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Does it ever occured to You that the older the pick-up it seems to sound better? Is this just an emagination because I like old stuff or is there a noticable and explanable differance? Tone and sound are very personal and I do like the sound of the old X1 pick-ups that I have a couple now and they are brilliant as wel as the early eighties vintage reissues and standards! A lott of people seem to like the 70ies ones now because they pay top $ for them, any opinions please :bonk
All pickups sound different from all others, don't they? I don't suspect age has much to do with it. In my only experiences with old pickups, they didn't sound better: they stopped working.
As for the 70's pups... people pay top dollar for old Fender stuff because they are dumb. :)
I do think lower-output, "vintage-style" pickups sound better on a Strat than modern, higher-output overwound pups. But that's not really a product of age; it's just a product of making Strat pups the way they usedta.
I like the single coils on my ´79 strat the best. And the V-2 humbuckers in my´80 ibanez ar100 the best. I don´t think it´s because age, it´s because they made them the way i like them back then!
+1 on this statement! Is it possible that the magnets loose a bit of theire power and are not as strong as in the beginning and makes the pick-up sound smoother, I'm sure of my hearing and the older ones do have some kind a vibe in them and sound great to me, JMHO and the readings are very high on them like 7,5 to 10 KOms! for the X1's and not harsh or ear shattering at all! :party:Quote:
Originally Posted by silent j.
Magnetic loss
My personal experience?
I think wax-potted overwound/tapped single coils w/fat pole pieces sound wonderful in an '80s, boutiquish Strat. The secret is to submerge them dirty salt water for a few hours when they're 9 years-old, then rinse and spray well w/contact cleaner. Install new pots & switches, and use regularly for 16-17 years.
After that, the high-E pole on the bridge p'up may become noticibly weak.
Pretty great up to that point though.
Full disclosure: My perception of the results might be skewed by the stain and lacquer only refinish performed when the guitar was roughly 17 years-old.
Everything older sounds better!
good thing we are all getting older.
Not Sinatra.Quote:
Originally Posted by grandturk
Sad, but true.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoFauve
Does gear really sound better as it gets older -- or does our hearing just get worse as *we* get older?
Hm....
Best sounding pickups I have ever had (an I have had a bunch) were a set of Lindy Fralins and the 60s CS Fenders in my CS Strat. And both sets were brand spankin' new.
Age my have a positive effect in someway and somehow but I have never experienced that. I go with Jim, all old pickups I had stopped working cause they were old...
But then again I have never had a set of short magnet vintage PAFs or something...
I had a 68 Strat where I had to have the pickups rewound cause they were crapping out and in the rewinding process the tech noticed that the magnets had lost their UMPH or whatever you call it and we simply replaced them with some nice Seymour Duncan thingies and the geetar sounded even better than it did originally....
I think age is a hit or miss thing just like new pickups can be a hit or miss tone wise...
Yeeowch. Ain't that the truth. By the time they started calling him The Chairman Of The Board, it was long past.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoFauve
I've had a bunch of 70s Strats and Teles that sounded very mediocre.
I've had my '76 Strat for 25 years because it plays great and has athe best neck and middle pickup I've heard (but a crappy bridge pickup which I had to replace years ago).
I have 2 newer Strats and 2 newer Teles that sounded great right off the rack.
I would only buy a new instrument at this point.
Just assembled an old X1 in the bridge and it is by far the best ever heard in this very difficult Strat position, shimmering and bell like highs and the lows are to die for, the winds are machine wound neath as can be and the pu is only wound half of what can be done on the spool and sounds so good, 10 K0hms on the readings and this one wil stay there for ever!! :XRE
I have a early 50's flatpole Tele pickup that appeared to be shorted; low output, etc. It's been put away for eventual rewind, but I pulled it out the other day and it reads about 5.9K (go figure). Put it in my old '52 RI and it sounds great...worlds away from any of the dozen or so newer bridge pickups I've tried in the last 10 years or so.
Go figure, it,s all about what it sounds like and now a days most people only go for the readings and vintage specs. There are a lot of good pickups around and the ones from the early 80ies are realy worth trying! I have 2 pickups from the Strat middle and x1 and a vintage reisue from about 1988 in this configuaration:
7,5 KOhms reading middle from the Strat in Neck 1980
6,2 KOhms reading Midle from Vintage Reisue 1988
10 KOhms reading Bridge (X1) from the Strat in Bridge 1980,
These sound so wonderfull I do not want to change and especially the in-betweens 2 and 4 are very good for me, tone for Neck and one for Bridge and the Middle wide open to compensate! :sun
As far as old vs. new pups,it depends on who is doing the winding. :salud:
My winder has my heart,and has nailed everything in my head from tele to strat to bucker to P-90.:appl:
Old crappy pickups still sound crappy. To me, anyway.
Old good pickups still sound good.
New good pickups sound good too.
I think new pickups sound best when they are made like old ones.
Amp and mic trumps all pickups.
Was actually just reading about old pick-ups and why they can't be re-created exactly with new pick-ups of the same make. Besides things like corrosion, the magnets become de-magnetized from sharp weather changes, sweat, dirt and anytime the guitar is laid next to a device that emmits an electronic feild such as a speaker or amplifier, and can de-magnetize the magnets as well (which happens alot). This obviously becomes specific to what that guitar has been through and will change that guitars individual sound. Cheap pick-ups that don't protect against the elements very well (like the ones that were in my MIM strat) really lose their sound quality after they've had extensive use.
Blues Breakers featuring Eric Clapton
Duane Allman entire recorded output
Every Mick Taylor-era Stones album
Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac
Every Cream album
Blind Faith
Every Beatles record
Layla
Jeff Beck's Truth, Beck-Ola, Rough and Ready, etc.
Led Zeppelin I, II, III and IV
Every Jimi Hendrix record
All recorded with guitars that were at most fifteen years old. Most were done with guitars less than ten years old. Many were done with brand new guitars. :arhhh:
Going by that track record, nobody should buy an instrument made before 1996.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kap'n
Now that really is some food for thought! It has certainly crossed my mind as well. It is not how old it is...it is what you do with it. Practice, practice practice.....
You are right
I used to work for the company that supplies fender and many others with magnets. Alnico tends to lose guass strength over time just enough in some instances to mellow the sound.
This is from one of my former customers site he is a well respected pickup builder...
Pre-CBS 60s Strat®-style wind. Classic Strat tone with full body and punch. Overall tone has a prominent midrange, clear treble and a full bass that has a defined piano like attack. Scatter wound wax potted coils with Alnico 5 magnets degaussed to typical vintage 60s strat pickup specs. Medium output. Vintage style cloth covered lead wire. Middle is RWRP for humbucking operation in positions 2 and 4. Flatpole.
Marketing language never reflects reality; instead, it reflects the prejudices and desires of the prospective customer. "Scatter wound" is virtually meaningless, as are "class A," "classic British EQ," "true vintage tone," and dozens of other MI cliches, and you can take it from me (a 30-year advertising "creative"), the guys who use those terms know they're bullshit. But they also know that the people who buy want to hear them.
So are you saying you spent 30 years in advertising, cranking out bullshit?
Yes, frequently.
I was once working on package design for a fan company, arguing with their marketing director over feature wording, because he wanted Yo say something in such a way that a potential buyer might get an inflated impression of the unit's power. "We shouldn't say that, Bill," sez I. "It's misleading."
"You don't understand," he sez. "We want to mislead them. We just don't wanna go to jail."
Har de har har. That's a big part of why I make music now instead if working as a creative director. I am rarely asked to lie.
My previous point should be clear enough, regardless of what I may or may not have done on my career: guys with stuff for sale will not bother with instructing you in the truth when it so much easier to get you to buy telling you what you already "know."
This is the luck of the draw type thing, My pups are all pretty old and sound good but they sounded good when I bought them so who's to say. And I think it is very subjective relative to your tastes.
I've had old and new that sounded good...........and some that sounded lifeless.
It's like finding dinosaur feces.....many many years later,well.....it's still what it is.
My general rule of thumb is if the pickup sounds bad in a new guitar I replace it with a SD or DiMarzio or whatever I am looking for
If it sounds OK I leave it.
Some of my guitars have factory SD pickups and one in particular has factory SD Alnico II that sound amazing.
Pickup Mfgs usually put more time and LOTS better materials into pickups because that's all they do. Some of my old pickups sounded terrible because they were made relatively cheap without much thougt going into design
Thought i should add
I have had countless vintage guitars. a 1966 ES-355 had nice Gibby PAFs and they sounded good,Would i pay $300 for another pair? no way
My current 88 LP Custom Gibby pups sound great, my 75 SG pups never sounded good and became microphonic
My 56 strat pups sounded weak but my custom shop 56 with CS 50s pups sound amazing
I don't like the X-1 at all. I also just sold a set of the MIA vintage reissue pups that where in my 83 Squier Japanese Vintage strat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gold Strat
I like the 57/62 , and other makers pups alot better. Like D.Allen , Jeff Chevalier etc.
IDK why people pay top dollar for X-1 pups I suspose it has to do with the same market hype going on about mid to late 70's strat being collectable. IDK all B.S. IMO
Bill says magnets do not lose powerQuote:
Originally Posted by Gold Strat
http://www.billlawrence.com/Pages/Pi...gy/magnets.htm
Alnico 5 magnets degaussed to typical vintage 60s strat pickup specs.
They are stepping down the magnetic pull
A '66 wouldn't have PAFs stock....Quote:
Originally Posted by JM3
Also---find me a pair of PAFs for $300,I'LL buy 'em.:ola
That was my first opinion as well, now I play them (X-1s) and realy like the sound in Bridge position with a little tone rolled off, this is the reason for starting this thread because they do seem to be going more rounded and less ice-picky over the years and can scream like an Eagle now with great bass response. For my middle I have an early 57-62 pu from the late 80ies these were in the Vintage RI Strats and were replaced for a more accurate and less sounding more correct vintage pick-up. Tone and sound is very personal, for me the X-1 is great and wil never leave the Bridge position unless it is an original PAF Humbucker (LOL)Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
And in Holland they are not much on the market and very unknown, so I didn't pay top$$ for them. :bhQuote:
Originally Posted by Gold Strat
:applaudit :appl: :salud: :sign11:Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
I've got a set of DiMarzio FS1s (3) from the late 70s that were in an 11+ pound '79 Strat I got from a co-worker. I confirmed the age of pickups with Larry DiMarzio and while doing so asked why I had two in 10K ohm range (IIRC) and one in the 8k range. He replied that it was probably the mags. He stated they were originally wound to 11k-12k.
I may play with them here shortly in the bridge of my next partscaster. I'd like to compare the two and listen for any diffs between the 10k and the 8k. I'm bettin' it's not audible but I'm still curious.:sun
I have sold magnets to countless pickup winders and have probably owned several hundred pickups from all different sources
(Yes BL is a customer too) It really comes down to if you like it keep it
There is so much hyperbole in theory behind pickups and a TON of boutique winders out there too.
Gibson 1959 - 60 Double White PAF Pickup Set
One set of original 1959-'60 double white PAF's (no covers included), pickups read 9.02K & 8.57K, adjustable pole piece screws are nickel, both pickups have long enough leads for either position in a Les Paul, I have owned this pair for the last 5 years and they are an oustanding sounding pair of pickups! Tons of harmonics and overtones and even though they're really hot there's plenty of top end, (some hot PAF's can really lack top end).
Ya gotta be friggin nuts to buy sumthin like this no matter how good they sound. I would take the $8,800 after buying a decent pair i and add on to our house first
Wow 10K .Quote:
Originally Posted by DanD
I don't agree with Larry on the mags. I mean they probably where just under spec to begin with. My 83 Fender pups are 5.9K thats what they where in 83 as far as I know! I don't expect them to drop a K or two in the next 4 years LOL
Sounds like the same B.S. Seymour sprouted off about . Nothing new and don't mean a thing really. IMOQuote:
Originally Posted by JM3
I like using outsourced newer pickups because they are built better
with over 30 years of playing and touring, I know what i like and I do know i cannot build them myself.
Most I replaced became old and microphonic or just did not sound good
1) 1975 Gibson SG DiMarzio PAF Plus pickups I split the coils with a push/pull pot volume knob. Big beefy sound
2) 1987 Gibson burst LP standard SD JB in lead DiMarzio PAF in rhythm JB sounds great Split coils for great single coil twang.
3) 1988 LP Custom 3 pickup all stock
4) 2004 Explorer stock pickups I think these may be ceramic magnet, put gold covers on them
5) 2002 PRS CE-22 stock pickups (dragons I believe)
6) 2004 72 RI Fender Thinline with humbuckers stock pickups they sound great!
7) 1986 Esquire Custom SD ¼ lb pickups sound powerful and nice
8) TC-90 SD s p-90 soapbars Sound great!!!
9) 1997 Fender John Jorgensen Hellecaster custom made SD split coil design
10) 1997 Jerry Donohugh signature Hellecaster Strat SD Alnico II Best strat pickups I own.
11) 2001 AIMM USA special edition strat with 70’s overwound GFS pickups
12) 2007 56 RI NOS custom shop strat with CS 50’S pups,
13) 2007 Eric Johnson Strat stock pickups
14) Gretsch Electromatic stock pickups small humbucker type
15) Ibanez Sabre S470 stock pickups
16) 1997 50’s classic series strat Duncan JB in bridge DiMarzio Class of 55 in middle Good rock strat
17) Danelectrco SC-3 lipstick pickups stock
Hey Kap - great point... I've always maintained that if you can't get a tune and/or tone out of a decent $200 guitar then... well... you're gonna need a better amp or a big box o' tricks...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kap'n
Things I have discovered for very little dough are GFS pickups... love their 8K 'Pro-Tubes' lipstick in the neck position on a Strat or Tele... awesome deep cleans from a p/u that - unlike the vast majority of p/u's designed for the bridge position - when placed in the neck - still produce an unbelievably smooth and rich yet clean and clear 'metallic' alnico response... with more output... then all you need to find are the rest to go with it... :D :D