A 2017 HP SG with a few modifications...

Apologies in advance for such a long post. New guy here so I guess I'm a little enthusiastic lol.

This guitar was far from perfect when I received it but rather than send it back, I made the decision to change/ fix what I didn't like. The fact is that I LOVE the SG shape and this one in particular had a feature that intrigued me ( the soloist neck width). Honestly, just picking the color was difficult. I love the iconic cherry finishes but I continued to be drawn to the vintage sunburst so that was ultimately what I decided upon.

What I loved upon receiving/ playing:

> The neck width: This guitar has a wide neck ( 1.745 at the nut). I do a lot of bends and there are times that narrower neck widths bug me. Maybe this reflects my playing style or maybe the fact that I also play 7-string guitar but in any case, I just LOVE this neck width and shape! Back of the neck is also very pleasing to the touch... satin smooth yet a little less refined than many other guitar necks that I've played on... Just feels fantastic to me.

> The 490R/ 498T pickups: I'm guessing that the Custom Buckers and '57 Classics sound better in some instances but for my particular rig, these pups sound fantastic. Double vol/ tone controls genuinely compliment these pickups.

> The selector switch: Generally that's not something worth noting but this particular switch is so nice that I felt inclined to mention it... solid, looks great, secure engagement, and quiet. The pots also feel smooth and roll off evenly/ cleanly.

> The adjustable zero-fret titanium nut: I'm not convinced that this is absolutely necessary but I have to say that it's pretty cool to be able to fine-tune string height at this end of the board. I also like that you can adjust it higher/ lower towards the top/ bottom strings. I have it adjusted to where the low E is a little higher than top e... Just seems to work well, keeping action low while reducing bottom string vibration.

What wasn't so great:

> The neck dive: This was SO bad that it almost had me returning the instrument at first. The main reasons obviously were the G-Force tuners combined with the very lightweight body and strap-button placement. Also the neck itself is a bit heavy. This dive really bothered me but I knew that I could reduce or eliminate it so I didn't get too discouraged.

> The fret-board: I've owned and played a lot of guitars and this fret-board was one of the absolute WORST in terms of roughness. Gibson really dropped the ball on this one. Less rough down towards the head-stock but gradually rougher towards the body. This was completely unacceptable. For what it's worth, some of the fret-ends towards the upper register were also a bit sharp/ unfinished.

> The G-Force tuning system: Couple years ago I looked at an LP with these tuners and I did not care for them. Maybe it just seems like a bit of a hassle or maybe it's just rather unnatural to me... dunno. I also sometimes feel the need to fine-tune to pitch and these tuners just don't allow that. I haven't weighed the G-Force system but it is extremely heavy. All in all, I appreciate the concept and I can understand how some players like it but for me, I just couldn't quite jive with it. The system does indeed work well and offers alternate tuning capabilities which is nice, but again... just not for me.

> Chrome pickup ring covers: Looked cool but on the bridge side, the ring added too much height subsequently causing the palm of my picking hand to noticeably contact the corner of it.

> Chrome plated plastic bell-shaped knobs: These looked too modern for such an iconic instrument to me. They also felt a bit slick and combined with the shape, were slightly uncomfortable to use efficiently. I initially replaced them with metal chrome dome-shaped knobs ( as seen in the "before" pic) but ultimately wasn't satisfied with those either.

> Slanted ( angled) bridge and neck pickups: Both humbuckers had a noticeable angle to the rear and while it's been debated whether or not this effects sound/ tone/ output, I simply didn't like that they weren't flat/ level from an aesthetics standpoint. I believe that the springs that Gibson uses are either too long or too rigid causing the apparently common condition.. not sure.

> Finishing flaw around stop-piece anchors: I could see raw wood and even a bit of exposed anchors. This bugged me and I thought that it should be addressed.

So... Here's what I did:

> Removed tuners, strings, pickup rings and pickups, knobs, back-plate, and tail-piece/ studs.

> Completely re-finished fret-board with 0000 steel-wool, cleaned and conditioned 2x with Guitar Honey and re-finished all sharp fret ends. I also polished all frets while I was at it. All silky smooth and quenched now.

> Used matching dark-wood touch-up paint to finish the raw area around the tail-piece anchors. It wasn't all that noticeable with the stop-piece in place but a 100% improvement now that all of the finish is consistently colored.

> Replaced the OEM pickup springs with silicone tubing. I've heard all kinds of ways that people have leveled these pickups with foam, shims, cutting springs, etc... but the silicone tubing seemed like the best route to go. It fits over the screws perfectly and shouldn't crack, deform, split, or deteriorate in any way. Took a couple tries to get the perfect length, but both pickups are absolutely level now and height is still adjustable.

> Replaced the G-Force tuners with Gotoh locking tuners with traditional-shaped keystone buttons in chrome to match. Drilling the pilot holes for the screws was a bit scary without a press but they came out perfectly. Very very happy with this mod and it obviously REALLY reduced the neck-dive. These new tuners seem very stable to boot.

> Replaced the modern and slightly cumbersome chrome bell-shaped knobs with chrome dome-shaped metal knobs before eventually settling on traditional Gibson top-hats... very comfortable to use and I think that they look much more appropriate.

> Added several ounces of stick-on lead weights to the inside of the back control-cavity cover. This was to further reduce neck-dive and along with some of the other modifications, the issue is barely noticeable now... almost perfectly balanced.

> Replaced the original cream-colored pickup rings with black rings. Also replaced the chrome pickup-ring screws with black screws.

> Replaced the original cream-colored bat-wing with a custom-made black/ white/ black scratch-plate from WD Music. Also replaced the chrome pick-guard screws with black screws.

> Replaced the silver/ aluminum truss-rod cover with more traditional black/ white/ black blank bell-shaped Gibson TRC. Also replaced the chrome screws with black screws.

> Added black poker-chip to toggle switch for a more traditional look.

*** I think that's it lol. I absolutely LOVE this guitar now. I dig the vintage aesthetics along with the modern touches. It plays like a dream and sounds great. Now I finally have a USA made Gibson in the stable which feels awesome! Thanks so much for checking out this [long-winded] thread.

Before and after pics:

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...IMG_2913_1.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...6/IMG_2933.jpg

Looks very nice. I like what you did as well. I have no use for the original robot tuners but they are very nice units. I intend to pick one up eventually. Love SG's. That was my first electric guitar way back when.

That looks great! I love reflector knobs on SGs and cherry ES guitars. The black plastic is a big improvement over cream on an SG.

Wow... looks great!

Smashing!

I liked the upgrades!

and welcome to the Brown SG club!

About the finish, how exactly does it feel? Is that one of those "worn" finishes that feel like the wood is unfilled?

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Originally Posted by renderit

Looks very nice. I like what you did as well. I have no use for the original robot tuners but they are very nice units. I intend to pick one up eventually. Love SG's. That was my first electric guitar way back when.

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Thank you. I almost felt obligated to post about my experience seeing as how a number of people seem to have reservations about Gibson's quality control in recent years. I've read some fairly negative things anyway, so I wanted to make sure to remain unbiased regarding my personal experience. I can honestly say that despite some of the "issues" that I had initially, I'm so glad that I decided to keep this one.

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Originally Posted by Don

That looks great! I love reflector knobs on SGs and cherry ES guitars. The black plastic is a big improvement over cream on an SG.

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Thank you, Don. I knew instantly that the chrome-plated bell-shaped plastic knobs would have to go. Alternatively, the metal chrome-plated dome-shaped knobs felt great and added a nice amount of weight that the guitar genuinely needed to combat the neck-dive but in the end I was willing to sacrifice those benefits in order to have a finished product that appeared and felt much more authentic. Funny how something so seemingly insignificant can prove such a game-changer when all's said and done.

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Originally Posted by pc

Wow... looks great!

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Much appreciate the reply. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Sérgio

Smashing!

I liked the upgrades!

and welcome to the Brown SG club!

About the finish, how exactly does it feel? Is that one of those "worn" finishes that feel like the wood is unfilled?

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Thanks for the kind words. That's exactly how I would describe the finish, yes. It's not as if it's rough... quite the opposite actually. It's very smooth-feeling yet you can really see the pores of the wood when up close. I think that it suits the vibe of this particular guitar very well.

Few more pics taken throughout the mod process:

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...6/IMG_2864.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...6/IMG_2938.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...6/IMG_2919.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...6/IMG_2910.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...6/IMG_2897.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...6/IMG_2903.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...6/IMG_2877.jpg

Great job man!!! :dude As a modder, I LOVE seeing this kind of stuff. It's well thought out, well executed, and transformed the guitar into an instrument that fits and works for you. And while a drill press would've been nice, taking your time and being careful with hand tools will get you the same results.

I'm VERY impressed with your work, and enjoyed reading your post. Thanks for sharing! And I hope you play the heck out of it!!! :dude

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Originally Posted by chuckocaster

Great job man!!! :dude As a modder, I LOVE seeing this kind of stuff. It's well thought out, well executed, and transformed the guitar into an instrument that fits and works for you. And while a drill press would've been nice, taking your time and being careful with hand tools will get you the same results.

I'm VERY impressed with your work, and enjoyed reading your post. Thanks for sharing! And I hope you play the heck out of it!!! :dude

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I truly appreciate the hospitality. Now all I need you to do is to convince my fiance that OCD isn't always a bad thing lol. Admittedly, she is fairly understanding and supportive but I think that the whole "creme vs black" conundrum was a bit much for her to endure lol. Yep... I've got a drill-press but with the head-stock angle I simply felt more comfortable and more in control setting a depth indicator on the proper sized bit and doing it manually. Glad that I had the confidence because the pilot holes all came out perfectly and I absolutely love the Gotoh locking tuners on this guitar!

You might appreciate this: As much as I liked the creme-colored accents, I simply couldn't dismiss how much more I thought I might like the black. So I found a large piece of black card-stock and proceeded to make mock pickup rings and a pick-guard. As soon as I dropped them over top of the creme rings and guard, I instantly knew that this was the route that I wanted to go. Swapping to black rings was obviously easy but the scratch-plate was a bit more involved. I had utilized the services of WD Music previously for a Duo Sonic restoration project and was quite pleased with them. But that was an "in stock" situation... not full-on custom. With this SG I was concerned because over the years there have been some slight variances in relation to the shapes, contours, and screw hole locations. I conveyed all of this with WD Music and subsequently sent them a precise template ( tracing) of what I would need. Unfortunately they didn't have an exact fit in stock so it came down to having them create the guard from scratch. I conveyed to them also that my greatest concern was the placement of the [5] screw-holes since the holes were already drilled into the guitar. Obviously these holes needed to line up 100% exact. They convinced me that there would be absolutely no issues regarding my concerns and so I placed the order. Two weeks later and I had an absolutely perfectly executed pick-guard at my doorstep. I'm sincerely happy now that I decided to go this route.

Apologies for the walls of text in this thread but thanks again for taking the time to read through it all.

I for one like all the little details, especially when it comes to guitars.

Jeannie Pickguards also does great work, I've used them for a couple custom guards that I didn't want to fab myself. Sometimes it's cheaper and easier to buy it from a company than it is for me to source the material and make one off templates.

BTW, interesting idea with the tubing! I don't work on many Gibson or HB equipped guitars, but I'm DEFINITELY logging that trick in the back of my head.

No apolgies for the length of your post. It was great reading!

That SG is stunning. The mods you made really brings out its beauty.

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Originally Posted by chuckocaster

I for one like all the little details, especially when it comes to guitars.

Jeannie Pickguards also does great work, I've used them for a couple custom guards that I didn't want to fab myself. Sometimes it's cheaper and easier to buy it from a company than it is for me to source the material and make one off templates.

BTW, interesting idea with the tubing! I don't work on many Gibson or HB equipped guitars, but I'm DEFINITELY logging that trick in the back of my head.

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Ah... I had never heard of them before. I'll have to keep them in mind for future projects. Thanks. Fortunately, I haven't had to make any custom guards. You must have some skills because that's something that I think I'd screw up pretty quick lol!

The tubing idea I thought was unique until I saw that others were doing the same thing in place of springs. I used to run nitro-methane RC cars so I have plenty of it lol. Anyway... it's great to use in place of springs that may be too long, too stiff, or too flimsy. I've also found other advantages to using it over conventional springs in certain applications.

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Originally Posted by ch willie

No apolgies for the length of your post. It was great reading!

That SG is stunning. The mods you made really brings out its beauty.

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I guess I'm a bit self-conscious about being long-winded lol.

Thank you, willie! Really glad that this project has been well received here. The SG has quickly become my main player next to my favorite PRS although I sometimes I feel a bit guilty that my other guitars aren't being utilized quite as much lol. I've actually got two that are on the chopping block currently... simply due to the fact that they're not being played... A Gretsch and a Guild. They're great guitars in their own right but I have no need to hold on to something that I'm not using consistently so they'll be leaving the nest soon lol.

Looks real classic now!!

If I can make just one small suggestion, why not switching that chrome pickup switch tip for a cream or amber one? :salud:

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Originally Posted by Sérgio

Looks real classic now!!

If I can make just one small suggestion, why not switching that chrome pickup switch tip for a cream or amber one? :salud:

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NO MORE CREME!! haha... kidding. I appreciate the suggestions as it's always nice to look at things with a different perspective.

The creme wouldn't appeal to me on this guitar since stripping it of any and all creme was a primary objective here. I think amber might look nice but with the black and chrome being the primary accents against the finish, I'm hesitant to add any additional colors. I like also that the chrome switch-tip compliments the HB covers, bridge, tailpiece, tuners, etc. I think if I ever was to change it out, that I would very likely go with black.

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Originally Posted by Sérgio

Looks real classic now!!

If I can make just one small suggestion, why not switching that chrome pickup switch tip for a cream or amber one? :salud:

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I didn't notice that! I agree with HPD about a black switch tip. It's not exactly classic Gibson for this model, but it'd look good with the black parts.

Nice job! Although I shudder to think what a "lot" of modifications would look like! :)

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Originally Posted by Don

I didn't notice that! I agree with HPD about a black switch tip. It's not exactly classic Gibson for this model, but it'd look good with the black parts.

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I think also that I was trying to curtail any excessive spending on top of the cost of the guitar. I concentrated on things that really bugged me or that were just begging to be changed out/ improved. It's not always easy to tell your woman "Oh hey... That new guitar? I love it! Oh, by the way... I need to spend a bunch more money on it!". "Deer in the headlights with cocked head" has kind of become her way of looking at me these days lol.

Over all... at least for now, I'm happy as she sits. Honestly, the most important things to me initially were refinishing that horribly-rough board, polishing/ dressing the fret-ends, and replacing the robotic tuners. After that it was all just gravy... as the kids say.

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Originally Posted by OldStrummer

Nice job! Although I shudder to think what a "lot" of modifications would look like! :)

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Ha! Well when I post up my Duo Sonic restoration project, I'll be sure to mention "A LOT" of modifications. That particular guitar challenged me in ways that I never would have anticipated. I'm very happy with how it came out so I'm anxious to let some folks see it.

I'm interested to see what you did to the DuoSonic, those Fender short scale "student" guitars can be a B to get playing right. From the funky bridges to super short scale, they're temperamental on the best of days! LOL

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Originally Posted by chuckocaster

I'm interested to see what you did to the DuoSonic, those Fender short scale "student" guitars can be a B to get playing right. From the funky bridges to super short scale, they're temperamental on the best of days! LOL

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That's interesting, as this is the first Duo Sonic that I've had the opportunity ( misfortune?) to attend to. It was in no condition to "try to speak" when I rescued it. I worked diligently for many many months on this one... never having a clue as to what the end result might be. It was that bad. I'll give a little rundown of the project here... trying to stay brief as possible.

A friend of mine dug it out of a dumpster... in the pouring rain no less. He couldn't get it to do anything but tremble so after letting it sit in his garage for several years, he eventually asked me if I wanted it. I accepted his cruel offering and immersed myself into it's rehabilitation. Oh man, this thing was bad... a control cavity full of spider-webs, rusted pots, vomit-inducing solder joints, frayed wires, etc, etc... all amidst electrical tape and desperation. Nut was destroyed, head-stock and neck scraped-up/ gouged, missing hardware everywhere plus the bonus of additional hardware never meant to exist outside of an iron-worker's nightmare. Fret-board was horribly sticky and dirty, frets had been gouged and dented deeply ( especially the first 1/2 doz or so), and the body was a hodgepodge of deep sanding gouges, adhesive residue, yellowed clear-coat, flecks of paint, etc... much like an aging Hollywood celebrity. A crudely fashioned mirrored scratch-plate appearing to have been forged by hammer-stones and hand-axe's... possibly by Grog himself, adorned the wreckage. The icing on the cake... both literally and figuratively was the 1 3/4" of heavy, thick lint that very likely could have been used sufficiently as a high-traffic carpet remnant. There may possibly be some exceedingly slight exaggerations peppered throughout that account, but honesty... it was dying fast and in dire need of a good home.

I'll save the restoration details for now but cutting to the chase... this is one of the most beautiful-sounding [electric] guitars that I now own... and it has a vibe that even my snobbiest axes will never have. Hopefully I'll have some time to post next week about this project.

LOL 😂 I REALLY don't understand how people decide one day that they're going to rewire a guitar, usually with ZERO previous experience, and don't even practice on something else before butchering their guitar. Or better yet, have their Dad (or Uncle, cousin, or some other acquaintance) wire it for them because they're an electrician... :comp26: I wish I had a scrapbook of all the atrocities I've encountered because of this!!! It's mind boggling how much effort people put into messing up perfectly good guitars, especially now since we have the internet and Google images and YouTube!!!

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Originally Posted by chuckocaster

LOL 😂 I REALLY don't understand how people decide one day that they're going to rewire a guitar, usually with ZERO previous experience, and don't even practice on something else before butchering their guitar. Or better yet, have their Dad (or Uncle, cousin, or some other acquaintance) wire it for them because they're an electrician... :comp26: I wish I had a scrapbook of all the atrocities I've encountered because of this!!! It's mind boggling how much effort people put into messing up perfectly good guitars, especially now since we have the internet and Google images and YouTube!!!

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I'm inclined to agree... although you just never know what people are thinking or what the situation is. I would love it if this little thing could talk lol. I'm certain that it's seen a lifetime of abuse and neglect as evidenced by all of the "parts" and "modifications" that I had to remove from it. At least it has a happy home now and a 2nd lease on life lol!

Totally agree, and why I prefer patina to perfect with old guitars. I've had some over the years that I tried to rescue from oblivion, and a couple that I was the one doing the hacking... I've come to learn over the years to do a better job of picking candidates more judiciously for modifications. Mostly that came from the vintage gun and car markets. We have to remember that when these old guitars were new, they were just that, new guitars. Then at some point in their life they became just another old guitar either laying around a shop or someone's house. And, much like the hotrod cars built in the 80's and 90's, technology and tastes have changed over the years. Or an aftermarket company is making replacement parts so that we're not having to cannibalize or butcher guitars. We're living in a golden age right now, the internet is such a wonderful thing.

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Originally Posted by chuckocaster

LOL 😂 I REALLY don't understand how people decide one day that they're going to rewire a guitar, usually with ZERO previous experience, and don't even practice on something else before butchering their guitar. Or better yet, have their Dad (or Uncle, cousin, or some other acquaintance) wire it for them because they're an electrician... :comp26: I wish I had a scrapbook of all the atrocities I've encountered because of this!!! It's mind boggling how much effort people put into messing up perfectly good guitars, especially now since we have the internet and Google images and YouTube!!!

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Ditto

I genuinely like the fact that you guys have a sincere appreciation for everything that a guitar is, has been, or ever might be. At least I hope that I relayed that accurately lol. With this Duo Sonic, I had no choice because it was a freebie. My buddy had absolutely no idea what it even was. He thought it was a Fender but that was all the info he gave me. The head-stock was completely void of any identifying markings. My only question to him... "Is the neck broken or cracked?". When he said that he didn't think that it was, I knew I wanted it. I learned so much about the Duo Sonic throughout the restoration... it's origins, the specs, the different variants, etc. Would have been extra-cool if this one was an original or even a II but unfortunately it's a MIM reissue. But that's okay. I still love it and I'm still truly glad that I gave it the love that it deserved... even if it's just a polished turd in some purists minds lol.

:dude I for one am not a purist, I love pretty much all things guitar. While I appreciate and adore museum pieces and whatever, at the end of the day that's not me.

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Originally Posted by chuckocaster

:dude I for one am not a purist, I love pretty much all things guitar. While I appreciate and adore museum pieces and whatever, at the end of the day that's not me.

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I'm not either. I don't mean to assume that all self-proclaimed purists would find a guitar like this to be crap but I'm sure that the restoration of a short-scale MIM reissue is probably not all that special to a lot of people.

No, I got you man. I was just saying that I enjoy most guitars, not all, but a vast majority. I for one get tired of seeing guys take a couple thousand dollar guitar and decide to rebuild it... That's a big thing on our sister site, guy will buy a R8 and then change every part on it. And while I appreciate their attention to detail, and it is their guitar, I honestly couldn't care less about that stuff. I'm much more interested to see someone rescue a neglected guitar and turn it into something. A diamond in the rough or underdog. That's what excites me!

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Originally Posted by chuckocaster

No, I got you man. I was just saying that I enjoy most guitars, not all, but a vast majority. I for one get tired of seeing guys take a couple thousand dollar guitar and decide to rebuild it... That's a big thing on our sister site, guy will buy a R8 and then change every part on it. And while I appreciate their attention to detail, and it is their guitar, I honestly couldn't care less about that stuff. I'm much more interested to see someone rescue a neglected guitar and turn it into something. A diamond in the rough or underdog. That's what excites me!

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That's awesome, man. I couldn't agree more. Also.. There's plenty of high-end guitars that I might drool over from time to time, but when I see collections that were simply created with money, my reaction is just kind of "meh/ whatever". It's great when someone can just have anything built to their liking... sparing no cost, or that a person's collection is a result of simply panning through an online retailer with a hefty credit card in hand, but where's the mojo in that? No back-story, no vibe, no struggle, no learning, no sweat... no thanks lol! To be fair, I've got guitars that were bought/ not built... and that are favorite players of mine... with absolutely no modifications. But those guitars aren't very special... certainly not very sentimental.

EXACLTY! :dude I'm not saying I don't like beautiful guitars, or amazing one offs, because I love those too. But I have a soft spot in my heart for homebuilt stuff

Well I hope that you all enjoy what will surely be a somewhat lengthy account of this Duo Sonic resto project. She's a cutie if I do say so myself!

I also happened to see an off-brand ( Eagle maybe? Not sure) V-copy in the pawn shop the other day... for only $75. I'm not a huge fan of pointy guitars but this one appears in relatively fair shape and it sports a single-bridge humbucker ( which is a configuration that I've never had/ always wanted). It looked so lonely and confused haha. You know... I may just have to go take another look at her tomorrow... hmmm.

:hmm

I'm actually a huge V fan... No joke! Probably from staring at the cover from ZZ Top's Fandango album. I secretly want to be The Rev Billy G when I grow up.

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Originally Posted by chuckocaster

I'm actually a huge V fan... No joke! Probably from staring at the cover from ZZ Top's Fandango album. I secretly want to be The Rev Billy G when I grow up.

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Hey, Chuck!

There are definitely several V's that I have a soft spot for... like Gibson Explorers and Flying-V's. I've had several copies throughout the years but never the real things. I also at one time had a couple Dean Razorbacks ( Dimebag "tributes"). I even had a brief love-affair with a couple BC Rich models somewhere in the 90's I guess. The Mockingbird was one of those. And pondering a little longer... there were a few Jackson V's that I also found to be pretty appealing... King V's, Rhoad's, Kelly's, etc. Hmmm... Maybe I should just reevaluate if I'm a fan or not haha. These days I only have one V... a Kiesel Ultra V7 in a deep-blue Ocean Burst... flame-maple top/ maple neck/ 7 string. It's a neat guitar but it's one of my least-played these days so I may let it go sometime soon. I'll post a pic of it here.

Anyway... Billy Gibbons and Dusty Hill are great guys. I hung out with them several times ( along with BB King, Willie Nelson, and Pat Traverse) back when I lived on the Texas coast just south of Houston. A buddy of mine by the name of Wrecks Bell, owns a little club down there where we used to open-mic along side of some well-recognized musicians. We would end up many times, back at my house just off of the beach... at all hours of the morning... jamming, doing other things, and generally just having great times till the sun came up.

Didn't really intend to go on a rambling-rampage but when you mentioned "V's" and "ZZ Top", a ton of random memories just kind of flooded my mind lol. Great to see you. Chuck.

My Kiesel Ultra-V7:

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...tT-6/018_2.jpg

I play more like Dusty Hill than the Rev, but that's not a bad thing! Most people don't understand how important it is to be able to groove on the bass, and Dusty has that NAILED! I've always preferred simpler bass playing anyway, and Mr Hill is a HUGE influence to me and my bass playing.

That's so awesome that you got to hang with all those guys! I used to do live sound professionally and was lucky to meet and work with some of my heroes. One of the best shows was Jimmy Vaughn and John Mayall. I mixed monitors that night and got to stand 12 ft away from them, AND get to meet and hang out with them a little after the show. In my years of doing that I found that usually the best musicians were also the nicest people. No ego or anything, just normal people who liked to make music.

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Originally Posted by chuckocaster

I play more like Dusty Hill than the Rev, but that's not a bad thing! Most people don't understand how important it is to be able to groove on the bass, and Dusty has that NAILED! I've always preferred simpler bass playing anyway, and Mr Hill is a HUGE influence to me and my bass playing.

That's so awesome that you got to hang with all those guys! I used to do live sound professionally and was lucky to meet and work with some of my heroes. One of the best shows was Jimmy Vaughn and John Mayall. I mixed monitors that night and got to stand 12 ft away from them, AND get to meet and hang out with them a little after the show. In my years of doing that I found that usually the best musicians were also the nicest people. No ego or anything, just normal people who liked to make music.

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You can't be a great guitarist in a three piece band without a great bass player (or organ player or baritone sax player- someone who holds the band together by its lower end while the audience marvels at how great the guitarist is).

Jimmie Vaughan is one of my heroes!

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Originally Posted by HighPlainsDrifter

My Kiesel Ultra-V7:
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...tT-6/018_2.jpg

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Carvin/Kiesel guitars are great! I have 4 of them!

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Originally Posted by Don

You can't be a great guitarist in a three piece band without a great bass player (or organ player or baritone sax player- someone who holds the band together by its lower end while the audience marvels at how great the guitarist is).

Jimmie Vaughan is one of my heroes!

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That's the truth! And sadly, overlooked by just about everyone

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Originally Posted by Don

You can't be a great guitarist in a three piece band without a great bass player (or organ player or baritone sax player- someone who holds the band together by its lower end while the audience marvels at how great the guitarist is).

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I have long maintained that one of the best rhythm sections in all of rock-n-roll consisted of Stu Cook, Doug Clifford (and on rhythm guitar, Tom Fogerty), otherwise known as Creedence Clearwater Revival. I saw them in concert once and was astounded at how tight they were. I felt like I could have had their albums on a turntable with my eyes closed. John Fogerty got all the notice, but without his brother and friends behind him, he would have just been another street corner musician.

In my last band, we worked up "Thank You." Dusty's work is so basic, and yet it grooves. Our bassist decided he didn't want to play the song because the bass was "boring". I argued that it grooved and that when played tightly with the drums, there was nothing boring about it. I lost that argument. I've heard the same said about Bill Wyman's playing, but again, it grooves, and it, with Charlie's tight playing, allowed Keef, Brian, Mick T, and then Ron more freedom. There's nothing "simple" about that kind of playing, and it takes talent to tap into that.

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Originally Posted by chuckocaster

I play more like Dusty Hill than the Rev, but that's not a bad thing! Most people don't understand how important it is to be able to groove on the bass, and Dusty has that NAILED! I've always preferred simpler bass playing anyway, and Mr Hill is a HUGE influence to me and my bass playing.

That's so awesome that you got to hang with all those guys! I used to do live sound professionally and was lucky to meet and work with some of my heroes. One of the best shows was Jimmy Vaughn and John Mayall. I mixed monitors that night and got to stand 12 ft away from them, AND get to meet and hang out with them a little after the show. In my years of doing that I found that usually the best musicians were also the nicest people. No ego or anything, just normal people who liked to make music.

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Jimmy Vaughn seems like a hell of a guy to be around in any capacity. How awesome that would be to meet such a legend!

And to be completely transparent- None of the guys that I mentioned ever made it to my house... I was simply fortunate enough to have briefly hung out with those cats. The bands/ musicians that actually made it to the house were all lesser known and/or local artists.

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Originally Posted by Don

You can't be a great guitarist in a three piece band without a great bass player (or organ player or baritone sax player- someone who holds the band together by its lower end while the audience marvels at how great the guitarist is).

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I've got my favorites as well.. Rush, ELP, Cream, The [JH] Experience, GFR, ZZ Top and more that I'm not able to think of at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Don

Carvin/Kiesel guitars are great! I have 4 of them!

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Thank you! I went to view a Carvin thread of yours ( can't remember what model off-hand) but pics were gone. :(

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Originally Posted by OldStrummer

I have long maintained that one of the best rhythm sections in all of rock-n-roll consisted of Stu Cook, Doug Clifford (and on rhythm guitar, Tom Fogerty), otherwise known as Creedence Clearwater Revival. I saw them in concert once and was astounded at how tight they were. I felt like I could have had their albums on a turntable with my eyes closed. John Fogerty got all the notice, but without his brother and friends behind him, he would have just been another street corner musician.

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There's so many bands ( not just trio's) that I couldn't imagine had the particular musicians never gotten together to create that particular sound: Yes, King Crimson, CSN&Y, etc, etc. CCR was fantastic though.

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Originally Posted by HighPlainsDrifter

Thank you! I went to view a Carvin thread of yours ( can't remember what model off-hand) but pics were gone. :(

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That was my recently purchased 1983 DC150. I cleaned out some duplicate pics and deleted the wrong ones!

Fixed it!

http://www.thefenderforum.com/forum/...ghlight=carvin

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Originally Posted by HighPlainsDrifter

There's so many bands ( not just trio's) that I couldn't imagine had the particular musicians never gotten together to create that particular sound: Yes, King Crimson, CSN&Y, etc, etc. CCR was fantastic though.

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There's another one that just fills me with awe: Little Feat. The combination of Kenny Gradney (bass) and the late Richie Hayward (drums) is/was the anchor that held that jam band together for over 40 years. Hayward's drum tech, Gabe Ford (guitarist Robben Ford's nephew) has taken over the sticks and has been more than capable in that regard.

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Originally Posted by Don

That was my recently purchased 1983 DC150. I cleaned out some duplicate pics and deleted the wrong ones!

Fixed it!

http://www.thefenderforum.com/forum/...ghlight=carvin

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Thanks for posting, Don. I thought that '08 looked familiar... LP Forum? Those are simply beautiful guitars. Love the ebony boards, 24 frets and M-22 pups. Those guitars look very versatile with the phase/ split switching. I've never played one before but I'd guess that they sound pretty good.

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Originally Posted by OldStrummer

There's another one that just fills me with awe: Little Feat. The combination of Kenny Gradney (bass) and the late Richie Hayward (drums) is/was the anchor that held that jam band together for over 40 years. Hayward's drum tech, Gabe Ford (guitarist Robben Ford's nephew) has taken over the sticks and has been more than capable in that regard.

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I may just have to give Little Feat another listen. I never really got into them much but it was only because there were so many other bands that held my interest back in the day. Who knows? I might discover that I missed out on a great band. Glad you mentioned them.

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Originally Posted by ch willie

In my last band, we worked up "Thank You." Dusty's work is so basic, and yet it grooves. Our bassist decided he didn't want to play the song because the bass was "boring". I argued that it grooved and that when played tightly with the drums, there was nothing boring about it. I lost that argument. I've heard the same said about Bill Wyman's playing, but again, it grooves, and it, with Charlie's tight playing, allowed Keef, Brian, Mick T, and then Ron more freedom. There's nothing "simple" about that kind of playing, and it takes talent to tap into that.

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I think where people miss the intricacies of this type of playing is that on the surface it seems simplistic. Yes, there's not a lot of notes being played. But they're all the RIGHT notes, and they're played with perfectly executed precision. THAT is what a well written part is! It's not 6 million notes getting from point A to B. Not that there's anything wrong with a flurry of activity, but that's a completely different style!

Sounds like you maybe handled that situation better than I would have!!! LOL I taught "Mexican Blackbird" to the guitar player in one of my bands... And let's just say that I wasn't very diplomatic in my instruction... But, like we've been talking about, it's the notes you DON'T play that makes the song. We did however get it together, and that song went over GREAT the next time we played it. Probably helped that we were in a dive cowboy bar. Coors Light and Jack Daniels!

Sorry to have derailed the thread.... But "Mexican Blackbird" is a perfect example of how it's done!

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Originally Posted by chuckocaster

I think where people miss the intricacies of this type of playing is that on the surface it seems simplistic. Yes, there's not a lot of notes being played. But they're all the RIGHT notes, and they're played with perfectly executed precision. THAT is what a well written part is! It's not 6 million notes getting from point A to B. Not that there's anything wrong with a flurry of activity, but that's a completely different style!

Sounds like you maybe handled that situation better than I would have!!! LOL I taught "Mexican Blackbird" to the guitar player in one of my bands... And let's just say that I wasn't very diplomatic in my instruction... But, like we've been talking about, it's the notes you DON'T play that makes the song. We did however get it together, and that song went over GREAT the next time we played it. Probably helped that we were in a dive cowboy bar. Coors Light and Jack Daniels!

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I feel the same way about a lot of songs.. Asleep In The Desert, Watermelon In Easter Hay ( before the leads lol), Shine On You Crazy Diamond, and many of Carlos Santana's songs.. Europa, Moonflower, etc..

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Originally Posted by ch willie

Sorry to have derailed the thread.... But "Mexican Blackbird" is a perfect example of how it's done!

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Not at all. I've always favored roads that take you through several different towns along the way haha. How easily one topic turns to another. :yah:

Exactly why I like the "looseness" of this forum. Thanks, HPD!

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Originally Posted by ch willie

Exactly why I like the "looseness" of this forum. Thanks, HPD!

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Always, Willie! Agreed. :cool:

I'm usually always the one getting off track... LOL Kinda can't help it, we start talking gear and it sparks a memory. But, I enjoy reading about others' experiences since the gear is just part of the equation. I've learned a lot from everyone on here and had some good laughs

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Originally Posted by chuckocaster

I'm usually always the one getting off track... LOL Kinda can't help it, we start talking gear and it sparks a memory. But, I enjoy reading about others' experiences since the gear is just part of the equation. I've learned a lot from everyone on here and had some good laughs

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It happens quite a bit on the Jeep forum that I moderate. Understandable when you have different minds thinking about different things lol. We're very lax about it as long as it's not in one of the tech sub-forums. Some people are fairly OCD about hijacks/ derailments but there's really no need to be unless it involves trolling, bullying, etc. I know that this forum isn't particularly busy but I genuinely dig the vibe here and you guys are very cool and interesting. I'm still learning about so many things and I'm glad to be part of it all as well.

I feel the same way, and why I like this place so much. People post, we talk like human beings, go off on tangents, and then end up learning cool stuff.

Really nice work! Huge difference! Enjoyed the entire thread! A good read! And a future reference! Thanks for sharing all!