Does anybody else...

...get pi$$ed off when people say that bolt ons are "just kit guitars" and shouldn't cost half of what people charge?

YMMV, but IMHO if you've ever held, let alone play a good quality strat or tele, and a cheapo one, you can tell the difference, and it's not all about the parts being well made and thrown in a bin, only to be picked up and assembled together. There's a lot of craftsmanship going on and a good strat is a state of the art guitar, to this very day.

The fact that the neck is screwed on, not glued, is entirely irrelevant (if not an advantage regarding setup and repair situations) to the overall quality of the guitar.

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Originally Posted by Sérgio

...get pi$$ed off when people say that bolt ons are "just kit guitars" and shouldn't cost half of what people charge?

YMMV, but IMHO if you've ever held, let alone play a good quality strat or tele, and a cheapo one, you can tell the difference, and it's not all about the parts being well made and thrown in a bin, only to be picked up and assembled together. There's a lot of craftsmanship going on and a good strat is a state of the art guitar, to this very day.

The fact that the neck is screwed on, not glued, is entirely irrelevant (if not an advantage regarding setup and repair situations) to the overall quality of the guitar.

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Is a wooden sailing ship glued together? Nope, they use bolts!

Seriously, though, pros and cons exist for both approaches. Even a glued in neck is a form of a kit, if you think about it. You can change the neck if you want to. It’s just slightly more difficult to do so. Different strokes for different folks.

Whoever sniffs their noses at bolt-ons are goofy goobers. I love set neck guitars, but when I need a Strat or a Tele, I won't get the sound out of my Les Paul. Does it really matter, as long as you're getting the sounds you want? Look at Danelectros and the great, if unique, sounds they make. No doubt, on the net, you're going to find clichés of thought about instruments: A maple fretboard is more "open"; 70s Fenders are all shit; non American instruments are inferior; etc. Here are some that I've seen about the models I own.

Martin--Martins are too bass-y. I get the same tones as McCartney got in "Blackbird" on his D28. Listen to those sweet highs.
My burst Strat--modern AmStds are no good--I'll put mine up against any era of AmStds
My Hofner--made in Germany but some assembly in the US custom shop--this is apparently a sin against the Gods and Stradivarius.
My Martin Mexican 12 string---non-US, synthetic fretboard, assembly-line level manufacturing, and yet, it sounds very close to the 12 string Martin on "Wish You Were Here".
My G&L--NOT a FENDER--yes, and I'm glad. Nice to have a JB sound different from the Fender JBs I love too.

If I'd never had the internet, I'd have never even thought about any of these stupidities. So fackk what the corksniffers say, and just enjoy your Strats. We like our bolt ons too.

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Originally Posted by ch willie

Whoever sniffs their noses at bolt-ons are goofy goobers. I love set neck guitars, but when I need a Strat or a Tele, I won't get the sound out of my Les Paul. Does it really matter, as long as you're getting the sounds you want? Look at Danelectros and the great, if unique, sounds they make. No doubt, on the net, you're going to find clichés of thought about instruments: A maple fretboard is more "open"; 70s Fenders are all shit; non American instruments are inferior; etc. Here are some that I've seen about the models I own.

Martin--Martins are too bass-y. I get the same tones as McCartney got in "Blackbird" on his D28. Listen to those sweet highs.
My burst Strat--modern AmStds are no good--I'll put mine up against any era of AmStds
My Hofner--made in Germany but some assembly in the US custom shop--this is apparently a sin against the Gods and Stradivarius.
My Martin Mexican 12 string---non-US, synthetic fretboard, assembly-line level manufacturing, and yet, it sounds very close to the 12 string Martin on "Wish You Were Here".
My G&L--NOT a FENDER--yes, and I'm glad. Nice to have a JB sound different from the Fender JBs I love too.

If I'd never had the internet, I'd have never even thought about any of these stupidities. So fackk what the corksniffers say, and just enjoy your Strats. We like our bolt ons too.

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agreed. It’s interesting in the bass world, of all the pedantic stuff that comes up, set neck vs bolt on doesn’t really come up (well, maybe for upright basses vs electric basses). Most of the basses I’ve seen and played are bolt ons, even the most corksnifferyous basses out there.

I am reminded of the scene in The Dirty Dozen when Donald Sutherland, impersonating a general inspecting an honor guard, says to the commanding officer, “Very pretty, colonel. But can they fight?”

THAT is my ultimate gauge of a guitar.

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Originally Posted by OldStrummer

I am reminded of the scene in The Dirty Dozen when Donald Sutherland, impersonating a general inspecting an honor guard, says to the commanding officer, “Very pretty, colonel. But can they fight?”

THAT is my ultimate gauge of a guitar.

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Now that is an astute observation, Fred!

Well, I do often wonder why an American Strat or Tele costs so much more than Mexican one. There are many quality import bolt-ons that cost far less and play and sound better. The major cost driver in guitar production is finishing and let's face it - Fender isn't exactly setting the world on fire with their finishes.

Chuck

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Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

Well, I do often wonder why an American Strat or Tele costs so much more than Mexican one. There are many quality import bolt-ons that cost far less and play and sound better. The major cost driver in guitar production is finishing and let's face it - Fender isn't exactly setting the world on fire with their finishes.

Chuck

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To each his own, and of course YMMV.

But I certainly can tell several differences between a stock Mexican strat and an American one, at least regarding American Standards and higher end ones. The US ones will often be better built and better finished, the neck fitting is often perfect and so on... There is actual hand work involved after all... They play better and sound better, unless of course we’re talking about a modded, worked on Mexican.

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Originally Posted by Sérgio

To each his own, and of course YMMV.

But I certainly can tell several differences between a stock Mexican strat and an American one, at least regarding American Standards and higher end ones. The US ones will often be better built and better finished, the neck fitting is often perfect and so on... There is actual hand work involved after all... They play better and sound better, unless of course we’re talking about a modded, worked on Mexican.

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Sergio, if you've ever been to the Corona Factory you might change your view. And they share parts between the Mexico and Corona factories too. My #1 Tele is a Mexican. I had it and a USA Tele at the same time and kept the Mexican since it was the superior instrument. It's recorded a ton of music and made money. I have been so summarily unimpressed with recent USA Fenders that unless something changes drastically I see no value proposition in buying a new one.

I always laugh that at how people pan American cars and say how much better the imports are, but guitars - no way! Unless it says "Made in the USA" on it it's not worth owning. Fender today is a different company than it was back with George and Leo where there. Completely different with different objectives.

It takes very little skill to assemble a bolt-on guitar like a Strat. If you can solder and use a screwdriver you have all the skills required. I've assembled and repaired many guitars. Neck fitting is easy and takes about two minutes. Anybody can do it.

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Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

Sergio, if you've ever been to the Corona Factory you might change your view. And they share parts between the Mexico and Corona factories too. My #1 Tele is a Mexican. I had it and a USA Tele at the same time and kept the Mexican since it was the superior instrument. It's recorded a ton of music and made money. I have been so summarily unimpressed with recent USA Fenders that unless something changes drastically I see no value proposition in buying a new one.

I always laugh that at how people pan American cars and say how much better the imports are, but guitars - no way! Unless it says "Made in the USA" on it it's not worth owning. Fender today is a different company than it was back with George and Leo where there. Completely different with different objectives.

It takes very little skill to assemble a bolt-on guitar like a Strat. If you can solder and use a screwdriver you have all the skills required. I've assembled and repaired many guitars. Neck fitting is easy and takes about two minutes. Anybody can do it.

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Assembling them is easy, yes, but the US made parts I've come across are definitely better made and finished. Of course, like I said, you may have a different experience, but the ones I've played and handled so far, and they've been many, were just like I'm saying...

AFAIK, btw, the exchange of parts between Mexico and Corona does happen, but only regarding less expensive series of US guitars.

Anyway, as for your Mexican tele being an outstanding instrument, I don't doubt it. People make wonderful music with all kinds of instruments, and the concept of a "good" instrument is highly subjective. What was the guitar Page used to record Kashmir, again?

My current Strat project has a Mexican body. I've wired in some Duncans and a lefty harness. My other Fenders are American, and I love them. But why would I sniff my nose at a Mexican body? If I'd gotten an MIA body painted black, it'd probably consist of just as many pieces glued together. I'll see how it plays and sounds before I even think about upgrading the bridge and saddles. I have a feeling they'll be all right. I've said it before, but one of the best sounding Strats I've ever heard is my buddy's late 90s MIM Strat.

Just to clarify, I am not dissing MIM instruments in any way. All I am saying is, most of the times if you pick an average MIM and an average MIA off a shop shelf, you’ll likely notice a difference.

Btw I started the thread stating that bolt ons can be just as good as set necks, with the obvious differences that come from the construction of the instrument.

I know you weren't knocking MIMs. But there is a kind of American dream myth tied up with American manufacturing, especially where guitars, cars, and motorcycles are concerned. Much of my preference of US made things is the fetishization of "America", as with Route 66, Hell's Angels, Beat poets, Coca-Cola, Budweiser, apple pie, James Dean and Jesus Christ. I like having American guitars, and a lot of that comes from that myth that US things are superior. That belief is persistent and sometimes true. My $800 "Crafted in China" Epiphone Casino sounds good and feels good, but it's going to need a few important upgrades. The switch wiring is shorting, so I've got to do Epi's job for them. This has happened on at least 4 Epis I've owned in 30 years.

I had a 2006 MIM sunburst Strat. They used ceramic pups then, which I didn't like, and you didn't see the body wood because they put a cheap veneer over it and painted it sunburst. It was so cheap looking that I had to get rid of it, couldn't stand to look at it. Now, though, those bodies are good alder with nice bursts on the wood I think MIMs have changed for the better in the last few years. I'm not sold on the necks and headstocks, but that's just my preference.

MIM's are generally pretty darned good from my experience. Squiers, well that's another story altogether. I seen some that were absolutely unplayable but some of the early Japanese Squiers surpass the USA models of their time. Any of the Cort-built Squiers are pretty nice guitars.

All IMHO,

Chuck

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Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

MIM's are generally pretty darned good from my experience. Squiers, well that's another story altogether. I seen some that were absolutely unplayable but some of the early Japanese Squiers surpass the USA models of their time. Any of the Cort-built Squiers are pretty nice guitars.

All IMHO,

Chuck

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Those early Squier strats were no joke, they were pretty damn good. Many great players used them. This reminded me of this gig:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd2AvtdFCvQ

At the same point in my life, I owned a Squier CV Jazz, a Japanese PJ, a MIM Jazz and a Custom Shop Jazz. Maybe it’s just my unrefined senses speaking, but I really didn’t feel a fundamental difference in the playability of any of these basses. Yes, one or two looked better but they all sounded pretty much the same to me. I did,however, have a teacher tell me my CS Jazz sounded just amazing. I extrapolated that to my other basses since they all sounded pretty much the same!

I have gotten my Strat project together, and it sounds great. I used a prewired harness, but I put a lot of work into the neck. The MIM Player body is great. The trem block is more substantial than in my 2008 AmStd. But the saddles feel like chrome coated plastic. I'll change them eventually. For now, I'm going to play it a while and see what adjustments I want to make. I've got to do some fretwork on it and might sand down the nut more.