Compressors which one?

I have been considering buying a compressor because I am noticing that some notes are accidentally sounding louder than others. I had never noticed this phenom playing acoustic guitar. Maybe electric guitars are just very sensitive to string attack. Will this get better with practice or will I end up using a compressor? If I do end up getting a compressor I have been looking at two models. One is a Seymor Duncan Vice Grip and the other is a Keely pro both seem to be very comparable. What do you fellas use and why do you use it. Of the two pedals I mentioned which is going to be the best bang for the buck?

Electric guitars are gonna be much more touch sensitive than a acoustic rig. If you notice some will have more touch sensitivity than others so more time with electric will be in order to get the sound of all the strings the same. Palm muting, left hand muting are all techniques that take practice to master...

Thanks good to know. It is pretty easy to make tones with the electric guitar. Even if they are the wrong tones or poorly made tones.

I remember when I started on electric after years of playing acoustic. It was really hard keeping the volume and tone balanced. Then one day it got easier.

Regarding compressors, I don't care for the type that colors my tone a lot (unless I'm trying to color my tone a lot:spin:). I tried a friend's Joe Meek FloorQ and was surprised at how it felt like it did nothing until I shut it off and realized that it was making the guitar easier to play- as if it was pulling me along. Pretty cool. In the end, I didn't care for having an extra pedal for such a subtle effect and I gave it back.

Thanks. Good to know. I am certain there are many more compressor pedals than I have discovered, but these two compressor pedals rate at the top for being quiet and not coloring the tone. I am not in a hurry to get one. I am just trying to figure them out and learn what i can from others that have more experience with them than i do.

The only ones I use are made by these guys. I also run a Slide Rig which is VERY good. Attached a video. There are many of each. I have the TX-P on the Cali76 which has a couple of added features.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o...1e907797c1.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGHPVkVdyy4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZNLMiWd7W8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdbqp00x28s

I can't say enough about these. If I could only have 1 pedal it would be one of these. If I could have 2 it would be my TXP and the Slide Rig. Period. They are that good. I have the full size versions. When you see the insides I can't see how they did the smaller ones and I don't think they are QUITE as rich side by side. I played with TONS of compressors before I found these. I now have none of my old ones.

Thanks for the links rendered. I watched those videos and even though i could see the pedal was turned on i could not distinguish a difference in tone between on and off. Maybe i need to hear them live.

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Originally Posted by Trav-ler

Thanks. Good to know. I am certain there are many more compressor pedals than I have discovered, but these two compressor pedals rate at the top for being quiet and not coloring the tone. I am not in a hurry to get one. I am just trying to figure them out and learn what i can from others that have more experience with them than i do.

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Originally Posted by Trav-ler

Thanks for the links rendered. I watched those videos and even though i could see the pedal was turned on i could not distinguish a difference in tone between on and off. Maybe i need to hear them live.

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So what is it you want? I'm confused...And your original post would indicate you were actually looking for one which would clip everything back to the same level? Oh well. Good luck. By the way. The last video it was on all the time, the second video on all but maybe 5 seconds. These do not color you tone unless you dial them in to do it intentionally. But they are HUGELY expensive so if you don't see the point I would really not recommend them.

On these the attack was set mostly neutral, so it sounds just like your guitar would without it, but the decay was set out there so the sustain went much longer. This is the mark of a GOOD compressor. If you can't tell it's there. These will also color your sound by adding a warmth (if you want it to) like a Uri 1176 which is kind of a mythical beast in the recording world. It's like adding honey to the tone.

I originally was looking for more sustain for electric guitar then after reading tech pages and listening to videos i realized that my playing caused random loud notes especially bass notes and decided that i may benefit from a compressor pedal. It seems that a side benefit of a good compressor pedal is more sustain. Honestly i would prefer to not have any pedals simply because of the extra expense and complexity. I do currently own one Seymor Duncan 805 distortion pedal. Considering the players in the videos are all very skilled guitar players and are finding benefit from a compression pedal i am thinking i may also benefit from using one. The Cali 76 units are very large and highly rated and are the most expensive. I noticed that they do make a condensed version which is similar size of most pedals. The Keely and Seymour Duncan pedals also rate very high for quality and not coloring the tone. I believe they may cost less money too.You mentioned that you thought the larger Cali 76 pedal has better tone than the smaller condensed pedal. Have you used both versions?

After listening to these two videos i can now hear what a compressor pedal does. The Seymour Duncan vice grip pedal is difficult to distinguish from the Cali 76 std pedal. Both are very good pedals.

https://youtu.be/LPiZciLhmGc

https://youtu.be/ut-npbQU1W4

I'll second not having any pedals. I'd prefer to play that way. But most of the time I will have the Cali or Slide rig there because they really let me adjust stuff I may not be able to get at that rooms volume levels with 'the amp I have chosen tonight' type thing. With the TX-P (which you cant get anymore anyway) it also has a subtle boost on it to goose the tone. With the Dual Slide rig you use the second compressor that way. With the 3 chained I can get almost anything I want out of it.

The Origin Larger pedals are a little 'sweeter' tone wise. Worth the extra dinero? In my opinion yes. The smaller ones would be my second choice. As Don stated above, they really can just make playing easier because you are not fighting to get that tone. And yet, that 'tone' may be what is exactly on your guitar and amp already, but it just needs that 'extra something'. You can fight it into the mix manually, or just dial it in nice and easy. And I have played some of the smaller OE pedals. They are damn good.

You stated the two you looked at were close. Maybe in youtube vids. From experience, if they don't end up always in front of you as 'part of your sound' get another one and try it. I played with them for years before I ended up with these. I want them burned in the boat with me when I go. But they are crazy expensive. And I can certainly see why someone would not want to go that far.

Is it possible to use only the slide rig for electric guitar or should the cali 76 be used first ahead of the slide rig? How do these two units differ?

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Originally Posted by Trav-ler

Is it possible to use only the slide rig for electric guitar or should the cali 76 be used first ahead of the slide rig? How do these two units differ?

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Yes! If ALL you want it for is electric guitar the Slide rig is fine. And in some ways better. The big differences between the 2 are simplicity, sweetness and control. The Slide rig deals with ratios and the input/comp ratio where the Cali76 lets you fine tune attack and decay. You are doing that with the Slide Rig just in a simpler way. The huge advantage in the Cali is you can use it in the studio for mics and everything else and it is completely awesome and in my opinion more "sweet". The huge advantage of the Slide Rig is the chaining, i.e. it can be used not only as a compressor but as a compressor with boost with that second channel. It works in some ways better than the boost on my Cali76 TX-P which is why I bought it AFTER i already had the other. You are not going wrong with either. or even the compressors you mentioned. I was not dissing them. It's just after owning many others (one was mentioned by you) I just felt they were not as good as they could be, they WORKED certainly but they were always "there" as in you could hear them or the effect was gone. It is hard to describe. As soon as I played an OE locally I was hooked.

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Originally Posted by KennyF

I use a Keeley 4 Knob Compressor. I think it's great, BUT... Like a lot of effects, you need to to use it sparingly... Meaning, Just enough that you don't notice it... You only notice the absence of it when it's off... Unless of course, you're going for that over compressed vibe...

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EXACTLY! The Keeley works well if you take the time to adjust it correctly, or just let it whack you with swamp. It does not "back out of the mix" as well as it could. And when it is turned up as to be noticeable it is "harsher" rather than "sweeter". Which works for some stuff certainly. And that is where I would place the Slide Rig vs. the Cali76. The Slide Rig is a little more in your face than the Cali76. I am looking at another Limited Edition Cali76 to use with the TX-P I have so I am chained like the Slide Rig with the Cali. THe LE in this case is the Cali76 with Germanium transistors which (in my mind) will make it an excellent cross between the TXP and the Slide Rig. I'm betting quite a chunk of change on it...Comparing the Keeley to the Slide Rig, the Slide Rig edges it out because of the addition of the second compressor. It is amazingly useful. They make a small one with just one compressor. I would probably take it over the Keeley, but that is a real toss-up.

And just to throw this in: what a wonderful age we live in where we have the products at our fingertips that allow us to nit-pick details! None of these items are bad. There are some I don't like which might just be EXACTLY what you are looking for!

Thanks for sharing renderit. After watching a few videos and hearing the keeley color the sound I have crossed it off my list. I am still interested in the Seymor Duncan Vice Grip and the Cali76 and slide rig. I feel like I am still collecting information to be able to make a decision. I think it's safe to say that the Cali 76 would be a good choice without regret. Do you feel that the three knob Cali 76 three knob compact would be outgrown at some point or would it be as versatile as the Cali 76 deluxe compact unit? I am still interested in the seymor Duncan vice grip. It dosent seem to do anything poorly and is very affordable, but it may not offer the flexibility of the Origen Effects units once I learn to use them.

Actually I think if I was going with the small units I would be sure to get the Deluxe with the extra knobs. Try to find some near you that you can actually try. The Deluxe is what I played on. But to be honest, I sprung the extra hundred and went with the big one because it really sounded better. And in the Cali case, if you ever record it is worth it. Listen to this vid. Drums, vocals, guitar, hell. It all sounds better through it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp6Hb9lKRhk

Considering you have knowledge of these pedals what is your take on this model "ORIGIN EFFECTS CALI76-G GERMANIUM"
I can find these online cheaper than the "Origin Effects Cali76-TX-L Transformer Compressor"
Apparently the G model does not have a transformer in it. I don't know how that would effect its performance.

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Originally Posted by Trav-ler

Considering you have knowledge of these pedals what is your take on this model "ORIGIN EFFECTS CALI76-G GERMANIUM"
I can find these online cheaper than the "Origin Effects Cali76-TX-L Transformer Compressor"
Apparently the G model does not have a transformer in it. I don't know how that would effect its performance.

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I have one coming in this week, I'll let you know. The G will be dirtier. Germanium just is. But they allow you to add this to the output, so I expect it will be cool. Germanium was used a lot in the late 60's. So you really look at the G like you won't use it on anything but guitar. Or you can go the other direction and get the Lundahl transformer which makes it much cleaner. Flexibility wise the one I have (the TX-P) is the most versatile they had. Or the Lundahl addition to it. For guitar the most sought after was one I never knew they had until too late. It was the G-P. If you can find one now they sell for over $1000. That had the boost switch like my TX-P. But with a G chained to my TX-P it should be about the same thing. Just a more expensive way of doing it. And all that will just kinda making an uber flexible Slide Rig...

Cali seems like the top of the heap right now but Diamond and Walrus Audio make good compressors as well

having a dry/effected blend is very, very worthwhile IMO

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Originally Posted by Trav-ler

Considering you have knowledge of these pedals what is your take on this model "ORIGIN EFFECTS CALI76-G GERMANIUM"
I can find these online cheaper than the "Origin Effects Cali76-TX-L Transformer Compressor"
Apparently the G model does not have a transformer in it. I don't know how that would effect its performance.

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OK, The Germanium is alright, but in my honest opinion if all you want one for is the guitar, get the Slide Rig. It has the best and most useful configuration for you. If you want to mess with one for vocals, etcetera get the regular Cali76. The germanium is kinda meh. You can accomplish the same thing with a germanium fuzz put after either the Slide Rig or the Cali76.

That's based on an 1176 compressor, which is a classic staple of the recording industry. I used them all the time when I worked in recording studios.

Only guitar compressors I have experience with and liked wis the Keeley 2 knob, which sorta sounds like a DynaComp, but without altering your tone and is able to go lighter on the compression. The other compressor I like is the BBE OptoStomp, which is an optical.

I shun any compressor with a tone knob. None of the ones I use doing live sound or studio work has one, seems to me that they shouldn't mess with your EQ.

Congrats on your new pedal! I'd love to get one!

I thought I ought to specify a little more on the above statement I made. The germanium version gives you a knob on the top that lets you turn on a germanium output transistor on the output side which 'dirts up the sound'. By rolling the knob one way you are turning that mix to none on the germanium all the way up to all germanium (at least I think that's the way it is working). But you also give up all the good pad, ground lift and low gain high gain and DI/Board out stuff on the regular one. It's like taking half of the worst things on the mini's and saddling the good unit with it for about the same price as the good Cali76TX. In my case that is OK because I have the other TX-P unit that not only still has that stuff but also the extra boost footswitch. While you give up the same stuff with the SlideRig it does have the extra compressor on board that also doubles as a boost. On it you give up the attack and delay controls, but if you are not using it for other instruments it works great for guitar set the way it is. It still allows you to mix in/out and ratio.

So basically what I am saying is the Cali76-G is not really what I would recommend if you are spending that kind of money and it will be your only example of an 1176 type compressor. The SlideRig for guitar only or the Cali76-TX for recording in general or anything on a guitar as well are better choices in my opinion. What the gentleman above said holds up in spades for all these units that Origin Effects makes by the way. They mess with your EQ less than any I have heard.

Thanks renderit. I have spoken with a sales person and he spoke with OE staff. He said that only compact boxes will be made from here on out. If you gotta have a large one you had better get one quick. He also said that the OE staff mentioned that there is no noticeable difference in tone production between the CD and the Standard. I am not sure if i want to spend the money on them. They are spendy and Its doubtful i will ever become a pro. I am going to the local guitar store tomorrow to tryout a Seymour Duncan pedal. Will see what happens after i play through one.

I think there is a difference and there are several videos which display it, however I also have to say that knocking about on a rotary device being as no 2 pots are the same kinda negates what I just said. I compared mine to the compacts and did not desire the compact. Love the size though! The big ones are a PITA.

Hope the Seymour works out for you. I may try one today. Why? Are we ever really done collecting chit? Maybe I will like it better.

Also, play the Keely yourself if you can. Youtube videos are good to get general impressions, but seldom is your sound going to completely match what they got and you might really like it. The Keely is a good unit, I had problems with my sweet spot on it being VERY narrow. What you like from it will certainly be different than what I like.

And one more caution on compressors. They work very well with different amps. When you try one make sure you try it through a similar amp to what you have. It makes more difference than the guitar in my opinion.

It is possible that the sales person i spoke with was doing what sales people do and that is to sell what they have in stock verses what the customer is asking for. Yes the original Cali 76 are a bit large. Ideally i would prefer the compact units. Once i run out of space on top of my amp for placing pedals thats it i'm not getting anymore pedals. I think i can fit 4-5 compact pedals on top. Lol! If the Duncan Vice grip sounds good i may get one? I plan to take my guitar and amp to the music store to use for testing the compressors they have in stock. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Yesterday i did purchased a Duncan compressor pedal. The fella at the music store was very helpful. While he was demoing a few pedals he had in stock i could easily hear how the compressor pedal was effecting the sound with the various adjustments he was making. Now that i have it at home i can barley discern if something is happening. I am going to google "setting up a guitar compressor pedal" and see what a search turns up.

After a week of playing with the Duncan compressor I think I have it figured out. There is a lot of information available on the webb about setup and usage of a compressor. The most confusing part of learning to use it is understanding the controls. The Duncan pedal does come with a basic manual which has a page of suggested settings, but I needed better instructions to make sense of the controls. I had a difficult time relating the labels used on the web with the labels that Duncan calls their controls. Also there is no zero to max labels on the controls so I had to figure out which way to turn them to cause the effect to occur. After much fiddling I think I have the controls figured out and can hear how they effect the sound. This thing is very transparent unless you turn the sustain control up beyond 3/4. I think it is possible to get most of the compression and sustain control that most players would be looking for with the controls set at or near the factory reccomended settings. Without using it more I can't say much more about it. This is a subtle yet not so subtle effect once you can hear it working. Oh as redisburning said earlier in this thread i found that having a blend control is useful in that it will make much of the quack sound dissapear when dialed up. Why not just use less compression?

The blend knob allows you to mimic bus compression, a trick used a lot in the studio. Basically you are using both a straight and compressed to hell sound, layering the two. Most guys use it for drums, but it can be used for anything.

Personally, I use my compressors on my boards as more of a volume control than high compression. I get my rig sounding good, and if it's too loud (which it usually is) I pull the volume back on the compressor to where I'm not too loud, then I dial up the compression to make up the sustain I lost from turning down. So basically, I'm using it to mimic the tube compression of my amp. That's for guitar. On bass, I use a compressor and my SansAmp BassDriver to mimic the sound and feel of a tube bass amp, as I usually play through other people's SS bass rigs.

When I mix front of house for concerts, that's a whole different story. I'm using compression to smooth things out, kinda like when I use the ones on my board. But it's less of an "effect" and more of a "polishing" deal.

I'm convinced that when people say they don't like compression, what they really mean is they don't like poorly used compression. Every recording we listen to, and big concerts we attend are compressed. It's the proper execution and use that separates the men from the boys. So fiddle those knobs and try different sounds.

The tricky part of using a compressor pedal is finding out when and where to use it. It's not an "always on" pedal for most people. I use them that way, but I don't employ them like most people do.

Seems like you're starting to get the hang of them, and that's good. Keep experimenting and have fun! Best of luck to ya amigo!

Thanks chuckocaster. Using your compressor pedal at low volumes to add lost sustain is interesting and a good use of it. After becoming familiar with what the compressor does to the tone at low and high compression levels i did notice that same compression tone while listening to recordings of music made by professionals that i am trying to learn. When the duncan compressor is set to moderate settings the guitar tone is very natural sounding and with a little more compression the quack on the attack appears along with noticeable extra sustain. The quack and squished tone can be washed over with the blend feature but it is still there if you listen for it. The controls on this duncan compressor do offer a broad spectrum of adjustment, but settings for a desired effect ride on a thin line. I had the same thought as you mentioned that a compressor may not be used for all playing. I will have to explore its use through trial and error. Right now i am playing with chicken pickin and It seems to work well for that type of playing. For blues which is the other genre i like i'm not sure if it will work out so well? Maybe it will if it is used at moderate settings? Not sure right now.

I'd probably only use the compressor for Blues if you're playing slide, other than that, I'd leave it off. But, use your ears, you'll know if it's right or not.

This compressor is very sensitive to 60 cycle electrical signals at higher sustain levels. My guitar dosent have noise canceling pickups. Put the selector switch in position 2 or 4 and it gets a little quieter. How do those of you that have mastered using a compressor eliminate hum?

Probably your best bet is shielding. The deal is, you're increasing the noise floor by using a compressor, because you're increasing the minimum volume level. So basically anything (good or bad) that you feed into it will be more noticeable.

Thanks chuckocaster. I will see what i can figure out through trial and error. I spoke with a tech support person at duncan regarding this issue. He mentioned using a inline filter. He mentioned two types one was a 60 cycle hum filter and the other was some sort of adjustable filter maybe it was a pedal. I have a laptop, cellphone, guitar amp and the described compressor pedal all within 8' of each other. Is it possible that the guitar pickups are catching noise from these devices or is the compressor pedal picking up these electrical signals. Electric guitars and accessories are tricky devices. Too bad its not possible to just put some duct tape on them and their better than new!

Edit: I didn't understand what you meant by shielding. I have discovered shielding the guitar by accident while researching noise cancelling pickups. I will research guitar shielding.

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Originally Posted by chuckocaster

Probably your best bet is shielding. The deal is, you're increasing the noise floor by using a compressor, because you're increasing the minimum volume level. So basically anything (good or bad) that you feed into it will be more noticeable.

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I didn't understand what you meant by shielding. I have discovered shielding the guitar by accident while researching noise cancelling pickups. I will research guitar shielding. Thanks!

All that stuff emits noise that your pickups will "pickup". LOL So, noiseless pups and shielding the guitar cavity can help. In truth, despite what many people say, a guitar is never truly noiseless. Another thing you can do is make your own shielded cables. You'll need wire like used in microphone cables, 2 conductors and a braided shield. Wire it as normal, hot and ground, and connect the shield to ground but only on one end. Another thing is to stand in one spot and slowly turn around. You might find a direction where the interference is lessened. Computer screens are horrible offenders of EMF!

Thanks. I have decided not to bother with the guitar shielding. I have done some research on cables. I have a Mogami guitar cable it should be good and if the jack cables i have are not shielded i may make some for the pedals. I have also been looking into noise gates. I have been doing a lot of research on noise gates. I may start another thread about them to see which gates others have found to work well. So far i have been looking at the Boss ns2, ISP Decimater series, and a TC Electronic Sentry. Most all of the reviews i can find have the testers using the gates to cleanup staccato metal. Not one test using blues, country, or classic rock for test music. Maybe gates are not used for those genres?

No, not really. They're great for what they are, but I think you're not going to like them for the genres listed. You should attempt to curb as much noise at the source, not by using a pedal. JMHO, YMMV, not applicable in all areas... :D

I returned the boss pedal. After using it for a few days and learning what it does to the sound the guitar produces i decided to look for another solution or live with it. I would like to tryout a Hum DeBugger to see how transparent it is. It isn't designed to control or effect the guitar tone. As you mentioned i may find that the best solution is not going to be found in a pedal.

I tried out a TC Electronic sentinel noise gate. Using the hiss setting I can now use higher compression ratios or sustain levels to get a compressed attack sound with no hiss or hum and it is possible to set the TC noise gate so that it is almost imperseptable when it closes. I am not noticing any tone change either. This is a very useful pedal. I believe my problem is solved.