Boutiqe PAF copies

I have a great deal of purchasing experience, in 21 years you hear and see it all. Smoke & mirrors, outlandish claims, unrealistic explanations, etc
As far as music equipment goes, I have been buying and selling for 12 years, repairing for 9 years. There is even more misinformation out there. IMHO -If you have not tried several examples of manufactures A, B, and C - I don't think you are qualified to say which is better or superior and why- other than just an opinion.

I approached this as objectively as I could along with a healthy dose of skepticism.

I met the guy who runs Thro-Bak, he winds pickups. They start at expensive and go up from there. Why on earth would someone pay that much for pickups? it's wire, magnets, and spacers.. They are all made pretty much similar / the same

To make a short story long, I found out he is one knowledgeable guy.
I got / bought a set of his PAF copies and installed them today

I can A/B as I have the LP studio with the same pickups (496/500's) in it - the clarity, balance, and response is so different! I can't work up a cost justification for this but there is a very noticeable improvement. I expected them to be better but not this nice..

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Originally Posted by rudutch

...I approached this as objectively as I could along with a healthy dose of skepticism... Why on earth would someone pay that much for pickups? it's wire, magnets, and spacers.. They are all made pretty much similar / the same...

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there in lies your answer. yes pickups really are just a few components, but so is an amp, and so are guitars. every piece can be crucial to the final outcome. i think more so in pickups and transformers. we're talking type of wax, time of submersion, there are a lot of factors that go into it.

at a certain point though money needs to be ruled out of the equation. sure the material cost between the throbaks and say a duncan aren't very much. and many people would say it's over priced. but to me the real verdict is if it performs or not. it's real tough when buying stuff of the internet, there are a lot of sheisters out there.

but it has been my experience that you get what you pay for. a good job is never cheap, and a cheap job is never good. you have to pay someone for their expertise.

Some people who manufacture products to chase "that sound" investing a lot of time and money before they sell a single unit. Much of the high price we pay goes into paying off debt or replacing money that was invested out of their own pocket. Then some folks re-invest in more materials and time to grow or improve their products.

Then again, some folks just want to price gouge too.

He has done his research, homework, and spent the bucks.
The winders are from Heritage (guitars) Kalamazoo, Mi and are the very machines Gibson used. That is not that significant in and of itself,
I can only figure he spend the time and effort to reverse engineer a real PAF and then replicate every /all the details, materials, and methods.

I met him a few months back, he bought an amp from me and we got off on the topic of pickups. He told me what he did and it sounded interesting - but lots of people make pickups and the ones I have tried were (I felt) over priced for what you get with marginal changes.

He is an interesting guy, I got to see his shop and we talked tech for a good 1/2 hour. I had some expectations of what his product would sound like but they were exceeded. That does not happen very often.
They are not cheap -but exceptional stuff seldom is.

Is he in GR? Thanks for the review..

Yes, real close to 6th dam. If you can make it thursday, you can do an A/B and form your own opinion

I'm gonna be there.. :band

I'm interested in Thro-Bak pickups but can't afford them. I've got a second hand set of Duncan Seth Lovers in my LP and they're more than getting the job done, for now, anyway. My total investment was $110 for the pair of a bridge p/u in a factory sealed box and a slightly used neck p/u.

Maybe one day...

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Originally Posted by Don

I'm interested in Thro-Bak pickups but can't afford them. I've got a second hand set of Duncan Seth Lovers in my LP and they're more than getting the job done, for now, anyway. My total investment was $110 for a bridge p/u in a factory sealed box and a slightly used neck p/u.

Maybe one day...

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Must be crazy expensive- Guy got a web page? Never heard of them.

www.throbak.com

http://gundrymedia.typepad.com/throb...k-vintage.html

$349.00-$449.00 a pair. :wow

Seymour Duncan Antiquity Humbucker Pickups are $115-$150/ea
depending on where you buy them.
Burstbuckers (Gibsons) are $130/ea

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Originally Posted by rudutch

Seymour Duncan Antiquity Humbucker Pickups are $115-$150/ea
depending on where you buy them.
Burstbuckers (Gibsons) are $130/ea

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I hear ya at lease you got a chance to demo them before hand if they sound good then they are worth every penny.

Any chance of getting some soundclips done? i'm interested to hear what these Throbaks sound like.

They guy's getting some flak over his pickups because of the claims of his Leesona winder. Some are saying he's overstating the importance of the Leesona and what not.

Nevermind that. How do the pups sound? Clear? They should be, for that price, at least.

My fav PAF clones are from Skatterbrane. I have tried the Wolfetone Marshalheads, WCR Crossroads, Bareknuckle Nailbombs (not PAF, I know, but nevertheless, outstanding) and the Tom Holmes Japan pickups. In terms of quality and tone, I'd say they are all different, yet all the same high level of standard. There are reasons why these boutiques are what they are. Not it's not all hype, though not all are as good as they claim in some other cases. So far, those I've tried have been great experiences, some not so.

For example, I ordered a set of pickups from Will Boggs from WB Pickups, since everyone at MLP forum was raving about him. I ordered them in Jan 2009. I still haven't gotten my pickups. Nor have many others, apparently.

In terms of response, tone and clarity, my favourites are the Skatterbranes so far.

www.skatterbrane.com

Here's the clips I did with some of the pickups.
http://www.thefenderforum.com/forum/...ad.php?t=44512

sorry, I lack that ability. He has some clips posted on his page if that helps.

I can compare them to

'57 classics - currently have
490's - had
500t's - currently have
burstbucker 3's -had

they are better to a ton better (depending on which ones)
This is, of course, all subjective but I did have my 18 year old listed to an A/B and he noticed a pleasing difference in clarity and sound with the throbaks

these are lower output, that accounts for some of the difference. If you need more info, I suggest contacting him of going to the LPF. There is more info from 'cork sniffers' over there. The like to agonize over any and every detail

Components are components and a sum of all pieces make the sound.

I always thought it was crap also (this pickup voodoo shit) until I got some really nice Fralins in one guitar that had had standard pickups in it - the difference was night and day.

Now I had other guitars with nice stuff in them but I had got them that way.

This made me appreciate it all the more and I am glad you have had that eye-opening experience.

Now pickups are one thing. Then its amps. And Bridges. And Wood. And Necks...

And with all of this I just think, jesus, Leo Fender got all of this stuff right at one point or the other.

Just goes to show......

I got to demo these pups last night and I was impressed! Very clear articulate sound almost Tele like in the bridge and neck slot but has a bit of strat sound in the mid position with both pups on-that lester he put them in wow! very sweet playing\looking giutar and I'm not a fan of red guitars.. If your looking for a PAF clone this dude nails that sound.. I enjoyed the jam thanks!

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Originally Posted by rudutch

these are lower output, that accounts for some of the difference. If you need more info, I suggest contacting him of going to the LPF. There is more info from 'cork sniffers' over there. The like to agonize over any and every detail

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yeah... i know what it's like there. over at MLP, it's likewise. I know about the Throbaks. Just thought you might have some of your own clips to show.

David at Zhangliqun wound me some really nice PAFs.........here are 2 demos.I'm using a Woodbucker in the neck and a Slugbucker in the bridge.
Dirty----
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...songID=7340638

Solo,through a SF Champ---

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...songID=7342360

I find them to be balanced clear or driven,and I love the middle position.

Lately I've really been digging a pair of Motor City Pickups' 2nd Degree Black Belts (which is their "slightly overwound" PAF model). Though I'm usually a fan of alnico 2 in PAF types these have alnico 5 and sound very good in my Hamer Studio. Much richer with more mids and push than the Duncan Seths that they replaced. Very clear sounding pups.


Throbaks and Zhangbuckers are still on the list though.

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Originally Posted by hudpucker

Lately I've really been digging a pair of Motor City Pickups' 2nd Degree Black Belts (which is their "slightly overwound" PAF model). Though I'm usually a fan of alnico 2 in PAF types these have alnico 5 and sound very good in my Hamer Studio. Much richer with more mids and push than the Duncan Seths that they replaced. Very clear sounding pups.


Throbaks and Zhangbuckers are still on the list though.

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I'll do my best to bring it to the jam is e few weeks

Since my post in this thread I have experimented with magnets in my Duncan Seth Lovers. I've tried A5 and A4 magnets (in addition to the original A2 magnets).

I prefer the original A2 magnet in the bridge pickup and really like the A4 magnet in the neck pickup! It made the pickup clearer, aa bit brighter with more mids. The guitar sounds more "alive". I didn't like the A4 magnet in the bridge pickup at all. It had too much "push" for my taste.

I've gotta say that I really love the Antiquities in my R7. I pulled the covers from both, put the double white in the bridge and the double black in the neck. Old GE caps, 0.022µF neck and 0.015µF bridge. It's a damn fine sounding guitar.

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Originally Posted by rudutch

I'll do my best to bring it to the jam is e few weeks

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Excellent. I've a feeling I'll be paying close attention to pickups at this jam.


....and don't get me wrong, guys....Duncan Seths are good pickups (one of the best 'non-boutique' offerings, IMO) but just didn't work in this particular guitar of mine.

Don't want it to seem as if I'm denigrating them or their users.

I'd like to post you those boutique PAF clones from Italy..
http://www.i-spira.com/seriestorica.htm
in this page are shown all vintage pick ups (single coils too), if someone need a translation or help to navigate the site just tell me :)

When I sold stereos back in the dark ages(before CDs) I used to tell customers there were only two parts of a stereo that "moved". The stylus (cartridge) and the speaker. To me, they were the two most critical components in a quality sound system. Now in a guitar there is more complexity - the wood, strings, setup, amp, etc... but I would argue the same point on a lesser scale for pickups...

well, I think is actually called electric guitar because the sound comes from electric circuit and pups.. but it is pretty OT

Here's one to look at.

http://www.sdpickups.com/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by refin

David at Zhangliqun wound me some really nice PAFs.........here are 2 demos.I'm using a Woodbucker in the neck and a Slugbucker in the bridge.
Dirty----
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...songID=7340638

Solo,through a SF Champ---

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...songID=7342360

I find them to be balanced clear or driven,and I love the middle position.

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Installed Zhangbuckers in my PRS SE Korina - a Duanebucker with an A4 magnet in the bridge and a Pagey 2 in the neck. Voicing is really nice, and individual notes come through in distorted chords.

Got together with a jam with some friends last night, and that where they really shone. The clarity was really nice in a band mix. You still got some good jangle on lightly distorted stuff, and big fat, clear sounds for solos.

They're winners.

I was inspired enough by the new sounds that I ordered some TV Jones Classics for my Gretch today.

I'm sure they're lovely and all that, but there are certain claims being made that are not internally consistent. I'd change my naming convention if I were him for a start.

I don't know anything about the names, nor do I really care. I do know they sound good.

I'm sure they sound smashing, but if the old ones were 'authentic', I'm not sure how the new ones can be more authentic.... Anyhoo if you had a PAF loaded guitfiddle you didn't want to take on the road anymore it would seem to be an ideal opporchancity to get the pickups replicated for a 'clone'

Is there any particular reason to feel contrarian?

They're really nice pickups, handmade by a guy in his house for around the same price as you'd pay for mass market stuff. He'll wind to the specs you want and he's not claiming any voodoo snake oil, mythical winding machines, magic wire, mojo magnets, or moon phase alignment with linear crystal wire.

What's the beef?

No particular beef, it's just there's an awful lot of information to be taken in on one page. Might be better presented in a different way. Certainly when you look at how much is charged for exact replicas of famous guitars these pickups are positively bargains. I'd always have the nagging doubt that I wanted one of the other winding options... But then, that would be an excuse to buy more shiny things, which is rarely a bad thing...