Slide Clinic

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Originally posted by pbradt
I don't use an unwound G, I like it wound, myself. Keep in mind that when you're playing slide, you only need to put the slide on the strings you're playing, not all the way across the fretboard. I had mine radiused to 12" (the nut and bridge, not the fretboard) which helped.

Also keep in mind, strimg muting is paramount in doing this.

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String muting is whole science unto itself, so far I find that using my little finger for the slide and ring finger for muting is working quite well but I still have much work to do there. If I read between the lines on your post I think you're suggesting that I work a bit more on this before messing with the guitar set up.

As for the string set up, I'm not sure what the radius is on the current bridge but the nut is not radiused at all on this old thing.
I have a couple of new bridges here and maybe after working a bit more on the muting I'll mess with them and see what works best for me.
Thanks again.

Quote:

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Originally posted by lyles
String muting is whole science unto itself, so far I find that using my little finger for the slide and ring finger for muting is working quite well but I still have much work to do there. If I read between the lines on your post I think you're suggesting that I work a bit more on this before messing with the guitar set up.

As for the string set up, I'm not sure what the radius is on the current bridge but the nut is not radiused at all on this old thing.
I have a couple of new bridges here and maybe after working a bit more on the muting I'll mess with them and see what works best for me.
Thanks again.

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When I speak of string muting, I don't just mean left-hand, I mean right hand too. It's why I finger pick when sliding. Fingers not plucking strings are muting strings. It's a great way to keep it all under control.

Quote:

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Originally posted by pbradt
When I speak of string muting, I don't just mean left-hand, I mean right hand too. It's why I finger pick when sliding. Fingers not plucking strings are muting strings. It's a great way to keep it all under control.

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Right hand muting puts a whole new spin it. I hadn't even
considered that. Now, correct me if I'm wrong but don't we want a little buzz when playing slide? If it is muted with both hands won't it be a bit too clean?
I'm listening to some old Elmore slide and he's pretty 'dirty' compared to say Lee Roy or Sonny. Any comments on that?

Quote:

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Originally posted by lyles
Now, correct me if I'm wrong but don't we want a little buzz when playing slide?

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Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Being able to go from cool & clean( Lowell) to wild & nasty (Hound Dog) is all part of the dynamic. And slide playing is all about dynamics...

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Originally posted by fezz parka
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Being able to go from cool & clean( Lowell) to wild & nasty (Hound Dog) is all part of the dynamic. And slide playing is all about dynamics...

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OK I'm getting it now. The way the song is to be relayed will determine how gritty the slide is. I guess I should have figured that out for myself. A lot of the tunes we do are clean and a some are really dirty with full reverb to get the different effects we desire. I guess slide isn't any different from that point.

Thanks

Quote:

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Originally posted by lyles
OK I'm getting it now. The way the song is to be relayed will determine how gritty the slide is. I guess I should have figured that out for myself. A lot of the tunes we do are clean and a some are really dirty with full reverb to get the different effects we desire. I guess slide isn't any different from that point.

Thanks

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I have lots of control over that, but I've been doing it for a while. I think with a Strat and a Deluxe, you can pretty much do whatever you want. Right hand muting is for a different purpose than left hand muting, right hand muting is to mute extraneous notes (strings) you don't want vibrating. Left hand muting is to calm the "cat-fight" tone that sometimes happens. That "cat-fight" thing is why I am only moderately enthusiastic about Bonnie Raitt's playing. Between the fingerpicks (metal) and the lack of left-hand muting (watc her play sometime), she gets a lot of Cat Fight.

P.S., I never use reverb on the gig. I do use some when recording but always in post, never DURING recording.

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"When I speak of string muting, I don't just mean left-hand, I mean right hand too. It's why I finger pick when sliding. Fingers not plucking strings are muting strings. It's a great way to keep it all under control."

"Work on technique. Dampening is the secret. You will find out, you can transfer your technique to different guitars, just by using more damping/less damping, more touch, lighter touch performances in your playing skills... "


AMEN BROTHAS!

Hmmmmmm. And me tuned to D all the time. I'll try the G.
When I get the old Guild fixed I'll put the strings high and try this.
The sounds a good slide makes shivers-me-timbers.

Shoot you can make any old blues tune heart-wrenching.

Slidedoctor: *smooch!*

I'm a thread killer!!! sorry boyz Sorry Paul Barrere, Sonny L., Lowell, etc. etc.

Guess I'll just talk to myself.


With my wrist giving me fits, I find that open tunings may be mandatory at this stage (I've messed around with them for years on a couple of tunes).

The transition between rhythm tones w/o the slide and leading a bit with slide and a brighter sound have me stumped. Foot switches and smoke and mirrors? Effects? help me...

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Originally posted by Annie D.
Guess I'll just talk to myself.


With my wrist giving me fits, I find that open tunings may be mandatory at this stage (I've messed around with them for years on a couple of tunes).

The transition between rhythm tones w/o the slide and leading a bit with slide and a brighter sound have me stumped. Foot switches and smoke and mirrors? Effects? help me...

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Annie, I just use my Fulldrive for lead tones. it's on, it's off. A Nobels ODR-1 is a good substitute if the FD is a little too spendy.

If you're serious about learning slide, "The Art Of Slide Guitar" with Lee Roy Parnell is a MUST. You will learn a ton of stuff and a buncha my buds were in his band at the time.

Bump

Weekend before last I saw Sonny Landreth playing with John Hiatt on PBS.

Went out the next day and bought Sonny's "The Road We're On".

(in my best Dr. John voice)
Verrrrrrrrah nyyyyyyyyyzzzzzzzzah!

My kid was watching "The Country Bears" video the other day, and whoever is playing slide is really great. The credits said John Hiatt did the music, so is that Sonny Landreth playing the slide parts? Where can I learn slide like that (real melodic single note stuff)? HOW CAN I GET THAT TONE?????:wow

Sorry, went a little ballistic there. I'm better now.

I've recently started playing slide in standard tuning. I'm still in the learning stages, but I know it can be done.

It seems like a few of you frown on this activity. But how can this be wrong: ;)

Click on "She caught the Katie" for some inspiring slide work in Standard Tuning

God Bless Warren Haynes

You gize are great! Lowell, Sonny, Douglas, Cooder, etc. etc. etc.

The fact that you can warble, yodel and slip-n-slide around a note like a fiddle is just incredible. (one little baby step at a time) I lift the slide too far and it comes clanging down real ugly. Still, when time permits, it's great fun to mess around.

SRVDciple!!! Nice to see you! I've been playing slide in standard tuning for years, I love Warren's playing -all in standard tuning by the way........

Great link!


What about Derek Trucks? Check out anything he has done in the studio and you'll be amazed. His playing on the new Allman's cd (Hittin' the Note) is some of the most amazing slide work I have ever heard! Check out his solos on Desdemona, Instrumental Illness and The high Cost of Low Living..... WOW!

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Originally posted by thebluesbarn
What about Derek Trucks? Check out anything he has done in the studio and you'll be amazed. His playing on the new Allman's cd (Hittin' the Note) is some of the most amazing slide work I have ever heard! Check out his solos on Desdemona, Instrumental Illness and The high Cost of Low Living..... WOW!

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Having seen Sonny Landreth, I can safely say, there is not a soul on the planet who touches that guy. I love Lee Roy like a brother, but Sonny is the shit.

The light from my playing would take a million years to reach Sonny.

I now have his sig on my Strat headstock.

tbb,

I have one of Derek's studio albums. He definitely kicks some ass.

I'll have to check out the new ABB disc now!


pbradt,

If you watch the Gov't Mule DVD "The Deepest End", Warren and Sonny perform a great version of "On your way down".

On the cd of that same concert, Warren & Sonny trade off nicely on a rousting version of "32/20 Blues". Warren seems to like to play this song when he's jamming with other noted slide players. An even better version of this tune appears on Mule's LWALHFOF. Derek Trucks smokes on this one!

Damn, I've actually had that Beacon Theater DVD in my hands, only to not buy it.

My interest is piqued now!

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and Oteil? is there any better?

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Only Victor :nelson

Had to buy it just now!!


Can't wait! I alomst quitplaying slide after hearing Derek!

Frank, you suck :fu2

Hi all.
I haven't been able to play guitar for about 3 months, due to swelling and joint pain in my fingers. My docs are having trouble diagnosing it and it's driving me crazy not being able to play.
So I am gonna start learning slide. I plan on checking out the video that has been mentioned and start from there.

Has anyone tried the jetslide? Is it good/bad?
I play a Strat, can anyone suggest a traditional type slide to start with?
What's the tonal characteristics of the different types of slides available. ie; brass, stainless steel, glass, etc.

Thanks
RvF

i've often heard compression is a key to good slide tone. anyone use one, and if so, what are the pros and cons?

for that matter, what about other effects?


oh yeah, i'm a standard tuning guy for the most part (dick around w/ open G and open E on occassion (need a few more guitars to really work on it)), and i use brass and glass (both heavy dunlops) depending on the tone i'm after:glass for duane type stuff, brass for a rawer, punk/blues tone, ala jack white.

Compression is important to slide tone because, when playing slide, the note decays so fast, faster than a fretted note. It may actually sustain longer, but it will decay faster. Compression compensates for that quick decay.

Compression is available from a variety of sources. It doesn't just come from a compressor stomp box. Many OD/distortion devices have a generous amount of compression, just by their very designs. Some small tube amps provide a significant amount of compression, all on their own.

When I'm playing slide through one of my larger amps, I find I need to add compression. Sometimes it is with an OD pedal (a Fulldrive 2 is ideal for this), and sometimes it is clean (I like the Barber Tone Press). When I'm playing slide through a Victoria tweed Deluxe, I don't add anything, because that amp compresses things, just fine.

c'mon guys! i been lookin' for an excuse to work on my slide technique. give me something to mess w/.

p.s. anybody really pursue dobro-to my mind it's a completely different instrument than electric slide guitar, more akin to lap steel. i used to have a fr-50, but it never really felt like a "dobro" (yes, i know dobro is a brand name, but it's less letters to type than "resonator").

Here's my National Style O.
http://www.rdiworld.com/test/Style%20o_5.jpg

hey, this is a cool thread!!


I started reading it & then realized how long it was...I'll have to go back through it again & read it all.


---->I just repaired an old acoustic with a broken neck; installed one of those metal faux-nuts that sits over the stock nut & raise the strings WAY up....it's held in place by the string tension and will pop back off if you want to play "normal"


pretty neat idea, I thought.


anyway, I have this thing permanently setup for slide, and have been bashing around on it trying to figger out slide playing


using thumb/fingerpicks, an old brass slide, and some open tuning...not sure what it is, but it's a chord when I strum all 6 strings!! :D


Question: is there much difference between dobro players & lapsteel players technique?

I started out trying to play lapsteel style, but with the round slide find it's easier holding the gtr normally.....but I love all that dobro playing.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Bolero
Question: is there much difference between dobro players & lapsteel players technique?

I started out trying to play lapsteel style, but with the round slide find it's easier holding the gtr normally.....but I love all that dobro playing.

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The techniques are similar, but a dobro won't have the sustain of a good solid body lap steel. I thnk the best players don't use picks, just flesh on steel.

Bonefish, you are right on regarding slide types for different sounds. (Glass for 'Duane' sound, Brass for "Jack White" tone).

I 'discovered' the MXR 'Dyna Comp' a couple years ago. I read a reprint of an old Lowell George interview where he called the Dyna Comp his secret weapon...or something like that.
I think it's essential if you want to get into Sonny Landreth or Rick Vito territory to have some good compression (and a bit of delay).

A reso guitar with an open tuning is a lot of fun..the real deal as far as delta blues vibe goes.

Quote:

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Originally posted by cooltone
I 'discovered' the MXR 'Dyna Comp' a couple years ago. I read a reprint of an old Lowell George interview where he called the Dyna Comp his secret weapon...or something like that.
I think it's essential if you want to get into Sonny Landreth or Rick Vito territory to have some good compression (and a bit of delay).

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I had a MXR Dyna Comp, it was the best! . I actually only used compression for slide. I have not found a compression unit since that I like, so, I won't use one for a while. I use too many pedals now....

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Originally posted by thebluesbarn
I had a MXR Dyna Comp, it was the best! . I actually only used compression for slide. I have not found a compression unit since that I like, so, I won't use one for a while. I use too many pedals now....

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It's odd, I havea Dyna-Comp but I've never been able to get good slide tone out of it. I get great slide tone out of my Fulltone Fat Boost and a FD2.

spend some time playing scales and intervals on only one string!

Like, if you want to play in the key of E, just play along the high E string up to the twelfth fret. If you want to play in G, start at the 3rd fret, and go up to the 15th, etc.

It'll really help smooth out your glissandos, and help you nail the intonation.

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Originally Posted by thebluesbarn

I'm here. I was in on the first Slide Clinic, not too much on the second one and now I'm here for the 3rd.

I play a lot of standard tuning slide and switch back and forth quite a bit, in fact I have set up all of my guitars to be exactly "Too high for regular playing, too low for slide".

I'm at work now, but I'll find (or out together) a good layout for looking at slide guitar in standard tuning!

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I'm really interested in learning slide in standard tuning. I know it can be done-just how to set the guitar up to get the best of both worlds is my question...at the moment I'm simply a :da

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Originally Posted by cooltone

I keep telling myself to have a dedicated guitar for slide, but I can't seem to decide which one!! I'll use that as an excuse to buy a new one!!:D

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Which is exactly the problem I have...I keep saying, "OK....the red strat for standard, white strat for slide...wait...the white one really has the better neck of the two...but the red one resonates a little better...oh CRAP!!!"....I can't do it:(

Maybe buy a Squire Tele for slide???? :D

still in splints. laying it in my lap ala-Healy. using a paperweight with domeness. kinda rock it around. totally different than holding it in your arms.

still suck, havin' lotsa fun, though.

perhaps i should explore "wind instruments".

Annie, did you ever get the Parnell vid?

I play slide and standard fingering on all of my guitars. They are all set up "too low for slide, too high for fingering"..

As far as playing in standard tuning, I can't find anything on it in my records -and have not gotten around to doind a new one... I'm lazy you know!

I can't play in standard tuning any more. I hate it. Too many things I do that I can't do in standard tuning. I also can't stand not using a dedicated guitar. I really like my Strat for slide and it's totally set up for it.

But if your system works for it, more powah to yaz.

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Annie, did you ever get the Parnell vid?

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hell no..............it's beaucoup bucks and i can't find the notes in reg'lar.

sumday i will, amigo, 'cause i get so confounded and lost on the frets:

where IS THAT NOTE I HEAR?!? (not like keys where they're always in the same spot, even in the dark) :wah

Without the vibrato,"touch" Slides gonna suck.

Here's the big tip. Ringo's "Back off Boogaloo". Some guy name George Harrison plays slide on it. He plays in Unison, to the words back off boogaloo. Keep up with that and you will have great vibrato.
My first open tuning stuff I did on guitar was If not for you in an open tuning,hting all strings ,playing it like a chord. That was some30+ years ago.

Great thread bump!

Slide is a great form of guitar playing, I've been a little dismayed at the lack of interest in it, in this forum.

Heavy glass and open G, baby!

I've got the frist riff down and sounding pretty good. how bout some more when you get time??thanks for your time!

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Originally Posted by teleman1

Without the vibrato,"touch" Slides gonna suck.

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Tell that to Derek Trucks fans!

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Originally Posted by melody

I've got the frist riff down and sounding pretty good. how bout some more when you get time??thanks for your time!

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If you're just learning, I suggest the video "The Art of Slide Guitar" with Lee Roy Parnell. Great started vid and you get to see a bunch of my buds playing.

Which riff did you learn?

This one and i must say its cool as hell. i used it last night jamming with some buds just doing a e boogie thing mixing it up and i even amazed myself. everone was askin if i've been fooling around with the slide all i could say is a littel bit.



Here is a riff from that pattern:

s s
E|------------------------------------
B|----------8/9----------------------
G|---------------9-------7-/-9~~--
D|--------------------9--------------
A|------------------------------------
E|------------------------------------

cont:
s s
E|------------------------------------
B|------------------------------------
G|----------9/7-------7-/-9~~----
D|-----------------9-----------------
A|------------------------------------
E|------------------------------------


So from here you can at least play some barre chords with the slide. Form your own boxes or positions around these chord tones. Most important, listen. Use notes from the major scale, more chord tones, etc.

What stinks about standard tuning is it's limitations to chord forms. You can apply almost everything that you know about guitar already to playing slide. The trick is when to slide, and when/if to add vibrato, it's essentially still all about phrasing and dynamics.[/QUOTE]

OK I didn't realize you were using standard tuning. I won't be much help there because I suck at standard tuning slide.

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Originally Posted by pbradt

OK I didn't realize you were using standard tuning. I won't be much help there because I suck at standard tuning slide.

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Hey im game for G or D tunings as well.

You can also play a minor 7 chord, E minor:

E|--------------12~~--------------------
B|--------------12~~----------------------
G|--------------12~~--------------------
D|--------------12~~---------------------
A|------------------------------------
E|------------------------------------

It can also be used with the barre chord shape you already posted above:

E|---------------------------------------------------7 / 12~~~
B|-----------------9~~~~-8\7-----------8-\-7----------------
G|---------------9~~~------------7 / 9------------------------
D|----------7 / 9~----------------------------------------------
A|---------------------------------------------------------------
E|---------------------------------------------------------------

*bump*


oh pardon me, i wuz just lurking...struggling with the switch from open D to G. habits are horrible.

i need to learn to slide in "regular" 'stead of high octane.

Annie, to go from open D (or E, same thing) to Open G (or A) all you have to do is move your pattern(s) over one string. You knew that though, right?

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Originally Posted by thebluesbarn

You can also play a minor 7 chord, E minor:

E|--------------12~~--------------------
B|--------------12~~----------------------
G|--------------12~~--------------------
D|--------------12~~---------------------
A|------------------------------------
E|------------------------------------

It can also be used with the barre chord shape you already posted above:

E|---------------------------------------------------7 / 12~~~
B|-----------------9~~~~-8\7-----------8-\-7----------------
G|---------------9~~~------------7 / 9------------------------
D|----------7 / 9~----------------------------------------------
A|---------------------------------------------------------------
E|---------------------------------------------------------------

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cool thanks for your time!

Where would Rev. Billy G. fall in this thread? I just heard Tush on the radio while reading this thread...wierd. Open tuning? Pearly Gates or different guitar? Anyone know?

I'd have to give it a listen Thunder.


Saw Derek Trucks and Warren Haynes get into a slide duel last Sunday. I can tell you that Warren Hayne's chops are as good as one can hope for, but Derek Trucks blew him away.

Derek mixed his own style with eastern sounding micro tones. Simply amazing. He also whipped out a 5 note (also asian?, it sounded like he took our 12 note and divided it up into 5 notes, unlike our 5 note pentatonic scales this was not based on "our" notes) type scale for a couple of measures.

During the rest of the concert, he played "out" a few times. He was playing like T-Monk one minute, Charlie Parker the next. Only a couple of times did he play like Duane, he seemed to leave the old ABB slide stuff to Warren.

This guy is on another planet for sure. I can tell you that his slide playing has influenced mine so much that people have been coming up to me paying some nice compliments about my unique style. I love telling people that my newest slide influence is Derek Trucks....

Thanks Derek!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thunder

Where would Rev. Billy G. fall in this thread? I just heard Tush on the radio while reading this thread...wierd. Open tuning? Pearly Gates or different guitar? Anyone know?

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When it comes to slide, The Rev is only average. He doesn't have much finesse. YMMV

If you play slide, even non-blues slide, listen to Earl Hooker. Brilliant player with amazing phrasing and sense of melody, and a seriously impressive vibrato. He played in standard tuning exclusively, by the way.

He got his style from an older player named Robert Nighthawk (also a great slide player but in an older more archaic 40's/early 50's style, open E tuning) who in turn learned from 20s and 30s slide virtuoso Tampa Red (also an open E tuning guy).

The common thread between all of them is their ability to play extended and vocal-sounding phrases on the higher strings, as opposed to the more rhythmic/chordal style associated with the mississippi delta guys like Charley Patton and Son House which was carried on by electric players like Muddy Waters and Johnny Shines.

Anyway, sorry bout the rambling - do yourself a favor and check out Earl Hooker - his late 60s records are ok, but his best stuff is his early-to-mid 60s instrumentals.

http://www.island.net/~blues/earlhkr.htm
http://afgen.com/earl_hooker.html

I lurk, therefore I am.

Hope Mr. Tonemaster didn't skeeeeeeeedaddle outta here 'cause of me. I'll just go shoot myself if'n he did.