WWJD?

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Originally Posted by Franklin

The only good bands I have seen are at non-denominational type services which seemed more like a backdrop for televangelist type preachers. Once there was a place here in CT where the music and choir was really good, lot’s of feeling. Turns out the guitarist was just a hired gun though, he wasn’t part of the church, or even a practicing Christian. Let me know, I would like to go to a church with a good band playing.

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I go to First Christian Church in Tarpon Springs, FL. As you said, it is a large non-denominational church but I wouldn't say that our preacher is like a televangelist. You can visit the church web site at: Click Here

We had talked about the idea of paying some of the band, etc. but turned it down for just the reasons you are getting at - we want the people leading the worship to have their hearts in the right place and NOT just a "hired gun". Our music minister makes it very clear that in our roles we are to be an example to others. Of course, every church has some paid positions: Minister, Music Minister, etc. but the majority of people on stage during a service are actually church member volunteers. They do pay the sound and lighting guys a little bit because of the long hours they put in (but what they pay isn't really that much considering the amount of work these guys do... they end up volunteering a lot of time on top of it).

Our church has about 1200-1300 members and our current sanctuary seats approx. 850. We run 3 services each Sunday: 1 traditional early service (we have a very nice pipe organ) but the 2nd and 3rd services are pretty rocking! We're in the process of building a larger facility as we've outgrown this one and with the way FL and this area are growing population wise, we are expecting big things in the years to come. Good luck in finding a church home where you fit in.

I thought he banned all forms of art and non religous expression and that one of his decendants brought it back, maybe I have that backwards. Yeah, there is some wild Islamic art and music, I especially like the Farsi (sp?) music and the farther east blending of Arabian and Eastern music! Just the music though, can't stand most of the vocals!

This thread works a lot better when it's about the pedalboard.

Get me? :)

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Originally Posted by Franklin

can't stand most of the vocals!

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Just imagine how they feel about Plant's warbling on Kashmir. :lol

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Originally Posted by Kap'n

Just imagine how they feel about Plant's warbling on Kashmir. :lol

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:rofl

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Originally Posted by pc

This thread works a lot better when it's about the pedalboard.

Get me? :)

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Seems to me that this has been a remarkably civil conversation.

As for the :ahem pedalboard, there was a time when I'd have been all over that like a cheap suit, but anymore I prefer simplicity. I'm too clumsy to do a tapdance and too forgetful to remember pedal combinations when I'm trying my best to remember the words to the songs :D

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Originally Posted by Rickenjangle

Seems to me that this has been a remarkably civil conversation.

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Yup, I completely agree. And you made my point by using the word "remarkably." That implies it could too easily go the other way. I just really hate seeing fun threads get killed by a missed step. :yay

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Originally Posted by Kap'n

Just imagine how they feel about Plant's warbling on Kashmir. :lol

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The P Diddy (or was it Puffy or Diddy then?) remix might put it all in perspective for even the most orthodox.:D

I seriously want to know what religions use bands?

I hope that I wasn't being offensive by mentioning how most religous music is un-exciting! I was just wondering what faiths have full bands like the ones I hear so much about -especially at the other forum where the pic was posted, that thread is long! There are so many people who are involved playing devotional music at church. Maybe it's because I live in New England that I don't see much outside traditional services!

I don't see anything wrong with all those effects. I don't use anything except delay, for added fullness, and of course trip factor. :)

But of course, to each his own. I would imagine someone who uses that many pedals probably owns or has owned three times as many, and found these particular ones as being useful to them. Once you get hooked on the sounds, you hear a need for them in places where others wouldn't. Different sounds inspire you to take different musical avenues. Maybe I need some new pedals.

That being said, I can't see a half-hour worship service that mainly focuses on the words anyway ever needing that kind of variety in just the guitar zone. But hey, whatever floats your boat, as long as it doesn't get in the way of the message.

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Originally Posted by Franklin

I hope that I wasn't being offensive by mentioning how most religous music is un-exciting!

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For being a non-religious kind of person, I really like as a whole music from the Catholic tradition. Modal chants, magestic organ music. Music made for big halls with lots of reverb. Truely awe inspiring.

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Originally Posted by Franklin

I seriously want to know what religions use bands?

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Well there's the whole sacred steel thing that's getting lots of press these days with Robert Randoph, etc.

I think a lot of it comes from the Southern churches, Baptists, etc. Make a joyous noise unto the lord. Lots of soul singers come from that tradition - Sam Cooke, Aretha Franklin....

Ritchie Furay from Buffalo Springfield, Poco, etc. has been doing almost nothing but Christian music for a number of years. He has the same sound (Country Rock) that he did with his older solo stuff, but it has a religious theme. It's really good stuff.

Oh I know Christian music is big, I was wondering specifically what types of services use full bands.

I don't want to push any buttons or alienate anyone, so I'll drop it now.

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Originally Posted by Franklin

Oh I know Christian music is big, I was wondering specifically what types of services use full bands. I don't want to push any buttons or alienate anyone, so I'll drop it now.

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I hope the info I gave you helps in your search. I don't think you alienated anybody. As previously stated, this thread has had a very civilized tone about it, which is a nice change from some of the things that turn into flame wars. Good luck in your search for a church home using full bands, etc. God Bless...

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Originally Posted by gibsonjunkie

Ritchie Furay from Buffalo Springfield, Poco, etc. has been doing almost nothing but Christian music for a number of years. He has the same sound (Country Rock) that he did with his older solo stuff, but it has a religious theme. It's really good stuff.

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Several former rockers, etc. are doing Christian music now. Mark Farnier from Grand Funk Railroad, Rick Derringer, Greg Martin for Kentucky Headhunters, some of the guys from Kansas, Larry Howard from Grinderswitch - '70's southern rockers for you youngin's ;)
And of course there's a ton of country people. Heck, even Donnie and Johnny VanZant (.38 Special and Skynyrd) are getting more religous (listen to their "Get Right With The Man" new VanZant country album, which is doing well on the charts). Skynyrd's Billy Powell was in a Christian group until Skynyrd reformed in '87. That's a pretty "rockin" crowd of players!

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Originally Posted by NeoFauve

All this co-opting and watering down of good heathen culture.
Is nothing sacred?:(

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:lol


:dude

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Originally Posted by RedRoom

WWJD??? I think Jesus would distance himself from the hack praise band nerds.

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Hey I resemble that remark!!! (Just kidding no offense taken)

For church I have two setups depending on how I feel that week (or more importantly what we're playing). A shallow backed Ovation acoustic Electric right into the PA is the one I use the most.

My second rig is a small solid state marshall amp (I think its an MG15, but I'm not sure of the model # it's at church most of the time) I take a direct box from the line out of the amp to the PA and just use the amp as a monitor mainly. The Guitar I use with this most often is an Oscar Schmidt $150 335 copy that I bought from Musician's Friend, which I also leave at church most of the time. After a little setup work I'm sort of suprised that this cheap guitar actually plays and sounds halfway decent.

We're a Lutheran congregation we still have our traditional service with the organ, and choir. But we have also had a second service with a full praise band (Keyboard, bass, drums, and 1 or 2 guitars, depending on whose available) for about the last 10 years also.

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Originally Posted by Franklin

I seriously want to know what religions use bands?

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Many churches hold a Saturday evening contemporary service. Sine go a little overboard. In my case, the "Band" is mostly acoustic with one guy who plays a tele (the only professional.) The church is Methodist. The only problem I have ever experienced is with attitude laden singers. (The ones who don't read music and get perturbed when we all miss the random key changes...I never knew this, but apparently Sopranos are never sing off key)

Also in town here there is a weekly jam (Bluegrass/sountry/gospel) at a local Babtist church. Non-denominational and an absolute riot...there is an 80 year old in there with an ancient Martin who can really kick some tail. A few mandolin players, a stand-up bass, and NO attitude. The evening starts and ends with prayer.

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Originally Posted by Franklin

What denominations of religion actually have fun music that can also be considered the message (not just entertainment), certainly not Roman Catholics. It is way too rigid to me, they only started having masses in languages other than Latin only 50 years ago!! =Let me know, I would like to go to a church with a good band playing.

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My wife and I just started going to a Catholic church that can have great music at times. When it's good, it tends to be groovy, kind of sixties-ized hymns. There are rules for what they can play during the mass, of course, but they get some leeway as to how they can interpret the tunes. The lineup varies, but usually has an electric guitar and a (very groovy) jazzy drummer. This particular parish is one of the ones that is 'in vigil' (ie occupied by parishoners) because it got closed by the archdiocese. [Fodder for another thread, I suppose]. I might have to volunteer to play.

Some Catholic churches have similar music; usually the ones near colleges get a bit hip.

We flirted with Unitarianism for a couple years; surprisingly, the music was f'in lame lame lame. Unexpected considering how open UU is. :)

I hope this doesn't get locked before I get home to phtot chop that pedalboard.

:spin

You won't find any scripture to support musical instruments in worship service to God. We are to worship in spirit & truth not entertainment. I never realized that worship was supposed to be entertaining..that's an American ideaology.

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Originally Posted by Kap'n

For being a non-religious kind of person, I really like as a whole music from the Catholic tradition. Modal chants, magestic organ music. Music made for big halls with lots of reverb. Truely awe inspiring.

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dude, i grew up catholic. midnight mass is my favorite. so awesome!

As far as I've read nobody has equated worship w/entertainment. And I'm pretty sure musical instruments were used in church services before America existed as a nation. In fact, I think you'll find them mentioned quite a bit in the Old Testament.

7181854321 nails it.:http://images.google.com/images?q=tb...mages/HKNA.jpg

That's right; I'm no lyre:lol

You're a kinnor kind of guy.:yay

You're not going to harp on this now are you?

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Originally Posted by tuberattler

You won't find any scripture to support musical instruments in worship service to God. We are to worship in spirit & truth not entertainment. I never realized that worship was supposed to be entertaining..that's an American ideaology.

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1 Chonricles15:16
16 David told the leaders of the Levites to appoint their brothers as singers to sing joyful songs, accompanied by musical instruments: lyres, harps and cymbals.

1 Chronicles 16:42
42 Heman and Jeduthun were responsible for the sounding of the trumpets and cymbals and for the playing of the other instruments for sacred song. The sons of Jeduthun were stationed at the gate.

1 Chronicles 23:5
"Four thousand are to be gatekeepers and four thousand are to praise the LORD with the musical instruments I have provided for that purpose."

2 Chronicles 5:13
13 The trumpeters and singers joined in unison, as with one voice, to give praise and thanks to the LORD. Accompanied by trumpets, cymbals and other instruments, they raised their voices in praise to the LORD and sang:
"He is good;
his love endures forever."
Then the temple of the LORD was filled with a cloud,

2 Chronicles 7:6
6 The priests took their positions, as did the Levites with the LORD's musical instruments, which King David had made for praising the LORD and which were used when he gave thanks, saying, "His love endures forever." Opposite the Levites, the priests blew their trumpets, and all the Israelites were standing.

2 Chronicles 30:21
21 The Israelites who were present in Jerusalem celebrated the Feast of Unleavened Bread for seven days with great rejoicing, while the Levites and priests sang to the LORD every day, accompanied by the LORD's instruments of praise

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Originally Posted by RedRoom

1 Chonricles15:16
16 David told the leaders of the Levites to appoint their brothers as singers to sing joyful songs, accompanied by musical instruments: lyres, harps and cymbals.

1 Chronicles 16:42
42 Heman and Jeduthun were responsible for the sounding of the trumpets and cymbals and for the playing of the other instruments for sacred song. The sons of Jeduthun were stationed at the gate.

1 Chronicles 23:5
"Four thousand are to be gatekeepers and four thousand are to praise the LORD with the musical instruments I have provided for that purpose."

2 Chronicles 5:13
13 The trumpeters and singers joined in unison, as with one voice, to give praise and thanks to the LORD. Accompanied by trumpets, cymbals and other instruments, they raised their voices in praise to the LORD and sang:
"He is good;
his love endures forever."
Then the temple of the LORD was filled with a cloud,

2 Chronicles 7:6
6 The priests took their positions, as did the Levites with the LORD's musical instruments, which King David had made for praising the LORD and which were used when he gave thanks, saying, "His love endures forever." Opposite the Levites, the priests blew their trumpets, and all the Israelites were standing.

2 Chronicles 30:21
21 The Israelites who were present in Jerusalem celebrated the Feast of Unleavened Bread for seven days with great rejoicing, while the Levites and priests sang to the LORD every day, accompanied by the LORD's instruments of praise

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Hallelujah!

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Originally Posted by 71818

You're not going to harp on this now are you?

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I'm just trying to figure out what pedal board goes best with my kinnor.:D

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Originally Posted by 71818

You're not going to harp on this now are you?

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Naaahhhhhhh...I don't think anyone is "fretting" it.

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Originally Posted by RedRoom

."
Then the temple of the LORD was filled with a cloud,

2

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So not only music, but dry ice!

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Originally Posted by refin

Naaahhhhhhh...I don't think anyone is "fretting" it.

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Just so long as we're not stringing anybody along :slap

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Originally Posted by tuberattler

You won't find any scripture to support musical instruments in worship service to God. We are to worship in spirit & truth not entertainment. I never realized that worship was supposed to be entertaining..that's an American ideaology.

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I hate to disagree but there are several scripture references regarding praising God with the harp and Lyre. I know there are at least a couple of psalms that refer to that. I can look up exact verses later when I have more time if you e-mail me for them off list. Although I do agree with you that the motive should be to praise God and not to entertain.

OOPS, I shouldn't respond until I've read the entire thread someone already listed the verses. Great saves me the time of having to look them up.

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Originally Posted by Falstaff

So not only music, but dry ice!

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How cool is that? And here I thought that it was the Who that originated the dry ice bit...

Those are Old Testament references. There are no references to instruments being used in the New Testament, particularly in the Epistles, which are the books generally considered to be instructive to the church.
I don't believe the silence is an indication that the use of instruments is forbidden in church. There's no mention of electricity in the N.T. either. A lot of people would be sitting in the dark if we took that as a prohibition.

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Originally Posted by RedRoom

How cool is that? And here I thought that it was the Who that originated the dry ice bit...

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Wanna see one of God's light shows?
http://www.mso.anu.edu.au/albums/widemisc/M31.sized.jpg
LOL

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Originally Posted by 71818

...I don't believe the silence is an indication that the use of instruments is forbidden in church. There's no mention of electricity in the N.T. either. A lot of people would be sitting in the dark if we took that as a prohibition.

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Good point (and thanks to those of you who took the time to cite specific references regarding instruments). Our church believes that God has given different generations different tools and means to reach people. If the motive behind using the technology (be it musical instruments, dry ice effects, electric lights or whatever) is for the right reasons then I think God can be honored in many different ways. Our church is using a dry ice type effect and some cool lighting effects during our current sermon series - these help enhance the message the minister is trying to convey. In past Christmas musicals we've included several theatre effects, rigging, etc. (even had Jesus accend during the passion play). We have also gotten into doing a lot more with video - giving testimonies, even playing a secular movie clip in part of a sermon if it can reinforce a particular point. Let's face it, if you want to reach today's "MTV" generations then (to paraphrase a recent car commercial) you can't always do it with you Daddy's (traditional) church service. It's about connecting people to Christ and not about what technology, etc. you're using.

We attend a Calvary Chapel in Kent, WA. I guess it's of about average size & has two services on Sunday, & one on Saturday night.
Some months back we visited a church in Edmonds, WA, a bit north. A friend of ours was in town & the guest speaker for the Sunday morning service. That place blew me away. The worship team looked about as big as our congregation, LOL!!!
They had:
A band (of course)
*bass
*drums
*grand piano
*Hammond organ
*electric guitar
Then they had:
*a string section
*a brass section
Then there was the choir! Two huge tiers of men & women, divided up by ranges. The whole effect was stunning.
Not my style, but all top drawer musicians & for free!:lol
The guitar player was playing a AmStd Strat into a POD Pro, one of those rack-mount Marshalls w/the glass window in front, & a bunch of other stuff. He was wearing a suit & tie & was stitting down kind of in a corner. In fact, all the "band" instruments (bass, drums, gtr, & keys) were in a tight group. Nobody out front, & I seem to remember that some were wearing headphones. They jammed HARD.