What's more important to tone/sound: Guitar or Amp?

I know there will be people chiming in saying "tone is in the hands, not the gear" blah, blah, blah. Is tone in the hands? Yeah, but gear is very important, too. I don't care what some people say, if Roy Buchannan played a bone stock Squire Telecaster into a SS Gorilla Practice amp, he'd sound like shit compared to Nancy into a Vibrolux. If he played a 1959 Les Paul into an original Marshall 100W Plexi, he'd still sound badass, but he WOULD sound different. A Lester into a Marshall sounds drastically different than a Telecaster into a BF Vibrolux Reverb. This said: What's more important?

I say amp. Give me a great amp and a decent guitar any day. An MIM Fender, Squire, Epiphone, etc... can be modded to sound pretty durn good. Plug that into a great amp, and you'll sound good IMO (IF you can play worth a rip in the first place). However, an original $200,000 1959 Les Paul plugged into a $50 Solid State amp (or any SS amp for that matter) won't sound inspiring at all.

To me, the amp is the more important piece of the puzzle.

A great amp inspires me, even with a mediocre guitar.

IMHO, there are far fewer great amps than great guitars. Amps with channel switching need not apply.

I couldn't agree more. That's why you never see me in a "which pickup?" thread. If most of these people would get a decent amp they wouldn't need new pups.

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Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

If most of these people would get a decent amp they wouldn't need new pups.

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Easy for you to say, Mr. Blackface Deluxe Reverb! :D

I agree. If you can afford only one piece of nice gear, it should be the amp. A great guitar can make you play better, but the amp and effects chain is the key to a signature tone.

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Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

I couldn't agree more. That's why you never see me in a "which pickup?" thread. If most of these people would get a decent amp they wouldn't need new pups.

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I think there's a difference between a quality pickup and a cheap pickup, but nowhere near the difference between a quality amp and a cheap amp. In blind comparisons, I doubt most people (if any) will be able to tell a real difference between competing pickups (Voodoo, Fralin, Hamel, SD Antiquity, etc...). That is, between flatpole tele pickups, etc... Heck, most people probably wouldn't be able to tell a difference between regular SD pickups and the handwound ones in a blind comparison.

Humbuckers, though, are a different story.

Amp all the way! I used to pick the right amp for the venue. I didn't really care what guitar...

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Originally Posted by grito

Amp all the way! I used to pick the right amp for the venue. I didn't really care what guitar...

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That's another valuable piece! Picking the right amp for the venue. 40 Blackface Fender watts is more than MOST people need, much less the 80-100W of a Twin Reverb. I really don't get it when people buy Twins unless they actually use it for the correct gigs (a couple thousand or more at an outdoor gig or big venue). Spend your money on something where you can actually turn the amp into the sweet spot.

If you can stand a cranked twin in most places, then I hope you don't damage your hearing.

Well, I guess I'll be the first to throw a monkey wrench into the works. My thoughts go like this...
The two most important parts of an audio string is the "capture" device and then the "output" device. Reasoning goes like this...
If you can't capture the audio input correctly, then everything after that is just correction factor. Also, if you can't get the processed output to convert back to audio waves right, everything that went before is just wasted.
So, it ends up in this example that you need good audio input (strings & Pick-up) before you begin processing the signal and, you need a good set of speakers to faithfully reproduce the output, however it's processed.
I look at amplifiers as signal processors but to me the most important component would be the speakers. If you had a great pick-up that did 100% of the job, then processed that signal to a crappy speaker, it wopuldn't sound as good as the perfect processing provided just because it simply can't reproduce the processed signal fully.
All in all, I guess I'm agreeing with the amp thoughts but I'm agreeing not so much because of the amp itself, but because of the ability of the speaker installed in the amp.

The physics of magnetic pickups is quite elementary. There are variances such as materials used for the magnets, shape of magnet(s), number of windings, and distance from the strings, etc. that all affect the output in different ways, but there really isn't any new ground being broken. There are a few proven designs that pickup manufacturers tweak to their own specs. The manufacturing process is very similar for all of them. Amp circuits and cabinet configurations are much more complex.

I'm in the "guitar" camp.

If you want to sound like a Tele, you gotta have a Tele. the amp can make it better, but if the tone isn't there in the original signal, it's not there at all.

Speakers are a very important part of a great amp. However, if the amp sucks, a great speaker can't save it.

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Originally Posted by pbradt

I'm in the "guitar" camp.

If you want to sound like a Tele, you gotta have a Tele. the amp can make it better, but if the tone isn't there in the original signal, it's not there at all.

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I'd still rather hear a Fernandes 'tele' through a tweed deluxe than a nocaster through a Peavey Rage.

Well, the truth is you can't really have one without the other, and have it sound good.

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Originally Posted by Kap'n

I'd still rather hear a Fernandes 'tele' through a tweed deluxe than a nocaster through a Peavey Rage.

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ditto that

The guitar makes a difference, but nowhere near the difference an amp makes IMO.

I'd rather have a decent amp and decent guitar versus the stellar guitar/crappy amp idea.

If I had to choose, I'd have to fall in the amp category. I could give up every one of my electric guitars if I had to (sorry, girls) but there's no way I'd part with my Deluxe Reverb.

So, I guess waht we're saying for the most part is the signal processing is the most important part. If so, then it dosen't matter much what the guitar is or the pickup device, it only matters how well we can amplify the signal and push it out of a good speaker?

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Originally Posted by Mikey

So, I guess waht we're saying for the most part is the signal processing is the most important part. If so, then it dosen't matter much what the guitar is or the pickup device, it only matters how well we can amplify the signal and push it out of a good speaker?

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Nope. What we're saying is in these times, given a choice between an adequate guitar and excellent amp, or an excellent guitar and an adequate amp, a lot of folks would pick the former. Subpar instruments throw off the equation considerably.

Contrast that to the 50's and 60's, where not just good, but excellent amplifiers were fairly common, but sub-par instruments were the norm. High quality instruments, like Fenders and Gibsons were pretty much the domain of professionals and rich folks. Lots of folks can afford great instruments these days. Even Pbradt talks about the quality of the CIJ Fenders, which are student-model priced. Back in the 60's, for that equivalent price, you'd be looking at a Harmony, Kay or Zim-Gar.

However, talent trumps all.

If the amp is the winner here, then why do umpteen million guitar players try several new beauties out plugged into any old amp in the guitar store before buying it instead of insisting on the "prime" amp to test their guitars?

Sorry to throw a wet blanket in here.

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Originally Posted by shoebox22

If the amp is the winner here, then why do umpteen million guitar players try several new beauties out plugged into any old amp in the guitar store before buying it instead of insisting on the "prime" amp to test their guitars?

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An excellent question!

Especially when you figure that the amp in the store is most likely (if it's tube):

A mass-produced amp, with OK, but not excellent components, the cheapest tubes and speakers available, and most likely biased cold to prolong the life of said tubes.

or

A "Vintage" amp that was traded in/put on consignment because it didn't sound so hot to the owner, due to worn out tubes, old filter caps, cheap replacement speaker......

Some in-the-know stores have 'ringer' amps that are tweaked out, and coincidentally just happen to not be for sale. "It's my personal amp, yada, yada." Guitars played through the ringer amp at the store sound immediately better than an identical guitar at Guitar Center, enhancing sales.

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Originally Posted by shoebox22

If the amp is the winner here, then why do umpteen million guitar players try several new beauties out plugged into any old amp in the guitar store before buying it instead of insisting on the "prime" amp to test their guitars?

Sorry to throw a wet blanket in here.

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That's because they all suck ass! :bonk

No, but really, I ALWAYS took my '68 Princeton Reverb for the final try-out of any guitar. To me, the guitar is the last link in the "tone" chain. I need an amp that is goosed into grit for the right hall. If I was playing a small club, the PR would fit the bill. If the place was bigger, and we were playing with a percussionist and a horn section, had to take the VR. Outside gigs got the Bassman. The guitar was whatever I felt like taking at the time. Did I feel like a strat day, or a gritty Hamer P-90 day? Didn't really matter because I was getting a great tone out of the amp at about 6-8 on the volume control. Nice clean tone when I layed back, nice and gritty when I layed into it. Can't do that with just the guitar.

A guitar sounds the way it does and the amp makes it louder.

A good amp males a good guitar sound better but a bad amp doesnt completly kill the sound of a good guitar.

Santana at Woodstock played thru a solid state amp which most people hate he sounded great Albert King also used solid state and I have even heard Roy Buchanan play thru a solid state amp and he sounded about the same except the highs were really ice picky.

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Originally Posted by Marcondo

A good amp males a good guitar sound better but a bad amp doesnt completly kill the sound of a good guitar.

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True to a degree, but a Squier through a '59 Bassman is going to be more pleasing to the ear than a Masterbuilt CS guitar through a solid state Crate.

Mikey, If we were only amplifying the signal the input would be the most important part of the equation. This is precisely what you want in Hi-Fi equipment, and mostly, PA's. But with the geetar you care about the end product. The overdrive and speaker breakup are all key parts of the tone. And the dynamics. Ever hear anyone complaining their Strat is too "ice-picky"? It's almost alway the amp's fault and not the axe. I thought my Vintage Noisless pups in my Strat were useless untill I put them throught the DR. Now I love them. To me, it makes that big a difference. When I put your P90 Tele into it, I'd take that tone any day!

Oh well, my opinion and 50 cents will get you coffee. My new motto is 'Just play the dang thing!"

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but a Squier through a '59 Bassman is going to be more pleasing to the ear than a Masterbuilt CS guitar through a solid state Crate.

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Maybe if it was being played by the same guy. But, I'd rather hear Warren Haynes play that masterbuilt/ solid state combo than CC DeVille playing the Squier/Bassman combo....any day!!

And that tells you how important the player is in the equation.

Put me in a room full of amps, with one guitar, and let me go wild :drl


















http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-...YXOR-index.gif

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Maybe if it was being played by the same guy. But, I'd rather hear Warren Haynes play that masterbuilt/ solid state combo than CC DeVille playing the Squier/Bassman combo....any day!!

And that tells you how important the player is in the equation.

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:yay

Neither: It's The Player.


Good instrument AND amps are totally important, don't get me wrong, but a good "player" can adapt and conquer and leave you dizzy. imho

I've had total crap and "GREAT PLAYERS" came in and made them sound like heaven.

And da's da trute!

OA, gotcha. I was just questioning for clarity's sake. Sometimes I can't follow because some jumps are made and the original question get rabit-trailed to no-answer land. I wanted to stay with this one.

sorry, Fezz, guess we were posting at the same time...great minds thinking alike and all that.

I'd rather have a killer guitar in my hands and a half-way decent amp, than vice versa.

Come on guys! Tone is in the hat!

Nope, it's in the strap! Leather vs. nylon, conch shells vs. tassels...

What's more important, the round ball or the hoop?
The engine or the brakes?
The mountains or the valleys .
Sorry, gotta go. I hear one of my squirrels whistling for me.

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sorry, Fezz, guess we were posting at the same time...great minds thinking alike and all that.

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Fezz, you're lucky I didn't copyright that thought!!! :hee

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Originally Posted by shunka

Come on guys! Tone is in the hat!

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Don't forget the Kimono
:}

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Originally Posted by Annie D.

Neither: It's The Player.


Good instrument AND amps are totally important, don't get me wrong, but a good "player" can adapt and conquer and leave you dizzy. imho

I've had total crap and "GREAT PLAYERS" came in and made them sound like heaven.

And da's da trute!

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Sorry Annie, but I have to challenge that. If I learned anythng last week on TFF, it's that if you don't have a vintage axe and a vintage amp, you ain't $%@! Infact, from now on I'm only going to use vintage cords and strings too. God forbid the Tone Police find me using anything less!

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Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

Sorry Annie, but I have to challenge that. If I learned anythng last week on TFF, it's that if you don't have a vintage axe and a vintage amp, you ain't $%@! Infact, from now on I'm only going to use vintage cords and strings too. God forbid the Tone Police find me using anything less!

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Did I miss something?

start with "good shit" and you can likely make it sound better...

start with "bad shit" and all you've got is shit...