Yep. Zappa also had Barcus Berry pickups installed in some of his guitar necks to make them "speak" faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Offshore Angler
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Yep. Zappa also had Barcus Berry pickups installed in some of his guitar necks to make them "speak" faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Offshore Angler
Not to mention a little known bass guitarist by the name of Jack Bruce guesting on his records.................
People that don't get Frank probably like Madonna.......... :arhhh: :arhhh:
I think that was only one track, Apostrope'.Quote:
Originally Posted by cre2403
Me, I love Jean-Luc doing his solo on 50/50, and Frank picking right up on it. If you're not actively listening, it's like "when did they switch?"
George Duke's solo ain't too shabby either. :laughing:
Want to hear a rare recording of Frank?
Here's another one.
Oddly, coincidently, when I posted the above link, the first article in boingboing was about odd musical instruments. I thought the link would then always take you there. Turns out it will take you to any other topic. Ooooohh. :wah:Quote:
Originally Posted by wellstrung
So here's a link more relevant to the Zappa topic of playing the bicycle:
Oddmusic
doesnt frank have a celestial body of some kind named after him,like a comet or something?not too many of us ever will...
Here 'tisQuote:
Originally Posted by redcoats1976
You mean... ?Quote:
Originally Posted by redcoats1976
http://www.ranchocanyonmusic.com/squ.../moonunit.jpeg
:D
I hold FZ in the highest possible esteem, but I understand how someone could have trouble with much of the man's work. His music is not an easy listen; it's at times quite demanding of the listener. Some folks do not like demanding music. To tell the truth, while FZ is one of my favorite artists I find I enjoy him best in small doses once in a while. Regular listening (for me) takes the edge off the "awe" his music (at it's best) inspires.
Very well put, PK
I haven't really listened to any Zappa since the early 80's and I can truthfully say that I don't miss it one bit. I was never what one would call a big fan of his music although Zappa is clearly a very talented musician I just found that there were way too many moments of sheer non-sense on the albums, which took away from the experience rather than added to it. Although their styles differ greatly I liken listening to a Zappa album in the same category as listening to a Satriani album.............fine in small doses but fatal if consumed in larger amounts................
I QUOTE "What stands out when you listen to him is that in an age of corporate rock and formulized music, he was successful doing what he wanted to do, and playing the music he heard in his head." ------ I see what you are saying, yet i believe that Zappas' music is formulaic also in this respect; when I hear Zappa, much as I may love his skill and artistry,and I do, I hear in Frank Zappa someone who is first and foremost, strictly commercial, that is, strictly from commercial.He (Zappa)just approaches it from a different and more complex angle.So even though Frank Zappa was not "corporate" as you rightly state, he was corporation in of of himself,being that he was a giant in the industry who accepted endorsements, toured,and also produced and recorded so many other acts and styles of music(I think he discovered the ALICE cOOPER BAND' , for example). In being a commercial production, Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention are ,by definition, just as systematic in their own style ,albeit a genre they invented themselves( how fitting -the name of their band) as any other commercial music, no matter how iconoclastic. I think this is partly what the other people that are put off by his music may be in disagreement with,especially in terms of having to be cool enough to like his music and thus be accepted by Zappa fans who may percieve themselves as unconventional "trend buckers" yet who are in actuality conventional consumers of the corporate " anti-corporate" music industry,if you will. This is my Masters Thesis for Zappa Graduate Studies 401. Before you flame me, remember, this is in the form of an academic treatise. It doesnt have to make any sence, it only has to follow the outline of an essay. :laughing:
Yep. Their first two albums, Pretties for You and Easy Action were on Frank's Straight label. He also 'discovered' the GTO's and Wild Man Fisher.Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryjg
I like Pretties for You a lot, less so Easy Action. Neither is for the typical AC fan. PfY is pretty psychedelic.
I just watched the dvd - Baby Snakes - last night. Having seen Frank live twice, I think this video really gives you an idea what stellar musicianship Frank brought to the stage. If you haven't seen it, you owe it to yourself to see some spectacular playing - even if you don't "get" Zappa. True, there's a bunch of silliness and some interesting clay animation mixed in - but if you want to skip to the end and just watch the Halloween concert in NYC - I think you will be awed by Frank's guitar playing and the incredible tightness of the band. Its the best I've ever seen him do. Terry Bozzio on drums is an astounding player. He would have rolled over John Bonham like a steamroller and left him twitching on the ground. Adrian Belew is no slouch as the "second" guitarist either.......all in all a very enjoyable concert experience on the home theatre (turn it up!). You can rent this easily from Netflix - but I'm ordering my own copy immediately.
Yeah, Baby Snakes is a great DVD. I should buy a copy.
Peaches en Regalia and Willie the Pimp
Man must be you.... I remember listening to Hot Rats about a zillion times... and then there was Captain Beefheart... :sun
Abacab. Any day of the week. Even though it's a lesser Genesis album, I'd take it over anything I've ever heard from Frank.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kap'n
Sorry, but that's just my opinion...I just don't "get" Frank, I guess.
Even that that thump thump Chester plays behind that crap bleep bleep solo Tony Banks plays with one hemisphere tied behind his back? :wah:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickenjangle
OK, it sold more records, but Zomby Woof? C'mon, work with me here. :smile:
OK, I'll have to admit, I haven't delved deep into Zappa's catalogue. But I'm a pretty big Genesis fan, and 3 Sides Live and Abacab were the first Genesis albums I had, so they've got a special place in my heart... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Kap'n
"crazed cultural pastiche"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...c/2fa8f5c1.jpg
You da MAN!!!
I don't think there needs to be distinct difference within his pieces, or between his pieces. The vibe is the important thing for me, and Zappa uses continuing themes and resonances throughout his work to maintain and enhance his vibe.
Love the man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wellstrung
One could, if they wanted to:wah: , consider all his music social/cultural commentary.
Just the contrast between what he did and what pretty much every other big time rock band was doing says something about at least the state of rockdom.
I was a big FZ fan in the 70's and 80's but it required work. As I developed as a musician I realized how structurally complicated his work really was. Musical ideas would appear in deconstructions referring back to previous albums. Characters (potato head bobby, carolina hard core ectasy etc) would reappear in different songs. I doubt that players like Fowler, George Duke, JL Ponty, Steve Vai would play with a hack. They probably never got rich playing this stuff and could have played with anyone they choose.
Because this stuff was so complicated it never caught the publics eye other than the scatalogical rock parody stuff. Not implying that you're not complicated or don't have the ability to appreciate it but lots of great players and composers site FZ as a heavy influence. Me? Saw him live 4 times and was blown away each and every time. Last concert I saw he shared lead duties with "my little Italian virtuoso". It was about 81 and no-one had heard of Vai yet. I too heard the story of how Vai transcribed "black pages" (if memory serves) and sent it to FZ. The first step to stardom. I mis the crazy bastard.
Here is a link to his senate testimony: http://www.joesapt.net/superlink/shrg99-529/p51.html
It's cool that Al Gore was a fan and knew who the mothers were. It's also odd that he does little to defend FZ's attack on his own wife.
Quote:
OK, I'll have to admit, I haven't delved deep into Zappa's catalogue. But I'm a pretty big Genesis fan, and 3 Sides Live and Abacab were the first Genesis albums I had, so they've got a special place in my heart...
Seriously, rent Baby Snakes and then come back and tell me you'd take Genesis any day...................
rent? Is there a DVD? OK, I'll try to put my hands on some Zappa. Never let it be said that I'm close-minded. Who knows, maybe I'll like it...How about people give me the top 3 (not necessarily the most accessible, but the top 3 most important) and I'll try to see what you're all talking about. Who knows, maybe I'll learn something...Quote:
Originally Posted by cre2403
But I'll bet I'd still choose Genesis... :D
see my previous review of Baby Snakes in this thread. I believe its the best live performance Zappa ever recorded. We rented from Netflix. Start there, you will get a great intro to Frank's best material and one of the best touring bands he ever put together.
There are other DVD live performances that are good - I would recommend " Does Humor Belong in Music?" if you want more.......
I love Joe's Garage. One of my all-time favorite albums. "Wet T-Shirt Night", "Crew Slut" (it looks just like a Telefunken U-47), "Why Does It Hurt When I Pee?", "Stick It Out", the whole album has you laughing all the way through.
Don't get no jizz upon the sofa, sofa! LMAO
As mentioned, Joe's Garage is pretty accessible, it tells a story, and it contains one of his best instruments, Watermelon in Easter Hay.
I usually forget it, because my copy is on vinyl, and I'm too lazy to play it anymore.
Trivia - Fembot in a Wet T-Shirt is titled on early copies of the album as Toad-O Line. Somebody musta had an issue with that.....
I'll try to rent Baby Snakes, then. Thanks.
:appl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kap'n
It plays over the credits at the end of Y Tu Mama Tambien.
A great thing to hear on a theatre sound system as the place empties out.
:appl:
He would have rolled over John Bonham like a steamroller and left him twitching on the ground.
cre2403- An accurate statement reguarding Terry Bozzio-
Bonham is way overatted,but not as much as Jimmie Page,who is by far no Jeff Beck
Zappa was the musical "shock jock" of his time.
I was heading to San Francisco with my non-approved boyfriend, the day after my high school graduation, when "I'll go to Frisco catch the crabs and take a bus back home..." came on the radio. (radio was different in the old daze, boyz n gurlz). I laughed so hard I slipped off the plastic seats. Loved him ever after.
Then I had to play "Zappa" tunes with a roving group for 5 weeks, ala the musician's union. I had to "read" every night. Far different than the Jimmy Wakelys and others I usually did blindfolded, asleep at the wheel &/or plowed, just so's I could stand to do it: and could easily do it well.
I gots Uncle Meat and a few others in vinyl. Primo condition. Both records. Not for sale.
He wuz the Felix the Cat of music, at the time. What's not to love?
Sure made me laugh a lot.
SUZY????
What's got into ya?
:appl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravity Jim
I think that two centuries ago he would have been regarded as our Mozart.
And as others have stated he did have an ability to find and develop talent, I mean if it were just Steve Vai, or just Mike Keneally, or just Terry Bozzio, or just George Duke, or just.. Then I could see putting it down to happenstance.
That being said I have to admit that arriving at an appreciation of FZ's music took a bit of effort on my part.
I think FZ would have resented any comparision to Mozart. Sure, he was just as prolific, but I think he would have preferred comparision to the bogus pomp of Bach.Quote:
Originally Posted by djinn1973
Is this old thread week, or what?
I was just thinking the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kap'n
I like FZ, but I also think he is wildly overrated. I suppose terms like "genius" have become so debased now to become almost meaningless, but to compare FZ to Mozart... I mean, really.
Sure he was _prolific_, as was Mozart, but put a man on a straight diet of sardines and prune juice for a week, and he will also be _prolific_. It's about quality as well as quantity of what you produce that matters (and that also extends to number of notes you can squeeze into a "black" page.)
-Mark
At least FZ never referred to himself as "the 21st Cetury's NEW Beethoven," in a manner that made him seem as if he had rabies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kap'n
Not that I know of.
You're right. I much prefer Zappa's music to the bulk of Mozart's output.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plugger
Well, that might be true, but it doesn't really speak to the issue of whether the two are comparable figures in the history of music in any serious way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kap'n
As I say, I like FZ. I also like Shakespeare, and I also like Stan Lee.
If a person says "I like Stan Lee's comics better than the bulk of Shakespeare's output", I'm fine with that. But if a person might say "Stan Lee is the Shakespeare of our age", I might have trouble taking that person seriously. At least when it comes to literature.
-Mark
Well, in that context...
Mozart will always be looked at as more important because his music came earlier, unprecendented. You can't discount the "older = better" train of thought in the orchestral music world.
However, his overbearing melodicism makes me feel that Kenny G or Paul McCartney is the Mozart of the 20th century.
The "overbearing melodicism" to which you refer is an understandable interpretation from a 21st century listener's perspective. Not the only one, of course, but quite understandable given the 21st century ear is not the 18th century ear. We've all heard Mozart, and a lot more besides. About nine hundred years ago, _plainsong_ was the state of the art in western music harmonization. From plainsong to FZ in 900 years shows an astounding rate of development of the concept even of what music can be, I think.
The thing about Mozart is that they had to invent the Romantic movement after he came along. He more or less perfected the classical form as it was understood up to that point, and didn't leave a lot for anyone else to do, unless it was more of the same, just not nearly so well. So what happens? Subsequent composers had to change the rules of the game just to stay in the game. Well, that's my take, anyway.
Guys like Zappa are important cultural figures of their generation. Guys like Mozart are important cultural figures of western civilization. Different order of magnitude. Different scale of impact.
-Mark
From that perspective, DaVinci was the only true inventor, and folks like Edison, Franklin, Lavoisier, Preistley, Armstrong and Einstein were just blips on the map.
And there weren't any real artists after the invention of photography either.