New Mexican Stratocasters

While I was in a music store yesterday I was playing with some Mexican Player Strats.

Fender - what were you thinking? QC was terrible. Fender still doesn't undercut the fret tangs so up here in the northeast they all sprout during winter. Two that I picked up were unplayable. There was obviously no factory setup done and the aforementioned fretwork was laughable - borderline painful. Honestly, I've seen much better Squiers.

Why on earth would somebody fork over $850 for one of those when you can buy a beautiful Ibanez or Yamaha or Epiphone for significantly less? I mean, I get it the MIMs are a value line but sheesh, at least make them playable. The competition is a lot better.

I have a couple of older MIMs that see occasional gig and recording duty so I can say MIMs used to be fine guitars, but based on what I saw yesterday I wouldn't recommend them now.

Very disappointing.

Chuck

FMIC's QC/QA has been circling the drain for quite some time, no doubt about it. I have several older (10 to 20 years) MIM Strats plus clones built from MIM Fender parts and all of them are top-drawer in terms of playability, tone, and visual appeal. Apparently Fender's eggs are all in the MIC Squier basket now.

Aside from a few QC details, I find the MIM Fenders to be far better instruments than anything they produced during the 70's!

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Originally Posted by Tele-Bob

Aside from a few QC details, I find the MIM Fenders to be far better instruments than anything they produced during the 70's!

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That was always my finding too, but these were new ones and they were poop.

He he, my old three-screw was a turd among turds.

I'd transitioned to a Gibson LP in the late '60s then spent nearly four years overseas in the '70s so mercifully I missed CBS's final gasp of trying to build decent guitars. Nearly every one I ever saw from that era was a trainwreck.

We all owed our local music store back in the 70's, Bob would rather let you pay monthly than take cash. A friend made his monthly payments working on the new Fender guitars, finishing the details and setup!

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Originally Posted by Bill Moore

We all owed our local music store back in the 70's.

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BT, DT. It took me 14 months to pay off my first new Fender amp, a '67 drip-edge silverface Super Reverb. Then we bought a new solid-state Fender PA4100 PA system. That took about 20 months.

I hate to hear that about the Player Strats. There's no excuse for it. I've been tempted by the new Player Plus basses--active PJ basses they've just started to make in a lefty model. I also have reservations because of the nearly $1100 price tag.

In the last few years, Epiphone has really gotten their house in order. I have three: a Casino, the Jack Casady bass, and a Korina Explorer bass. First Epiphones I've owned whose pickups are great. The factory they're using in China is doing some great work. I've bought two Gibsons in recent years, a six string Explorer and the new Pelham Blue SG. Perfect as they can get.

Fender was doing so well for a short stretch. Can't they do a little better with QC? Pity because buyers have a lot of good will towards the brand. Have to admit, I'd be happier buying a new G&L.

The made in Indonesia Squire Classic Vibe thinline telecaster I bought in December arrived with a good setup and very good fret work. And the price was right too. $380 plus free shipping due to the sale Fender was having in the lead into Christmas. I can't speak to the quality of the electronics or pickups because I've never played an early 70's thinline tele, but it sounds good to my ear.

If it plays good, sounds good, and looks good, it is good.

The guy I'm recording with buys guitars from China that are pretty amazing. Copyright/Trademark issues aside (fake Gibsons say Gibson, fake Fenders say Fender), they are pretty nice guitars for dirt-cheap prices...

He has a Telecaster fake that is amazing and a Les Paul that looks real. Not sure I personally could go through with it, but then again...

https://www.aliexpress.com/

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Originally Posted by gibsonjunkie

The guy I'm recording with buys guitars from China that are pretty amazing. Copyright/Trademark issues aside (fake Gibsons say Gibson, fake Fenders say Fender), they are pretty nice guitars for dirt-cheap prices...

He has a Telecaster fake that is amazing and a Les Paul that looks real. Not sure I personally could go through with it, but then again...

https://www.aliexpress.com/

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I don't think I would buy a counterfeit Gibson or Fender. My 2010 Epiphone Les Paul Traditional Pro was made in China and is of pretty decent quality, but at least it says "Made in China", and supposedly was set up in the US.

Epiphone really has their stuff together. They're making some really nice guitars and since they got rid of the bulky headstocks they're even better. Hard to beat some of them for value.

Gibson has pretty much made Epiphone the "players" stuff and Gibson is more geared to gear nerds/collectors.

I LOVE the Gibson Mod Shop. I've been trying to snipe a few factory prototypes there.

There was a 335 in Blubbery Burst (aka Blueberry Burst) I almost bought.

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Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

There was a 335 in Blubbery Burst (aka Blueberry Burst) I almost bought.

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THAT would be something to see!

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Originally Posted by OldStrummer

THAT would be something to see!

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It got sold faster than I could type to buy it. Talk about a gorgeous factory one-off! I wouldn't be surprised if you could double your money on it in a year. I'm cruising Reverb looking for it to show up. Hoping Trogley bought it and will flip it.

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Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

Gibson has pretty much made Epiphone the "players" stuff and Gibson is more geared to gear nerds/collectors.

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Decades ago I remember Gibson's ad campaign of the era used the punchline "GIBSON....THE WORKING MAN'S GUITAR".

Not so much today, it would seem. Epiphones at the time were still exclusively made in USA (Kalamazoo).

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Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

Epiphone really has their stuff together. They're making some really nice guitars and since they got rid of the bulky headstocks they're even better. Hard to beat some of them for value.

Gibson has pretty much made Epiphone the "players" stuff and Gibson is more geared to gear nerds/collectors.

I LOVE the Gibson Mod Shop. I've been trying to snipe a few factory prototypes there.

There was a 335 in Blubbery Burst (aka Blueberry Burst) I almost bought.

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I wonder if the woods have gotten better. I owned 2 epis built in 2010 and 2011 and the woods were horrible, I could bet they were made with moist wood.

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Originally Posted by S. Cane

I wonder if the woods have gotten better. I owned 2 epis built in 2010 and 2011 and the woods were horrible, I could bet they were made with moist wood.

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Around that time the woods in Gibsons weren't much better. I mean, we're talking the Henry J and the Firebird X era.

Hello,

I think guitars are made from wood and that's why they change over time / seasons.

So why make a drama about it?

Over the years I bought the right tools to do these setup-works by my own.

When it is a good music store they should setup and sell their guitars in a good condition...

Best regards
Martin

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Originally Posted by Tele-Bob

Aside from a few QC details, I find the MIM Fenders to be far better instruments than anything they produced during the 70's!

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The same !!!

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Originally Posted by rudkowski

When it is a good music store they should setup and sell their guitars in a good condition.

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True.

But they shouldn't be responsible for carrying the factory's water when it comes to the basics such as a reasonable set-up and acceptable fit and finish in the case of a brand-new guitar.

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Originally Posted by phantomman

True.

But they shouldn't be responsible for carrying the factory's water when it comes to the basics such as a reasonable set-up and acceptable fit and finish in the case of a brand-new guitar.

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And that is their biggest problem in a nutshell. It will bite them in the nutsack eventually. They are nuts. Nutzo, I say.

I don’t understand why a company with so much goodwill would sacrifice everything for short term rewards. A dozen fewer guitars off the conveyor belt each day while greater care for details is taken—surely that’s worth more in the long run.

The Mexican Fenders are good guitars. With more care, Fender would make them better guitars.

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Originally Posted by ch willie

The Mexican Fenders are good guitars.

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+1

The pre-2005 "Classic" models are the best of the breed, as true to Leo's original design as can be found among production instruments.

Well folks, when the CEO of Fender comes from Disney and has publicly stated that he plans to concentrate on digital assets instead of manufacturing, and since the company got fined almost six million bucks a couple years ago for price fixing, well, the writing is pretty much on the wall.

It won't be long until they sell to WMI or Cort-tek, etc. or just go all China. The "product" is no longer guitars, it's the company and branding they market. Heck, the best Fenders made today are Fender of Japan and they don't allow them to be sold in the US (unless you know an importer who can get you one. :yah:)

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Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

Well folks, when the CEO of Fender comes from Disney and has publicly stated that he plans to concentrate on digital assets instead of manufacturing, and since the company got fined almost six million bucks a couple years ago for price fixing, well, the writing is pretty much on the wall.

It won't be long until they sell to WMI or Cort-tek, etc. or just go all China. The "product" is no longer guitars, it's the company and branding they market. Heck, the best Fenders made today are Fender of Japan and they don't allow them to be sold in the US (unless you know an importer who can get you one. :yah:)

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+1

I think you're right. The situation now is even less tenable than the tail end of the CBS era when William Paley just wanted to wash his hands of anything to do with Fender. And unlike the domestic car companies and tech giants. FMIC can't blame it on government meddling.

We're in an era of CNC machinery making widgets. Try them out. The likelihood of getting a well made guitar through the mail is better than ever in my opinion, but go to your local guitar store if at all possible! CNC machinery will get you precisian, uniformly cut pieces of wood for the necks and bodies that will hold tune and intonate properly. If you're in a small town with no options for trying out instruments and strictly looking at what you can buy online, I don't think there's ever been a better time than now to get a decent instrument that plays well through the mail, especially looking at fender's mexican made offerings.

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Originally Posted by cka73

We're in an era of CNC machinery making widgets. Try them out. The likelihood of getting a well made guitar through the mail is better than ever in my opinion, but go to your local guitar store if at all possible! CNC machinery will get you precisian, uniformly cut pieces of wood for the necks and bodies that will hold tune and intonate properly. If you're in a small town with no options for trying out instruments and strictly looking at what you can buy online, I don't think there's ever been a better time than now to get a decent instrument that plays well through the mail, especially looking at fender's mexican made offerings.

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I think I may have already posted about this, but I recently bought a Made in Indonesia Squire Classic Vibe thinline telecaster, and the fret dressing and overall setup was very good. The intonation was pretty much spot on, and the guitar was even in tune. I think I only had to adjust one string slightly.

If it was Indonesia it was probably built by Coe-Tek in which case I would expect it to be better quality than the Mexican Fenders.

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Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

If it was Indonesia it was probably built by Coe-Tek in which case I would expect it to be better quality than the Mexican Fenders.

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For under $400 with free shipping due to Fender's 20% off sale before Christmas, it was a great buy considering how well built it is. They only had the natural finish in stock during the sale period, and I would have preferred the sunburst finish like Tab Benoit's thinline tele, but how it performs is more important anyway.

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Originally Posted by Michael Smith

For under $400 with free shipping due to Fender's 20% off sale before Christmas, it was a great buy considering how well built it is. They only had the natural finish in stock during the sale period, and I would have preferred the sunburst finish like Tab Benoit's thinline tele, but how it performs is more important anyway.

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The problem to me is that you can go to a bunch of different off brands, buy a 150 dollar set of pickups and come out way better that ponying up 7 or 800 dollars for a mexican fender with the exact same 2nd tier parts. Get a 200 dollar fender knockoff, and you can upgrade the heck out of it with pickups, tuners, wood that's just as good, etc. And I love Fender guitars and the days of 300 dollar mexican strats that just needed better pickups. When the heck did these become 600-800 dollar guitars without significant upgrades? Flame suit on.

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Originally Posted by cka73

The problem to me is that you can go to a bunch of different off brands, buy a 150 dollar set of pickups and come out way better that ponying up 7 or 800 dollars for a mexican fender with the exact same 2nd tier parts. Get a 200 dollar fender knockoff, and you can upgrade the heck out of it with pickups, tuners, wood that's just as good, etc. And I love Fender guitars and the days of 300 dollar mexican strats that just needed better pickups. When the heck did these become 600-800 dollar guitars without significant upgrades? Flame suit on.

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On that note, I'll simply point out that today's Musician's Friend Stupid Deal of the Day is a Squier Bullet Telecaster for the low, low price of only $149.99.

https://media.musiciansfriend.com/is...00-250x250.jpg

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Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

While I was in a music store yesterday I was playing with some Mexican Player Strats.

Fender - what were you thinking? QC was terrible. Fender still doesn't undercut the fret tangs so up here in the northeast they all sprout during winter. Two that I picked up were unplayable. There was obviously no factory setup done and the aforementioned fretwork was laughable - borderline painful. Honestly, I've seen much better Squiers.

Why on earth would somebody fork over $850 for one of those when you can buy a beautiful Ibanez or Yamaha or Epiphone for significantly less? I mean, I get it the MIMs are a value line but sheesh, at least make them playable. The competition is a lot better.

I have a couple of older MIMs that see occasional gig and recording duty so I can say MIMs used to be fine guitars, but based on what I saw yesterday I wouldn't recommend them now.

Very disappointing.

Chuck

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Who on earth is actually a fan of locking tuners? Vintage tuners is the only type that matters regarding a smooth Fender. Beautiful instruments, but that does sincerely not matter if you don't have the freedom of vintage tuners. VTs is what eventually turns a Fender into a real Fender. Locking tuners always ruined The Player Series.

Should be stated as the truth!

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Originally Posted by AndyTheSky

Who on earth is actually a fan of locking tuners? Vintage tuners is the only type that matters regarding a smooth Fender. Beautiful instruments, but that does sincerely not matter if you don't have the freedom of vintage tuners. VTs is what eventually turns a Fender into a real Fender. Locking tuners always ruined The Player Series.

Should be stated as the truth!

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Meh. Locking or non-locking tuners is the least of my concerns. I have locking tuners on my Custom Shop Robin Trower Signature Strat, and they're fine. Changing strings on it is much easier than with the vintage tuners. But either way, I'm more interested in the guitar staying in tune than in whether the strings lock in or not.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Guitar-Lo...MG_0816-XL.jpg

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Originally Posted by AndyTheSky

Who on earth is actually a fan of locking tuners?...

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Well, me for one. You see, I get paid to play the guitar, I do a lot of shows and change a lot of strings as I don't have a guitar tech offstage. Changing strings with locking tuners saves hours and hours and increases tuning stability. If you're into making it more difficult to change strings than it needs to be and harder to stretch your strings in then by all means you are welcome to use vintage tuners.

Start playing outdoor shows in the summertime and you'll change your tune - and strings!

Chuck

I am lucky enough to have purchased a brand new 2010s American Standard strat, which is a specimen of what I deem one of the last good modern batches.

When the player series came out, I remember reading stuff in forums about them equaling the Am Stds. Well, not exactly as it seems.


I myself don’t care for vintage specs, I like to be able to set up a truss rod with the guitar in o e piece, and so on, plus the modern wiring and the modern C neck are just what I look for in a strat.

Not to mention the two-point trem.

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Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

Not to mention the two-point trem.

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Never saw the need for it. Or locking tuners. Or locking nuts. Or 22 frets. Or full-size humbuckers.

IMO Leo got it right, right out of the gate.

To me, the minor improvements like the two point trem, the noiseless/mini humbuckers (which I myself dislike), the easier truss rod access and the tone control for the bridge pickup are indeed improvements, music evolved and it’s only natural that strats did too…

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Originally Posted by S. Cane

To me, the minor improvements like the two point trem, the noiseless/mini humbuckers (which I myself dislike), the easier truss rod access and the tone control for the bridge pickup are indeed improvements, music evolved and it’s only natural that strats did too…

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Agreed, the modern Stat is much easier to own and play. I mean, do we really need to be so vintage we go back to three-way switching?

I've recently become fascinated in the near-obsession some people have with "vintage," "relic" and "reissue" guitars. Granted, not every "new" model always hits it out of the park, but manufacturers rarely keep churning out the same thing year after year.

Being a car fancier, I like reading about the new features being added to make the driving experience more enjoyable while improving safety feature at the same time. Why would I want to buy a 2024 Mercedes-Benz that looks, feels, acts and has the same features as a 1964 model?

Back when I was a young, starving college student, I had only one guitar. So, if I wanted to achieve a certain sound, or play differently, I would look to adjusting my guitar (it was a 12-string, so I sometimes went months at a time just playing it as a 6-string). Raising or lowering the bridge, using different types of strings -- that sort of thing -- were necessities more than simple tinkering. These days, I look for guitars that feel and sound they way I want them to right off the bat.

I'm probably not as advanced or sensitive as others when it comes to my guitar. I tend to adapt to the instrument rather than the other way around. I'm fortunate that I'm able to do so. Thus, I really don't (and can't) distinguish between country-of-origin when it comes to my guitars.

I can understand the love for the vintage specs, especially if the guitar in question is old indeed.

My point is that some of the modern series can be very good and even more practical, playwise.

I don't need my Strat to be completely vintage style, but I just sold my Music Man Cutlass RS HSS because the built in buffer reacted to my Fulltone '69 Pedal really weirdly. It responded to OD pedals very differently to my other guitars as well. I considered replacing the electronics, but it seemed like a shame to do that to such a nice guitar, plus I realized that I was just trying to make it more similar to my more vintage style Strat. So I sold it to someone who appreciated it for what it is.

Ever since Epiphone got their house in order and I got my hand-carved Chinese Eastman, I couldn't care less about country of origin. I bought a Mexican Martin 12 string about 3 years ago, and it's got a great sound to it.
OA knows his tool and knows what's what. I wonder if that was just a bad batch of Players? I have a Player body on one of my Strats, one with the 94 AmStd neck and Seymour Duncan pups. It sounds great and plays great. I've seen praise for the Players elsewhere. On the other hand, I got that AmPro II Strat, and it's one of the sweetest sounding Strats I've ever played. It's very different from the other one, and yet, I'm glad to have both. QC is top notch on those. Amazing how Straty they can be but still sound so different. When the AmStds were around in the 90s, people were pissed about the swimming pool routs. I've found that in the last few years, I've gotten away from a purest mentality about guitars. I love my Gibsons and Fenders, but if a cheap Indonesian Strat with the decal declaring "RotoRooter" were on the headstock, I'd gladly play it. I think of the absurd chase after someone else's sound, when it's in the language of what they play, the phrasing, the unique emphasis. That's often not imitable. And why would you ever want to sound like anyone else but yourself, expressed in your own language--unless of course you're playing in a note-for-note cover band. Nothing wrong with that. Just making a point.

My personal experience is that most low-cost region guitars these days are extremely playable and remarkably consistent. Where they do fall short is the cheap electronics and tuners. They are plenty adequate for the typical hobbyist who buys them. The chinks in their armor is that the cheap tuners and jacks, switches, pots, etc., don't hold up to the rigors a working guitar is subject to. Everyone goes gaga over pickups but in reality they don't matter as much as most cork-sniffers would lead you to believe. Pickups are not magic. Given the same magnets, wire size and number of turns they all act the same.

Back int the old days they were hand-wound and yeah, there were differences. But in today's world with automatic winding - trust me, they're all the same. Today you can give me a pickup, I can determine the Br of the magnet, it's chemistry, the wire diameter and count the turns and reproduce it.

The actual wood and paint on all but the cheapest guitars is generally quite good.

My #1 as many people have seen, is a totally clapped-out Carvin bolt that I probably couldn't sell for $200, but it performs night after night and sits in the guitar rack right next to my R9, Pelham Blue Studio and my Heritage and/or PRS John Mayer's. Sometimes my Mexican Tele with SD Antiquities makes an appearance too.

Yamaha guitars are so undervalued it's almost a crime.

Like the man said, "Just dig what you dig. Dig?" Any guitar that brings its owner or an audience joy is a worthy instrument.

Anyway, that's my opinion.

Chuck

Totally agree with you, Chuck.