle worker and likely the best Fender amp tech on the west coast. I go back to the days when he lived in Winters and was still running the draw bridge in West Sacramento. If it's broke, he can fix it.

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I looked Skip up, seems he has quite a reputation, I may give him a call, thanks!

In one of your photos, it looks like the power cord has some damage. I would attend to that before plugging it in. Everything in the circuit looks original to me. You didn't include a photo of the power supply caps under the doghouse cover, but I would assume they are original also. I recently bought a 1969 Bandmaster Reverb in mostly original condition, so I changed out all of the electrolytic caps, bias supply, and power supply dropping resistors and fired it up without a variac after carefully checking my work, with no issues.

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Originally Posted by Michael Smith

In one of your photos, it looks like the power cord has some damage. I would attend to that before plugging it in. Everything in the circuit looks original to me. You didn't include a photo of the power supply caps under the doghouse cover, but I would assume they are original also. I recently bought a 1969 Bandmaster Reverb in mostly original condition, so I changed out all of the electrolytic caps, bias supply, and power supply dropping resistors and fired it up without a variac after carefully checking my work, with no issues.

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Thanks for the note. Yes I saw that too, but it doesn’t look like it went through insulation. I also replaced caps in my ‘68 BMR, came out well and sounds good. This project came to a halt when my wife decided we should go skiing in Tahoe for her birthday … she doesn’t ski, but a couple days for me, and hiking with the dog for her, more pics next week.

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Originally Posted by AudioHTIT

Thanks for the note. Yes I saw that too, but it doesn’t look like it went through insulation. I also replaced caps in my ‘68 BMR, came out well and sounds good. This project came to a halt when my wife decided we should go skiing in Tahoe for her birthday … she doesn’t ski, but a couple days for me, and hiking with the dog for her, more pics next week.

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Just in case you are interested, I added a bias adjustment pot to the output tube matching pot. The resistor was reduced from 15K ohms to 10K ohms and a 25K ohm pot added.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/sxScf1L.jpg[/IMG]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Michael Smith

Just in case you are interested, I added a bias adjustment pot to the output tube matching pot. The resistor was reduced from 15K ohms to 10K ohms and a 25K ohm pot added.

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I saw that when I did mine and decided just to do caps, but maybe someday I might feel like tinkering again.

Your amp already has Leo's traditional bias-adjust circuit. No need for further "tinkering".

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Originally Posted by phantomman

Your amp already has Leo's traditional bias-adjust circuit. No need for further "tinkering".

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Yes, I saw that on the ‘65, but I was replying about my ‘68 BMR Michael Smith had posted about.

Finally had time to remove the rear panel from the speaker cabinet — I’m a little baffled (haha! speaker pun!) as my early 60’s Fender Amps (Princeton & Concert) had name brand speakers (Jensens in the Concert I remember), these say nothing, but I’ve never looked in external cabinets. Anyone know what would be original in a ‘65?


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Hy...wweXM9pg=w2400


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/RX...6FqVt_lA=w2400


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/eF...C84ngg6g=w2400

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Q8...0gvL6G_Q=w2400

He also has the original speaker cable, but one “F Cap” is missing.


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/fA...WEZGCtSQ=w2400


And a photo of the filter caps I forgot to post above, soldering looks original, don’t know that I’ve seen mixed brands before, but I don’t look at this kind of stuff often, and this amp is 'transitional'.


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/7c...WU1VAkOg=w2400

I spoke with my friend the other day and he did say he's not the original owner, but does think he's second owner (bought in '67 I think), also thinks he's had some tubes replaced.

The speakers are Oxford 12L6's manufactured in the 48th week of 1964, standard OEM for this amp.

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Originally Posted by phantomman

The speakers are Oxford 12L6's manufactured in the 48th week of 1964, standard OEM for this amp.

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Thank you!

Plastic caps for the speaker plug can usually be found on Ebay.

Those filter caps look original. The one on the far right has a date code of the 4th week of 1965. It's possible the 2 blue reservoir caps are replacements. Spin the cardboard shell around to look for a date code. Or it's possible that's what Fender had in stock the day the amp was built.

If you do decide to replace the doghouse filter caps, note the polarity of the 2 blue ones (reservoir caps). I'm pretty sure they are wired in series.

The F jack cover can be found here, too:
https://amprepairparts.com/
They've got lots of fun stuff

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Originally Posted by Michael Smith

Those filter caps look original. The one on the far right has a date code of the 4th week of 1965. It's possible the 2 blue reservoir caps are replacements. Spin the cardboard shell around to look for a date code. Or it's possible that's what Fender had in stock the day the amp was built.

If you do decide to replace the doghouse filter caps, note the polarity of the 2 blue ones (reservoir caps). I'm pretty sure they are wired in series.

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Finally got a photo where I can read the date code, looks like FD1 165 — If that means January 1965 then the time fits for original.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/nn...pPKLWypQ=w2400

It also means they're long past due for replacement.

Thanks phantomman, Michael Smith, & Cogs for the advice and suggestions.

Think I'm going to go up and see Skip Simmons this week, kind of hoping I can keep the amp in original condition and let the buyer decide what they want to do with it (though if someone buys it and wants filter caps I don't mind doing it).

Routine safety upgrades and electrolytic cap replacement -- if performed competently -- generally will not depreciate the value of a vintage piece of gear. The same can be said regarding cosmetic restorative measures.

Skip seems to be a stickler for leaving things original as much as possible. So you should be pleased with the results. Trust him.

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Originally Posted by Keethlawrence

Skip seems to be a stickler for leaving things original as much as possible. So you should be pleased with the results. Trust him.

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I did take the amp up to Skip, and enjoyed some local Mexican food, and a drive-by of my mother-in-laws old place in Dobbins while he worked. He checked it out, did some minor cleaning, and replaced very few parts (I’ll detail later). I’ve enjoyed and learned from talking with Skip on the phone, and at his shop. When I got home I plugged my vintage ’65 Strat into the amp and first a single, then a pair of cabinets I built in 1970 — each has an early 60’s JBL D131, which were reconed by JBL (Glendale) in the mid 70’s with D120F kits. The combo sounded great and brought back tones I haven’t heard in years, so I’m happy with my Skip Simmons interaction and appreciate the recommendation to seek him out.

I now have another issue to resolve and ask those here for recommendations — with value for sale as the prime criteria (also a nod to vintage). One of the Oxford 12L6-1 speakers in the Bandmaster cabinet is blown (no continuity across the terminals). I see the following possibilities prior to sale, and yes, I may be overthinking this, but I do like lists :)

1. Replace the blown speaker with something similar but new (what?), cost of new speaker deducted from ‘profit’
2. Replace the blown speaker with a used vintage 12L6-1 (eBay, Reverb, etc), ditto (probably more expensive)
3. Recone the blown speaker at a local shop with a 12L6-12 kit said to be similar, ditto (probably less expensive)
4. Sell the cabinet with the blown speaker allowing the buyer to choose what to do (offer the above for additional charge)
1a. Replace both speakers with something new, sell the 12L6-1 separately to offset costs
3a. Recone both speakers (local shop recommends that :)

#2 is probably the most ‘vintage’ and most expensive. #1 & #3 leave you with mismatched drivers (3 less so), though they might sound good. #4 has no upfront costs, but sale price will take a hit. I should also say I don’t plan to try for top dollar, just sell everything for a fair price and give my friend the money, I also want the buyer to be happy with his purchase.

What are your thoughts?

I would try moving the set as-is. You've already put quite a bit of time, money, and effort into it and there's no profit in letting it turn into a money pit. Were you keeping it for your own use I'd recommend finding a pair of vintage Jensen Concert Series EM1200's or C12N's but since this is not in the cards, let the new owner decide how he wishes to proceed.