Hand Claps, Pink Noise, Analyzers and Steely Dan

I've been getting a real education watching sound engineers go to work at venues.

They always walk into a venue and first thing they do is clap their hands. I asked why and found out they're listening for how "long" the space is. In other words they are listening for how long the natural reverb is and what the predominant direction is. This is how they dial in the reverb for the venue.


Then sometimes you hear a hissing/water noise being played through the sound system. Again I ask - this is "pink noise" and with it playing they run around the venue using analyzer mics to find out what frequencies to boost or drop depending on the acoustics of the venue, the weather, etc.

Then before sound check they pump Steely Dan's Aja through the system and listen. Why? I was told that recording is so alive and near prefect that it is what the trained ears use for a final check. Especially the drum track. If you have all the ranges covered and can hear the stick click mistake in Gadd's first drum solo clearly then the sound is dialed.

I'm in awe of how great sound people who really know what they're doing can make a band sound. Me, being the mischievous lead player (aside: I was told last weekend the difference between a lead guitar player and a terrorist is that you can negotiate with a terrorist) I am I showed up at an outdoor venue with a Pro Jr. Had my rig in truck but just decided to see what sound would say. I presented the little amp and said I wanted to use it for the show. Fully expecting to get a reaction all that happened was sound said "Okay" proceeded to put the mics on it and fed it into my monitor. Guess what? They made it sound great and actually told me how much they loved the sound. Go figure.

The other thing that amazed me is how they get the band to sound consistently good in all types of venues. Whether blasting outdoors or at a smallish club it aways sounds pretty much the same.

And great sound, man-o-man, does it ever open your playing up! You don't have to fight for space and you can let the notes bloom and finesse them. It has taken my enjoyment of performing to a new level. I've come the conclusion that while pro sound is expensive, it's worth every penny.

Chuck

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Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

the difference between a lead guitar player and a terrorist is that you can negotiate with a terrorist

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LMFAO

:biglaugh:

And a very concise assessment regarding the value of quality audio engineers.

Watching them mic a kick is amazing. They shoot one mic into the port, and if they need more attack they angle it towards the beater, if it's too much attack they angle to the rim. But when the kick is right and coming through the subs the groove is instinctual and effortless.

That's crazy! For years, the first thing I've always done upon entering a room is clap my hands. LOL.

I have always controlled my own volume/dynamics and for the past 25 years haven't played any amp bigger than my 1 x 12 Rivera Chubster. 40 watts of pure sonic bliss to my ears!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

I've been getting a real education watching sound engineers go to work at venues.

They always walk into a venue and first thing they do is clap their hands. I asked why and found out they're listening for how "long" the space is. In other words they are listening for how long the natural reverb is and what the predominant direction is. This is how they dial in the reverb for the venue.


Then sometimes you hear a hissing/water noise being played through the sound system. Again I ask - this is "pink noise" and with it playing they run around the venue using analyzer mics to find out what frequencies to boost or drop depending on the acoustics of the venue, the weather, etc.

Then before sound check they pump Steely Dan's Aja through the system and listen. Why? I was told that recording is so alive and near prefect that it is what the trained ears use for a final check. Especially the drum track. If you have all the ranges covered and can hear the stick click mistake in Gadd's first drum solo clearly then the sound is dialed.

I'm in awe of how great sound people who really know what they're doing can make a band sound. Me, being the mischievous lead player (aside: I was told last weekend the difference between a lead guitar player and a terrorist is that you can negotiate with a terrorist) I am I showed up at an outdoor venue with a Pro Jr. Had my rig in truck but just decided to see what sound would say. I presented the little amp and said I wanted to use it for the show. Fully expecting to get a reaction all that happened was sound said "Okay" proceeded to put the mics on it and fed it into my monitor. Guess what? They made it sound great and actually told me how much they loved the sound. Go figure.

The other thing that amazed me is how they get the band to sound consistently good in all types of venues. Whether blasting outdoors or at a smallish club it aways sounds pretty much the same.

And great sound, man-o-man, does it ever open your playing up! You don't have to fight for space and you can let the notes bloom and finesse them. It has taken my enjoyment of performing to a new level. I've come the conclusion that while pro sound is expensive, it's worth every penny.

Chuck

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this should be a stickyed and required reading.

I have heard that in concerts with "big" opening acts that the sound is often dialed "Down" for the opening acts to make the headliners sound even better.

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Originally Posted by gibsonjunkie

I have heard that in concerts with "big" opening acts that the sound is often dialed "Down" for the opening acts to make the headliners sound even better.

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I remember seeing Jimmy Vaughn open for Clapton during the “From the Cradle” tour and that was just about exactly what happened. I felt that the mix on Jimmy’s set was sort of amateurish with a typical bar mix. When Clapton took the stage it was like listening to the studio mix for the album.

Back when I hauled around a tri-amped PA with multiple power amps for each cabinet I tried using my Rane stereo EQ with built-in pink noise generator to tune the PA to a room I played every weekend for four months each year as the house band. In all honesty, the PA sounded dead and lifeless when it was tuned to the room so I just went back to setting things so the band sounded good to my ear. We were always complimented on the sound of our group.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gibsonjunkie

I have heard that in concerts with "big" opening acts that the sound is often dialed "Down" for the opening acts to make the headliners sound even better.

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While I?ve heard this happen, I figured it was because the FOH was dialed in for the headliner. Openers are playing different gear.

if that stuff actually happens, I am pissed, and I was the headliner refuse to use that crew again. I want the openers to sound as good as they can. Hell I use to be the opener. And karmas a bitch.

I've not had personal experience with this, as I've never been a headliner or an opening act. But I tend to go with the idea that the sound mix is optimized for the headliner based on the equipment and not on a deceptive strategy.

A few years ago, I went to see Iron Butterfly in a small local venue. I don't remember the name of the opening act, but they were so loud that I nearly left my seat to escape the barrage of sound. Iron Butterfly isn't a quiet group, by any stretch, but in this case, the opening act "outplayed" them.

I would be sad, disappointed and angry if the sound crew intentionally worked to reduce the opening act's performance. If I were aware of this, I'd complain to the venue's management; on more than one occasion I've enjoyed the opening act better than the headliner.

I've never had the sound degraded when opening for a headliner. Usually the folks in the booth are all over it and used us to tweak it in. What does happen though is that the lighting is reduced greatly and you know how it is - most people listen with their eyes. We'd generally get a flooded stage whereas the headliner gets a dark stage with pro lighting.

Chuck