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After playing like 5 of these, I'm sorta dying to get one. I love how they play. Just something about them makes them worthwhile....
anyways, how much more do you you guys think I would need to get a vintage strat if I sold my American Deluxe Fat Strat ('03) and my Princeton 65 ('01)? Both of which are in almost perfect condition (A small ding at the bottom of the guitar that you can only see if you turn it over [the skinnier side]).
1964 Fender Stratocaster "Sunburst" Very clean example of a pre-C.B.S. Fender Stratocaster in original condition. This fine guitar has all the great features that include a great playing larger profile neck with a Brazilian Rosewood fret-board, Green-guard, 3-Staggered-pole pickups, L-serial plate and a Transition logo. Clean Fender Stratocaster's are becoming very hard to find and are also great investments. This one is very clean and is also a great guitar for someone who is looking for a light-weight superb playing original pre-C.B.S. Fender Stratocaster! EXC+ w/OHSC $12,900
Better start saving
oh I don't really care if it's clean or not. It doesn't even have to look all that great. Just has to work :P
Uh, I'm pretty sure that Fender never used Brazilian rosewood BITD.
Oh, that Pre-CBS strat is going to cost 5000 and up for a beat player.
crap... oh well.... maybe in like 10 yrs...
Vintage places always say Brazil wood on all guitars LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Wilko
And I should add that they are worth it.
I went out on a limb and borrowed the money to buy mine back in the 80's.
http://members.cox.net/wilko2/fender.../hearth_sm.jpg
I just let one go cheap at $9.5K.
I dunno man. I played well over 200 vintage Strats when I was looking for one and the majority of them, (like your photo clearly depicts), were firewood. I'll take a modern/vintage instrument any day because my experience has been that they sound better, play better, have no "issues", and don't cost 10 times what they're actually worth. I will conceed that there are some rare vintage "ringers" out there, but I sure haven't played one yet that I thought was any better then the current offerings from Fender. Not saying one is necessarily better than the other. Just sharing my personal experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilko
Get a "Body-only Refin" - best buy in the World! I've got a Jan. '64 Clay dot, Green 'guard, Spagetti logo that is 100% right down to the last screw except for a GREAT refin to my favorite color, Seafoam Green, and a pro refret with vintage-sized large frets. I've got $7,500.00 in it TOTAL, and have turned down much more. Two vintage dealers have taken it apart and are SURE the color is original :bwa (Or they feel like they could SELL it as original!) and are pretty anxious to relieve me of it!
Point is, if you can find THE right body-only refin (Uncompromised body contours) you can have YOUR favorite Fender Custom-colored Strat, TONS of vintage mojo, THE feel and tone, and only your hairdresser (Or Terry Mueller!) will know for SURE. . . :ola
Hell, with Custom colored Strats, nobody believes they're real when you DO have an original - it's like having a wife with perfect 36C breasticles! I saw a GREAT body-only refin in Seafoam at Rudy's Music Stop right now - a '61 Slabboard. . . :D
Seems to me that the "keeper" guitars are being "kept" if you know what I mean. I'm sure there are plenty of dogs out there that just happen to be old that are fetching ridiculous prices.
I'm with TB on this one.
I'd wager that most of the great (and what I mean by great here is great sounding, great playing and great looking) vintage instruments have been snagged up by folks that just aren't going to get rid of them in their lifetime.
Thus leaving the firewood scraps Tele-Bob refers to.
Add to that there are more vintage instruments now than ever. :rl If you're really good at faking bodies, for example, you could take what you believe to be a real vintage neck [probably made by somebody who's good at faking necks] and some modern hardware and pass it off as a several thousand dollar vintage parts-o-caster. Add five "PAT PEND" saddles [easily made by anybody with access to a machine shop] and get a few more hundred. People are willing to spend stupid amounts of money for "deals" and when the parts are mixed up, they're a lot less critical of the "real parts" that are there.
Another thing to consider is what you feel is vintage.
I have a 1966 strat that is CBS period. It has an outstanding strat tone. Incredible chime and a real smokey tone. I've never come across any strat that sounded this good, and that's why I bugged my buddy to sell it to me 13 years ago.
So my point is maybe a CBS era. It'll save you a lot of dough and you'll still get a cool old strat.
Once you have had a few real ones in your hand and examinated these examples to exhaution......, then there's no way you can be fooled by a fake, IMO, there are just certain things you can replicate but that's been my experience also when it comes to sound you can't beat that either...is just that simple.
I meant to say can't replicate...!!!
One thing they really cant fake is that old smell that 40-50 year old instruments get.
Vintage to me doesnt automaticly mean its gonna sound great there are vintage dogs and killers just like on new guitars.
If you ever have the chance to go into a big store that has 25-30 of the same model Fender play them all about 3 will be special the rest not so special. Same thing holds true on Vintage models except similar instruments in the same condition sell for the same price reguardless of how they sound.
With the only exception that after a good 40 years or so the Pups magnets have lost the strenght making them a lot more smoother sounding, I must be a rare animal but I can feel and tell the difference in the sound of new and old pups. Also I had played many new Fenders and so far I haven't found a real nice one yet but 3 and a half out of 5 Vintage Strats I have tried have that ummm, specially 64's and early. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcondo
What if you were given a Vintage Strat and a new Relic Strat and you were blindfolded. Do you think you could feel the difference?
Also what about on tape could anyone here pick out a Vintage Strat just by its sound on tape as compared to any good Strat with some good pickups in it? I say if you take the same player and he played a riff on a Vintage Strat and the same player played the same riff on 3 other Strats all with different pickups no one here could pick the Vintage one everytime.
I agree Marcondo. The only thing a vintage Strat really gives you is bragging rights. It's old. People like old things. There were some great guitars made many years ago. There are some great guitars being made now. Mankind did not suddenly stop making great guitars at a given point in history. In fact, even the "eras" where guitar production was considered sud-standard, there were still some great pieces in the lot. Given the technology we have today and the ability to practically replicate old guitars, I have to believe that on average, more great guitars are being produced in this day and age then were ever produced ever before. So the only remaining question is, "how much are bragging rights worth to a person?"
Hendrix didn`t care about 50` or early 60` strats........what a fool......
but for him, it was really a very very hard time to get to the top without those vintage strats and old wood......
And I bet, Clapton would have payed 5000-10000$ for those used strat parts back in the 70`....just to put his 2 strats together.......
bullshit........
So the hell....why should we do???
There are so many high quality components on the market to put together your individual high class strat for a reasonabel price......If it has to be vintage thing, fake it ,age it, but don`t pay it!!!
It doesn`t has always has to be fender and pre CBS.....
I was speaking of my own experience, me playing new and old axes, I do hear the difference, and is not the power of suggestion. BTW I do respect your opinion as I was just giving mine.
Peace.
Good thread! I must begrudgingly admit that a GOOD old Stratocaster (And I'm talking a ~1 in 50 or so of extant examples) DOES sound "smoother", "chimier", and "quackier" than a "New" Stratocaster/Partsocaster. I've owned over 50 Stratocasters, including ~ a dozen Masterbuilts, early '57/'62 Reissues from Fullerton AND Japan, several vintage Pre-CBS Strats, and a truckload of Partsocasters. The Partsocasters were probably at the TOP of the non-vintage sound heap, since I allowed myself free reign to swap necks/bodies/pickups/hardware with reckless, foolish abandon, having absolutely NO regard for money, 'til I got a good end result (or two). As TeleBob so succinctly put it in other posts, it's really a crapshoot - hit and miss 'til you get THE right neck/body combination - from there just dial in the electronics to taste. I've got TWO stellar Partsocasters right now - I've sunk probably $2K+ into each one, the result being that they will hold their respective own(s) against ANY CustomShop/Masterbuilt; regrettably, they are JUST not as smoove, buttery, and harmonically complex as my Foam Green Jan. '64 body-only refin. . .
As most of you know, I've chased my Les Paul tail for AS long as my Stratocaster tail, with LOTS more $ thrown at the effort, with the same result(s). I must ruefully acknowledge that there's "something" about the old wood; the old pickups don't hoit neither! ;)
I'll tell my standard vintage story:
The finest strat I ever played was a '63, all beat to hell & back. Looked like crap but sang like an angel. That guitar spoke to me like no other before or since.
Unfortunately, what it said was "I cost $5,000".
There's PLENTY of awe-inspiring instruments out there. Some are cheap, some are NOT. But eventually, if you keep trying, you'll find a keeper. Maybe more than one.
I have four electrics. I'd NEVER get rid of my 62 RI strat, or my G&L ASAT Classic. Well, probably never. ;-)
The other two, my '87 strat I keep around for nostalgia;s sake. It's a decent instrument, & we have a lot of history together. My tele is a nice guitar too, but I don't have an incredible attachment to it. I'm going to try swapping the pups out for some CS Texas Specials, & if that don't work, it's off to Fleabay we go, then back to the shopping trail. :-)
Guitars are what you make of them.
My guess is most of us have way better instruments than Hendrix or Clapton used in the 60's. But none of us sound like Hendrix or Clapton did in the 60's.
Marcondo, that is so true.
Yeah Clapton played a '59 LP. I'm lookin' at Hendrix playing an early 60's strat. What were they thinking?!!
A good old strat is a thing of beauty. The tone is amazing. Yes it sounds heads and shoulders better than new ones to me. Now the thing is, they all weren't great sounding.
Theres also many guitars that arent custom shop or vintage that play really well! Every so often you'll come across the everyday standard strat and you'll think to yourself, "WHOA"! Thats the one! :dude
I was doing a little gear shopping today and played an excellent condition 61 Strat. What a piece of firewood! Dull, dead, lifeless stick of a guitar. Now, the Suhr S type guitar next to it was amazing!
I'm sure there are plenty of vintage strats that just "lay there" but the ones that sing are the ones that have that old wood "something" that I just haven't yet felt in any newer guitar. Some are very close.
Same with Les Pauls, It's not really as much in the sound but it's in the "feel". Much more complex, resonant overtones that I really like in my guitars. Many like the simple, solid no fuss solid guitars, I prefer a bit more of that woody sound.
Plus, bragging rights are worth about 6-10k these days ;)
Mine's been doing it's job with me for almost 20 years. The sickest part is the $900.00 pickguard!
Some of us just still love that old firewood
http://kthesheep.smugmug.com/photos/15341616-O-1.jpg
@ master chief
don`t wait 10 yrs, don`t sell your nice princeton...
take:
MIM 50 or 60 classic series body (sunburst, so they can`t fool you with a mucho piece body or poplar etc.)
I got a one piece! body for 180$ at e-pay. rare, but possible......take your time...
let`s say...Warmoth neck....fits perfect in a standard fender neck pocket...choose vintage specs....frets-size-shape-rosewood-marple......
some metall aftermarket parts, some plastic aftermarket parts
(why pay more?)
you can take those everyday fender pups.......
and try those different variations of pup height adjustment pots+caps....and there are tons of different sounds for free.....)
you really will get very close to a perfect 61 vintage sound,
for 7000 to 5000$ less.....
@ thread
Don`t get me wrong, I respect the collectors and vintage players point of view, they do a great job to safe the heritage of this fine instruments
but on the other side: nothing comes close to nail these vintage sounds with a perfect tuned cheapo-caster ......
I've played more guitars than Van Kamps got beans, & nothing feels or sounds like a Vintage Fender that is properly set up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kthesheep
I don't know who you think you are,,,,
but this is one of the most blatant vulgar display of strats i have ever seen!!
Its gona take me a week to get to get rid of the woody,, Hope your happy :rl
http://kthesheep.smugmug.com/photos/15341616-O-1.jpg
Lots of great reading here guys,, I love it :)
Yeah, but there's only two maple necks, and at least one is post-CBS.:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Spooky
[edited to add]
soory...that was way too smart-ass. NICE collection.:yay
With apologies to Pink Floyd... Are all those your guitars? :wowQuote:
Originally Posted by Spooky
Just beautiful!!! Seriously is that all old wood? Are any re-fins?
Can you clarify what the colors are for the 3rd from the left and the 2nd from the right? Is the first Copper and the second Aztec Gold?
I would guess the one you are calling copper is actually Burgundy Mist.
Nice collection whatever their heritage might be!!!
This is only one wall, I do have more maple neck strats. My new wife is supportive of my addiction but prefers more conventional decoration in the house. I only keep a few laying around anymore I have had a serious addiction since I was seven years old.Quote:
Originally Posted by quackman
I am not rich and am not trying to be pompous. I just show off my guitars and amps like I show off my children.
3rd from left is a 1966 with a beautiful flame neck, in the pic the body only had been painted non original color (copper) It is now refined to ice blue metallic.
2nd from the right is a gold 56 I had refined in the 80's with all original gold hardware.
I try to stay away from refins but when I find an all original guitar with the body only refinished. I will purchase it and try to restore it to its original state.
Perfect example is a pair of fifties strats 55 and 58 the 55 was a bad mary kay refin on the body only. The 58 was painted purple I restored the bodies back to the original color and even was able to recover the body dates on both and preserve them.
http://kthesheep.smugmug.com/photos/9810692-M-1.jpg
Those strats are a thing of beauty sheep. Well one thing is for sure no can tell you that vintage strats are not better sounding and playing guitars than the newer ones. I also have or have had all kind of Strats including CS and Suhr, Mels, Grosh, Anderson and Zion. I have a 1966 and it is is a notch above all of them. I got it somewhat reasonable because it was a refin. However it was a Fender Factory refin done in 1969 and it is incredible! and it has the most beautiful Braz' RW FB and has the straightest neck and best action of just about any other strat I've played. The neck is perfect. oh yeah, it is a one peice body, and the neck is beautifully figured. I dont see fender putting Braz FB or one peice bodies on any production strats any more. Yes the old ones are better built guitars (from my experience)... period.
Cant resist getting in on this. A great thread. I'm new to this forum and thus far enjoy what I see. What I have to offer is a 62 strat (hence stratcat62) which, as has been discussed, is a special player and quit toneful. That said, my number one is a 2004 American Deluxe Ash body with Kinman Woodstocks (including his solderless kit). While the 62 has a sweet spot (which I might not find on another 62), my number one delivers excellent vintage tones and is more versatile. And, I hate to say this, the new strat plays considerably better than the 62. Of course, when I got mine it was called used and I swapped one of the first EH LPB-1's (cost of $35) even up for the strat and a black faced bassman head. The old girl has been with me since 1969 (every one wanted Les Paul's). Plus, it ain't for sale.