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Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Help! I brought my amp to a prominent Boston Fender authorized repair shop because I was getting a blown speaker-farting sound on the low E string, F, F# & G.
I replaced the 12AX7's a few months ago, and as long as the unit was it for repair had them replace the 6L6's.
They had it a week, paid the $100, took it home, 1/2 hour after warm up and playing, it was back again. After bring it back two more times, and being told by a Berklee student employee that there was nothing wrong with the amp, I gave up on them.
I had swapped chords, guitars, with and without effects, nothing seemed to fix it.
Brought it to a trusted local music store, with a letter describing the past repair attempts, and a week later, and another $100 got it back with resistors replaced in the power supply.
1/2 hour into playing, the farting was back. Now they have had my amp for four weeks and I can't get an answer from them.
I turn to the Guru's of Fender amps. What do the god's require of me to remedy my torture?
Humbly
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Hey, Psychorelic. I'm sorry to hear about your troubles with your amp.
I'm sure the people here will advise you to sell that amp and get something better. :D
I'm just going to commiserate with you. I got a Twin off the 'bay over a year ago. The day I got it, it started cutting out. It was really weird. I had it to two different techs - they did the same, fiddled around with a few components. Then I'd get it back and it would do the same thing.
Finally, I sent it to TJ (known as NTBluesGuitar around these parts). He did a complete rebuild - took out the PCB and did a new point-to-point build to old blackface specs.
I got the amp back only a few weeks ago and... problem still there! But now I'd narrowed it down to the speaker. So I recently ordered a new one from Weber and I'm awaiting its arrival. In the meantime, I'm using a PA speaker with the Twin and even through that it sounds sweet.
So, my recommendation would be to get on TJ's waiting list for a rebuild. You'll end up with a MUCH better amp. Otherwise, you could end up chasing your tail (and spending money) on your HRDlx - a model with some known reliability issues.
Good luck!
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
The Great Carnac sez......
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...Man/Carnac.jpg
"Trade up for a Deluxe Reverb Re-issue!"
:D
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Thanks for the advice,
First, I'd hate to trade it in, as it sounds great for 1/2 hour, then have some other poor dope, buy it and end up with my problems.
My backup is a mint '65 Deluxe Reverb Black Face; now you know how much I hate to bring that out of the studio to a gig!
Hey Phantomman, was in Goodyear last week!.
Tom
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Was it cool enough for you?
(I think it hit 109º up there)
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
113 here in Pigeontown today...
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
This sounds more like a bias issue than an amp specific (HRDx vs anything else) issue.
Perhaps what has happened is the power tubes were replaced (as you indicate they were) and either the amp wasn't rebiased at that time, or it was rebiased but while the tubes were "cold". A good solid bias job would involve setting the bias once tubes were replaced and the amp initially turned on, and then recheck the bias over a period of time as the amp warms up.
The tech wants to check it early to make sure the tubes aren't either too hot or too cold on startup, but they should make the final adjustments after it has reached normal operating temperature to ensure there has been no drift. From your description, it doesn't appear as if either of the repair shops did this (though they still might have). Most shops are busy and getting the amp off the bench so another one can be put on takes priority. Leaving an amp sit on the bench for a half hour or longer means less repairs made in the course of a day, unless they have lots of room.
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
I could dig up an old thread with this exact set of symptoms......
I think it is how my problems started, (With that amp anyway)....
and my introduction into the Fender Forum.
Since then - I have reapaired about 6-8 and my own.
Humor me......I won't tell you it sucks, trade it or anything yet.......
unplugged, with the back cover open, gently wiggle the V1, V2 and V3 tubes (the three 12ax7's) one at a time, while watching the solder on the circiut board where the tube socket is mounted.
If the solder moves, you have a crappy solder joint that needed resoldered.
the second thing I would recommend looking at is the actual tubes, one at a time, especially around the base.....look for cracking.
Had both of these issues more than once.
Next is some cement resistor, the board, aliens, gremlins, etc......
these two things are fairly easy to check.
BTW - do you know Johnny Duke?
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
sorry to get off topic, but 109 degrees? 113 Degrees? DANG! stay hydrated friends!
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
BUT IT'S A DRY HEAT!
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...tsADryHeat.jpg
:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Quote:
Originally Posted by
phantomman
:applaudit :applaudit :applaudit :applaudit
Dang Humidity here on the East coast is killin' me! When I get home from work It Looks like I just walked outta Niagra falls!
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Thanks to everyone...I am picking up the amp today, will double check tubes, dig out the multimeter and biad the 6L6's.
Put the solder pencil to any suspect looking connections, and maybe put the old 12AX7's in to see if the tubes were crappy!
My 65 Deluxe Reverb Black Face never has these problems, and I love the tone thru the Fender 2 - 15" old bass man cabinet, especially with the Rhodes thru it!
Glendale/Goodyear was 114 for the week that I was there.
Again Thanks all!
Tom ROCKland, MA
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Psychorelic
My 65 Deluxe Reverb Black Face never has these problems...
It's an entirely different PCB design with chassis mounted tube sockets.
It makes a TON of difference.
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
No No No!
Not Again.......Another HRD is dying thread......
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Some feel that death is but the beginning...
:D
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Indeed!
All HRDlx amps reincarnate as FM212's.
:biglaugh:
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
If it happens when the amp gets hot, sounds like it's heat related, and a bad connection. Heat=resistance=more heat=more resistance.
Do like Frank says and take a gander at those solder joints.
TJ, your sig almost brings a tear to my eye!
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boobtube21
TJ, your sig almost brings a tear to my eye!
Yep, that was a wonderful sentiment...back in the days when this land was not run by a democratically-elected president and congress who represented more than half the country's wishes! :D
:couch
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boobtube21
TJ, your sig almost brings a tear to my eye!
Yeah, I was moved, too, when I discovered it during some recent reading.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
phantomman
All HRDlx amps reincarnate as FM212's.
I was thinking more along the lines of certain '50s Fender Split-Load PI-based amps.
:D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
elicross
Yep, that was a wonderful sentiment...back in the days when this land was not run by a democratically-elected president and congress who represented more than half the country's wishes! :D
:couch
*sigh* You know how Jeffersonian I am about this stuff, Eli. Oh, I will add that this view points to a pure democratic view; where a bare majority of popular vote rules. However, in a supposed representative republic, there's more involved than just a popular majority. Bare democracy allows for mob rule, which in turn resorts to despotism and in the end anarchy. There's no representation for any minority in a pure democracy. The representative republic is the genius of our founders' principles.
The first half of that Sam Adams quote that I left out gives even more context, but I intentionally left it out for fears it might be taken as too 'pointed'. But, since you referenced it:
Quote:
"In a state of tranquillity, wealth, and luxury, our descendants would forget the arts of war and the noble activity and zeal which made their ancestors invincible. Every art of corruption would be employed to loosen the bond of union which renders our resistance formidable. When the spirit of liberty, which now animates our hearts and gives success to our arms, is extinct, our numbers will accelerate our ruin and render us easier victims to tyranny."
Puts a whole new spin on the beer, eh?
Back to Democracy versus Republic... 52.9% of the popular vote is not enough to justify "fundamentally transforming the United States of America." (Obama's words from five days before the 2008 election. Far from speaking metaphorically when taken in context of certain Alinsky methods that he was a student/professor of.)
In our Republic, that sort of action requires three quarters approval from the House and Senate, plus three quarters of the states' ratification...unless a pure democracy is that fundamental transformation he was referring to and is seemingly trying to institute.
And before any points surface referencing the (late-second-term) Bush administration, this applies to them, too.
:ola
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NTBluesGuitar
Puts a whole new spin on the beer, eh?
I suppose. I gotta say, though, adding the rest of the quote doesn't make it seem any more relevant to today. We are not subjects to an overseas monarch; the fact that you didn't vote for the current president and legislative majority does not make them tyrants.
That is all. :)
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Quote:
Originally Posted by
elicross
the fact that you didn't vote for the current president and legislative majority does not make them tyrants.
Uh......yeah.
Right.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...gsterobama.jpg
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
I've always appreciated the high level of intellectual rigor you bring to political discourse. :biglaugh:
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Buy a Deluxe Reverb reissue!
Oops.
Wrong room again.
Welp, I'm kind of busy.
AIG just sent a man to pay me to protest somewhere.
Better go get my "marching orders".
:D
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
You got yours from AIG? Dang, I just got my orders from Allstate...or is that All-STATIST :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
elicross
We are not subjects to an overseas monarch; the fact that you didn't vote for the current president and legislative majority does not make them tyrants.
More Sam Adams:
"How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words!"
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Wait - Am I the tyrant in this analogy? Or a tool of tyrants? Or just a tool? :laughing:
I'm not sure how I perverted your words. Do I now have to register as a perverted word offender?
It's a fact that a lot of conservatives are using words like "tyranny" in criticizing the current government. They're using "tea party" analogies and other references to the Revolution to imply that the current government is some sort of unlawful monarchy, rather than the latest duly elected majority. Some of these people claim it's not about President Obama or the Democratic Party, that they felt this way when Bush and the GOP were in power, too -- but I find it telling that most of them have only begun to voice their distaste for the federal government since around January of this year.
If these things don't describe you, TJ -- or if your Sam Adams quotes are in reference to something other than the current government being a tyranny -- then I'm sincerely sorry I've misunderstood you.
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
What the hell does all this have to do with fixing this amp?
Let's keep it on subject. How about discussing the pros and cons of Obama taking over FMIC, if that would improve the HR series or not. :laughing:
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Roger oughtta be able to find a Photoshop of President Obama playing a CBS-era Strat pretty quick, if history's any indication. :D
But does more heat really equal more resistance? I always thought conductors generally got more...conductive?...as they heated up.
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Quote:
Originally Posted by
phantomman
Was it cool enough for you?
(I think it hit 109º up there)
Yeah, but it's not the heat, it's the humility.
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
How about a photoshop of a guy carrying in his HRDx to a "cash for clunkers" event? :laughing:
Just kidding HR owners.
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
So... Hot Rod Devilles and Hot Rod Deluxes... Crap?
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Quote:
Originally Posted by
grandturk
So... Hot Rod Devilles and Hot Rod Deluxes... Crap?
In the opinion of a lot of people on this board (and a bunch of repair folks), yes.
Not that it matters. FMIC continues to sell a zillion of them...until maybe the last price increase.
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Grandturk, for whatever reason FMIC took this route is beyond comprehension.
It is a very popular series.
But as Kap'n hints, it misses on the bang-for-the-buck quality.
Not that they can't build a quality amp for a good price, either.
The Princeton reissues will settle into a reasonable price, and the reissue Deluxe Reverbs although built on the same principles as the HRDX series (circuit boards, etc), have stood the test of time already.
And I think they have done the Champ 600 right.
It retains the classic tone and is a sturdy build.
So, sad to say, they flubbed a lot of things on them, but they move because they are cheap.
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
And as long as they sell so well, there's no incentive for FMIC to change the way they build the Hot Rod amps. Tons of people still seem to be willing to take their chances with these amps, so as far Fender's concerned, they ain't broke. (Or, at least, as far as the decision-makers at Fender are concerned.)
I don't have any real experience with the Hot Rod amps. I've heard a Hot Rod Deluxe sound pretty darn good when a talented guitarist was playing a nice axe through it -- but I've seen enough anecdotal evidence about quality problems that I could never buy one myself. Unless I maybe I was buying a dead, used one for TJ to hand-wire a 5E3 in. :D
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Quote:
Originally Posted by
elicross
And as long as they sell so well, there's no incentive for FMIC to change the way they build the Hot Rod amps.
For years, FEI's products were FMI/FMIC's biggest competition.
If they build 'em like the HRDx, they'll never need to worry about that again.
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
A little "planned obsolescence," you think? :smile:
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Quote:
Originally Posted by
elicross
but I find it telling that most of them have only begun to voice their distaste for the federal government since around January of this year.
Having a issue with "community organizing", are we?
:biglaugh:
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
If I had even an inkling what that's supposed to mean, I'd totally write you a great response, PM. :laughing:
(What happened -- Is Google Image Search down tonight?)
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cygnus X1
Not that they can't build a quality amp for a good price, either.
The Princeton reissues will settle into a reasonable price, and the reissue Deluxe Reverbs although built on the same principles as the HRDX series (circuit boards, etc), have stood the test of time already.
I really like the Princeton and the Lux Verb reissues - the Princeton especially. Nice sound with the vibrato and cranked they break up nice.
So, the Blues Jr - same thing as the Hot Rod and the Deville? Built like crap? I was kind of thinking about a Blues Jr and a Princeton. But maybe not anymore (just stick to my Boogie...).
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Originally Posted by elicross View Post
but I find it telling that most of them have only begun to voice their distaste for the federal government since around January of this year.
Just what are you tryin to say here?
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
I think there's a hole in the universe around here.
Like a wormhole!
Grandturk, I have not played or opened up a Blues Jr. but some members around these parts say they are ok.
It might depend whether you're registered Republicrat, Demican, or GreenLiberconstitutionalsocialist.
Or whatever.
:Hiccup:
Oh, and
:burp:
:D
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Quote:
Originally Posted by
guitarjk
Originally Posted by elicross View Post
but I find it telling that most of them have only begun to voice their distaste for the federal government since around January of this year.
Just what are you tryin to say here?
I'm trying -- and succeeding -- in saying "I find it telling that most of them have only begun to voice their distaste for the federal government since around January of this year." :hi:
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Quote:
Originally Posted by
guitarjk
Originally Posted by elicross View Post
but I find it telling that most of them have only begun to voice their distaste for the federal government since around January of this year.
Just what are you tryin to say here?
Welcome to the forum.
And try not to step in anything icky in DogPatch.
:band
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
I am not going to get into a Pissing contest but previous to this election there was plenty of complaints ag
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
I am not going to get into a Pissing contest but previous to this election there were plenty of complaints against the party in office at that time. There were all kinds of complaints going on at the time . You could tune in daily to the national news & get your daily supply of Bush Bashing. I was raised by good god fearing parents that were democatic party supporters all of their lives. Along the times of the Jimmy Carter Term my eyes were opened. This is my opinion & a lot of good men have died to give me the right to express these feelings. SO HERE IT IS YOU KNOW WHERE I STAND!!! YOUR TURN!@!!!
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Only the owners of HRDX's have a legitimate right to protest.
All others are just....hmmm.
Well, they are Just.
:D
I only protest when paid by Corporate Giants.
Otherwise I just stay silent, for I have no brain to process it.
That's the story, and I'm sticking to it.
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
I had a Hot Rod Deluxe & manged to keep it going for about 5 yrs. I finally woke up & bought a DRRI. I apologize for getting off topic on this thread but sometimes you sit back an watch until you can't take it anymore. To all, have a good night!
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Quote:
Originally Posted by
guitarjk
I am not going to get into a Pissing contest but previous to this election there were plenty of complaints against the party in office at that time. There was all kinds of complaints going on at the time by. You could daily tune in to the national news & get your daily supply of Bush Bashing. I was raised by good god fearing parents that were democatic party supporters all of their lives. Along the times of the Jimmy Carter Term my eyes were opened. This is my opinion & a lot of good men have died to give me the right to express these feeelings. SO HERE IT IS YOU KNOW WHERE I STAND!!! YOUR TURN!@!!!
OKAY!@!!!
Thanks for acknowledging that I deserve a turn.
"Previous to the election, there were plenty of complaints" because there was plenty to complain about. Which is why Bush had the lowest job approval rating since they started recording that stuff. Ignored intelligence about a terrorist attack on the U.S. using hijacked planes; lied us into a war with a country that didn't attack us, resulting in the deaths of thousands of U.S. troops, not to mention all the civilians who died on both sides; spied illegally on U.S. citizens; held people in prison for years without trial; tortured people...
...yeah. There was plenty to complain about.
President Obama, on the other hand, hasn't even been in office for seven months. And yet we've got conservatives weeping on national television, wailing "I want my country back!" We've got "tea parties," where conservatives imply that the country is under some illegal foreign occupation that should be overthrown. We've got conservatives calling the current government "tyranny." We've got conservatives demonstrating by hanging Democratic legislators in effigy and displaying tombstones with Democratic legislators' names on them.
All of this, mind you, in about six and a half months since the duly-elected Democratic president and the duly-elected Democratic legislative majority were sworn into office.
So, yeah. Complaints about the federal government have always been around. But they've taken a very different and very disturbing form since President Obama and the Democratic majority took control.
And let's face it -- it's been six months. The new government hasn't even had a chance to make any huge changes to the status quo. So where are these wails of "I want my country back" coming from? Not from what the new government has done, but from what the new government *is*. A Democratic majority led by a relatively young black man.
That's what has people up in arms so early in President Obama's administration.
And since you asked and needed clarification: that's what I'm saying.
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
I am not going to show anymore lack of respect for the content of this thread. I had a Hot Rod Deluxe. I fixed bad solder joints on the tube sockets, I replaced resistors, I modded the overdrive channel & the amp sounded ok. I bought a DRRI & it was the best thing I ever done.
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Quote:
Originally Posted by
guitarjk
I am not going to show anymore lack of respect for the content of this thread.
I find this decision admirable, but the timing is highly suspect. :laughing:
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
I am not going to show anymore lack of respect for the content of this thread.
I find this decision admirable, but the timing is highly suspect
?
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
That, my friend, is an excellent reproduction of our most recent posts.
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Alright, that's enough political spitfire. I realize politics cause people on both sides of the fence to get their panties in a bunch but you know that old saying, "Choose your battles?"
In this case, let us choose them based on NOT ONLY how worth it the "victory" is, but also the fact that:
--You're on a forum dedicated to a love of musical instruments.
--You're posting in a thread about someone's amp problems.
I know, first amendment, you can talk about whatever you want, blah blah blah. But that's what the whammy bar is for, off topic stuff.
Sorry, just getting tired of all the hostility around here lately. A mention of politics here and there is one thing but everytime that happens there's a three-page heated debate about it now. So what if someone disagrees with your views? Do you really think your post is going to change their life???
Someone mentioned in another thread how "the landscape has changed recently", not sure if this is what they were referring to but it sure could have been. Talk about beating a dead horse, I think the horse has been carried off and buried by now, and some of us are just beating the concrete.
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
You might be surprised to find that I don't think the First Amendment applies here. This is a message board, after all, not the public square.
Having said that...I withheld comment about the Sam Adams quote in TJ's sig until someone in this thread commented on it. I'd go back and find just who it was who commented on it...but we know who that was, don't we, BT? :D
As for the thread and its topic...it was right around Post #12 that the original poster thanked everyone for their responses and bowed out with the answer he wanted. And that was after the usual number of posts about how he should just get a DRRI, and a few posts about the weather someone was experiencing somewhere.
All of which is to say: The thread was already finished and off-topic before the political discussion started, and you'd be quite surprised at whose post started it. :laughing:
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
That, my friend, is an excellent reproduction of our most recent posts.
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Quote:
Originally Posted by
grandturk
I really like the Princeton and the Lux Verb reissues - the Princeton especially. Nice sound with the vibrato and cranked they break up nice.
So, the Blues Jr - same thing as the Hot Rod and the Deville? Built like crap? I was kind of thinking about a Blues Jr and a Princeton. But maybe not anymore (just stick to my Boogie...).
At our local shop that employs three of the best techs in the area, the shop owner has offered to let me work on all the Blues Jrs, Hot Rod Deluxes and Blues Deluxes he gets in as his techs don't want to work on them anymore.
By the way has anyone bought their chia Obamas yet?
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
:up
Whoops!
I meant...yeah, people are blinded by the crazy cheap price.
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
Does everybody know the Chia Obama is a real thing?
http://www.chiaobama.com/
I want one. "Hail to the Ch-Ch-Ch-Chief!" Heh.
DUBYA NEVER GOT HIS OWN CHIA HEAD! :laughing:
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Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Repair Nightmare
That's because it wouldn't hold water.
(it was too easy, I know...)