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I am in the process of making a strat and I am trying to find someone who can make a rosewood veneer neck to the specs I want. Since Warmoth and USA Custom Guitars don't offer this feature, I'm wondering if anyone else does. I have heard about the one guy shops that can make these, however, I don't know any of them and I'm hoping some of you do.
Thanks
Michael
I'm not sure what you mean by "veneer". Can you explain a little more?
?huh?
might be cheaper to just get an all-rw neck
is there magic in the *veneer*?
No, the magic's in the glue that holds the veneer on.
I've heard just plain old Elmers gives the best tone. The Elmer's Carpenter glue just dosen't age right.
If Warmoth and USA don't make it, you don't want it. Seriously, I know Warmoth makes some solid rosewood necks, but they are spendy (they've got some in the Showcase right now going between $250 and $650)... are you hoping to have a maple neck veneered to reduce the cost? Or are you talking about just veneering the face of the peghead? (I can't imagine why they wouldn't do that...)
What I mean by veneer is that the rosewood fret board curves with the same radius as the curvature of the playing surface. The maple beneath the rosewood also curves at this radius so the rosewood surface is the same thickness all the way across the neck. If you look at the end of a 63 strat neck where the date is stamped you can see this.
The other kind is the slab board neck that was used before the veneer necks. These have a flat piece of rosewood glued to a flat piece of maple and then the rosewood is carved into the curved playing surface but the maple does not curve with the radius. If you look at the date code stamped location on a 61 slab board neck you can see the difference.
The sound of a veneer neck tends to be somewhere in between a one-piece maple and a slab. Lively like a maple neck but with a little more warmth. To make one of these you need the right tools and know how as they are much more difficult to make than a slab board neck. That is why Warmoth and USA don’t offer them.
Thanks
Michael
Wow! What a bunch of :da es. And to think, I come here to talk to these :daes about Fender guitars everyday!:bonk
I had a '66 Mustang with a rosewood veneer fretboard. It was pretty cool. Scott Lentz makes them for the guitars he builds but I doubt he sells them separately.
Well, duh.
Okay, I'm a dumbass, but if he had said "rosewood veneer BOARD Strat neck," I dont' think any of us woulda said that stupid stuff. I mean, I know the difference between a slab and a veneer. Honest.
Back in 1962 (or so) Fender stopped making slab boards and started using a thin veneer in an attempt to get that solid stable Maple neck sound, but with the look and feel of a rosewood board.
They are harder to make and so not many people make them. Fender even stopped doing it. (they may be doing some custom jobbies).
If he had said, "curved-board" instead of veneer I'd have known right away what was meant.
Scott Lentz used to make them, but they were attached to some very expensive guitars. I'd bet that USACG would make one for you but you would definitely pay a premium for something like that.
The funny thing is that you can sometimes find older Fernandes or Greco Strat copies (from Japan) that are made w/that feature. I've tossed around the idea of getting one & stripping it to make a more authentic replica w/a nitro finish & correct Fender logo.
Ya know...
One could, in theory, get a regular maple neck and mill off a bit and laminate some rosewood to it.
You probably get a thin maple neck and just lam. the rosewood on there and have a nice beefy neck when you're done.
:hmm
Sorry for the slam but I couldn't resist!:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Gravity Jim
You guys can get me back (and I'm sure you wil!) the next time I say something stupid (and I'm sure I will!)!
I knew what he meant, but didn't know who could/couldn't make them.:couch
I get it theory, but I have to ask, can you __really __hear __the difference
of having the extra 1/8" of rosewood beneath the metal frets that the string vibrates against?
Can you?
I don't think you can hear it. You can maybe hear it in the difference between a slab and a solid maple neck. That's why they went to a veneer. To save the solidity of the maple neck/sound.
It's a look and a feel.
(he said with a wink and a nudge)
Thanks again, I certainly didn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings, but since somebody asked for a clarification I went ahead and explained what I’m after. Not to insult anyone, just to explain to those who aren’t sure what I’m talking about.
There is a sonic difference though subtle. Veneer or curved fretboard necks are a little more lively than their slab board brethren in my experience and perhaps Leo thought so too other wise why else would he go from the relatively easy production of slab boards (late 50s to early 60s) to the much more difficult production of veneer necks (early 60s to early 70s). Leo wasn’t the type to waste a lot of extra time and expense on something that, he felt, didn’t make his products better.
At any rate I have talked to Tommy at USA and they don’t make them. I used the term veneer neck and he knew exactly what I was talking about with no explanation at all though I guess there are different terms for the same thing. I’ve struck out so far on finding someone to make one of these for me but if anyone can help and doesn’t want to risk ruffling a few feathers they can reach me at spytower@aol.com.
Thanks
Michael
Spytower,
I know the difference you're talking about.
I've got a large-headstock veneer neck. I also know a guy with a 64 gold strat with veneer. Very stiff and spanky necks.
Try to bend a flat piece of material. Then try to bend a piece of curved material.
I think mid '62 was the change. And yes, I think I can hear a difference in the sound:)
Fender Musicmaster 1963....http://thumb17.webshots.com/t/57/57/...7jRIItm_th.jpg
http://www.shamray.net
Absolutely great stuff, good prices. Don't know if they'll sell you just a neck, but its worth a shot? Send Michael an email, if you're interested.
Edit- I can't spell.
I think musicraft or what ever they're called make them as well, I remeber there was a thread on the gear page from someone who had them make a lam board '66 clone.
I looked around last year for an aftermarket lam board neck. I couldn't find any, including USACG. Yes, mid '62 is when the slab was replaced with the lam board on Fenders. IIRC, the reason Fender switched was that they were having a problem with the slab boards coming apart. This is also the reason that Fender made the RI a '62. Fender wanted to do a reissue slab board, but if they encountered the same problem with boards coming apart they could switch back to the lam board and still be able to call it a '62. In fact from when the lam board came out in '62, all Fender rosewood boards were lam until the reissues came out.
MY understanding is that Leo went this way strictly from a "cost of materials" standpoint, i.e. - rosewood was (slightly) more expensive than maple at the time. Knowing what I know about Leo, that seems like THE most likely answer. At the time that occurred, he probably already had his sights set on the (eventual) sale of his company, doncha know. . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Ganzler
Both wrong. Leo used the slab board because it was easy. After a while, they started having problems with the rosewood and maple working against each other. Construction methods and glues back then were no where near as advanced as today.Quote:
Originally Posted by spytower
Rosewood and maple move at two different rates when the weather changes. In addiition, rosewood moves a lot more. The thicker slab fretboard was having an adverse affect on the maple and throwing the necks out of whack. By thinning the rosewood to a curved fretboard, they were able to leave enough maple on the neck to overcome the rosewood's actions.
BTW, the term 'Veneer' is used to describe a very thin surfacing, usually around 1/42" of an inch or so. The curved rosewood boards are decidedly not veneer.
Hey, telecast, what exactly was the goal of using a rosewood fingerboard in the first place?
There was no 'goal' really, except that they were using it on the new guitar they just came out with, The Stratocaster. It was considered an upgrade over the regular maple board. At some point, they decided it was just as easy to build them for Teles too.
Oh, sorry, I meant why'd they put it on the Strat... originally the Strat was only available with a 1-piece maple neck for the first few years of production... After that, I thought they just switched to rosewood entirely. I'm wondering if the reason was tone, playability, or cosmetics.
Ok, this is from memory, but I'll try and look it up tonight if I can remember.
Anyway, as I recall, the rosewood was a reaction by Fender to the success of that new Gibson offering, the Les Paul. Three pickups were more than two, rosewood looked dressier and would appeal to the jazzers who typically went for Gibson, the modern look and offset body were more comfortable to play, etc.
There's a ton of good reading on this, the Telecaster Book and Stratocaster Book by Duchossoir, The Fender book by Bacon and Day, and most importantly, the Sound Heard 'Round the World by Smith. That one is out of print but can be had used. It's pretty much the bible when it comes to the why's and how's, while the three aforementioned books do an excellent job at technical end.
It's amazing how back then they went after each other's markets, maybe even moreso than now. It was all brand new, and they each had their failings in trying to outdo the other guy. These days they've settle into their markets, bolt necks and thin single coils Vs. set necks and 'buckers.
I read just recently, not neccesarily in a new source (I forget where), that one reason for going with rosewood was that wear on a maple board was SO VISIBLE.
Not a desired look back in the day, I guess.
Ironic, no?
Ok, my interest was piqued, so I looked it up. It turns out the reason was twofold. The Jazzmaster was the first guitar to have a rosewood neck, at the suggestion of the (then separate) Fender Sales Incorporated. They said "Everybody else has one, why can't we?" It was decided the Jazzmaster would have one because they were trying to appeal to a different higher end market, the JM Being the new flagship. This ocurred in 1958, with the Strat following suit in 1959. By then, they had decided to switch the entire range of electrics to rosewood.
The second reason was as Neo suggests. They didn't yet have a polyester finish and the lacquer was wearing through too quickly, leaving the finish discolored and the wood worn.
So as it turns out, you can thank Don Randall for the rosewood neck!
Musickraft does make a veneer (ok, curved) rosewood board neck for extra $$$$. I saw a picture of one and it's thicker than fender's. It looks closer to a '62 slab which was thinner than the early slabs. My opinion in the matter is that the curved board strats in general have a meatier tone. Slab board strats generally sound more scooped eq-wise. The 62 slab neck I had sounded very close to curved board strats I played though - so perhaps enough rosewood was removed by that time such that the difference in tone was neglible.
Here, are a few differences to the lam-board over the one piece or the slab. One, the lam-board is .900 maple and .100 rosewood so the sound is going to be closer to maple with the comfort of rosewood. Two, the one piece neck shows the wear faster when done with lacquer and in some cases is sticky.
Build wise, the early slab boards, were .187 not .250 like the new builds, this automaticly makes for more shoulder because of the edge fretboad thickness. The lam-board has an .100 continuous fretboard across the neck allowing for less shoulder which is similar to the one piece neck.