Partscasters...Looking for pointers

Alrighty,

I'm leaning toward building a partscaster as my next Strat. Why? Well, because I am an incurable tinkerer and can't leave well-enough alone. I like to fix things that aren't broken! I want to leave my current Strat completely unmolested, but I need an outlet for my OCD.

Soooo...I'm curious about necks. I'd like to use an all-maple USA neck. Is there any restriction on the type of body? Does it have to have a USA body, or can it mount to a MIM body? My choices of necks is a little limited, as well, since I'd like to have the large headstock.

The other parts I'm pretty cool with, but selecting the right neck and body seems to be the most critical element.

Why the stipulation of a USA neck?

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Originally Posted by phantomman

Why the stipulation of a USA neck?

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I want 22 frets. Unless I am mistaken, MIM necks only have 21 frets.

Am I wrong?

Believe it or not, sometimes I actually do go up that high.

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Originally Posted by smitty_p

I want 22 frets. Unless I am mistaken, MIM necks only have 21 frets.

Am I wrong?

Believe it or not, sometimes I actually do go up that high.

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No, I don't think so. AFAIK only the MIA necks (some of them) offer the desired 22-fret board. You'll need a Fender-US or aftermarket type from Warmoth or USACG. I don't think Allparts or Musikraft build anything except for the standard 21-fret furniture and I'm not certain that either of them make any necks with the CBS-era headstock.

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Originally Posted by phantomman

No, I don't think so. AFAIK only the MIA necks (some of them) offer the desired 22-fret board. You'll need a Fender-US or aftermarket type from Warmoth or USACG. I don't think Allparts or Musikraft build anything except for the standard 21-fret furniture and I'm not certain that either of them make any necks with the CBS-era headstock.

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Yeah. That's what I thought, too. The neck will probably be the first thing I get. Let me ask, though...will a 22 fret MIA neck work okay on a MIM body?

I *think* so though I've never personally built a Strat in that configuration. Fender's extra fret is added via an extension of the fretboard at the heel -- so it's actually mounted to a "shelf" which juts beyond the neck pocket. Thus, the 25.5" scale length remains the same and no relocation of the bridge is necessary.

I have a friend selling a 22 fret neck - complete with one of dan erlewines loaded pickguards. I don't know if it is usa or not, but its a killer strat - great platform ........ I will only offer to get a price and contact/pics if you are interested. If I remember its a 22 fret - vintage tint - maroon body - tort pg, and a ........ Maple fretboard? Yes roger - a shelf type extension.......

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Originally Posted by smitty_p

Yeah. That's what I thought, too. The neck will probably be the first thing I get. Let me ask, though...will a 22 fret MIA neck work okay on a MIM body?

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Yes it will. (Also Warmoth can do a CBS headstock 22 fret)

Something to watch for regarding Fender bodies and 6 point trems.

Most MIM bodies have a different spacing of the 6 screw holes (2 1/16) than the MIA 6 point (2 7/32). That is EXCEPT MIM Classic (50's,60's,70's) (2 7/32) which uses the MIA vintage spacing (2 7/32).

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Originally Posted by FrankJohnson

I have a friend selling a 22 fret neck - complete with one of dan erlewines loaded pickguards. I don't know if it is usa or not, but its a killer strat - great platform ........ I will only offer to get a price and contact/pics if you are interested. If I remember its a 22 fret - vintage tint - maroon body - tort pg, and a ........ Maple fretboard? Yes roger - a shelf type extension.......

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Don't bother to get prices or anything, yet. I'm still in the information/funds gathering phase, so I'm not ready to pull the trigger right now.

I very much appreciate the help, though.

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Originally Posted by blackonblack

Something to watch for regarding Fender bodies and 6 point trems.

Most MIM bodies have a different spacing of the 6 screw holes (2 1/16) than the MIA 6 point (2 7/32). That is EXCEPT MIM Classic (50's,60's,70's) (2 7/32) which uses the MIA vintage spacing (2 7/32).

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So, this tells me I may want to lean towards a MIA body, since I would guess most aftermarket parts (Callaham, etc.) would be built for USA specs.

Does that seem correct?

If you "guess" when ordering bridge parts -- whether Fender or aftermarket -- you're likely to end up with a bunch of stuff that doesn't fit your application, just like I did when I first began assembling parts-o-casters. Do your research before you buy.

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Originally Posted by smitty_p

So, this tells me I may want to lean towards a MIA body, since I would guess most aftermarket parts (Callaham, etc.) would be built for USA specs.

Does that seem correct?

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Callaham has parts for both MIA and MIM. In fact you can mix/match the trems relative to screw spacing versus string spacing.

Myself I have a MIM body but with the wider MIA screw spacing, but I got the trem with the narrower string spacing HA!

http://www.callahamguitars.com/partsstr.htm#bridges

Note the Callaham V/N Model

If you want, I do have a Callaham Strat bridge 2 7/32 x 2 7/32 w/o the bar that I'd be willing to sell.

Then again, after I buy the parts and build my own, I could be in it for more money than just buying a guitar outright to use as a modding platform.

It's usually a lot cheaper just to buy a guitar than to build one, and then you know what you have.

The only rational reasons I can see to build one would be

A) A situation where you want specific traits and use top-end parts to create a truly high-end guitar that's exactly how you want it. But even that's a crapshoot, because nobody knows how it will feel and sound until all those expensive parts are flying in formation or,

B) You buy a bunch of guitars because this one has great neck, you love the neck pickup on this one, This body has nice contours and a nice sound... and then take the best parts from all the guitars to assemble one super guitar. That's how my Esquire came to be.

This practice of people parting out guitars on eBay, only to have them reassembled with like components by others just seems silly to me.

And interestingly - after playing for decades and having built, modded, upgraded and who knows what else to many, many guitars guess what? My core of my three "go to" axes that are my favorites are all <drum roll...> bone stock. I bought them because they played and sounded great, and guess what? They still do. I've never really had any success in upgrading a mediocre guitar into "something special." IMVHO, they're either born with it or they ain't.

Like, no matter how much you spend upgrading a Corvette, it will never be a Ferrari.


Of course, there are irrational reasons to do it.

YMMV

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Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

It's usually a lot cheaper just to buy a guitar than to build one, and then you know what you have.


Of course, there are irrational reasons to do it.

YMMV

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I assembled a bass from parts over a year - Hwy1 J body that had been shielded - Reggie Hamilton neck - NO hardware - honest late 70s tuners, MIM bridge - MIA loaded control plate - roadworn J pups,

Until I added the knobs (black steel barrel - not fancy, just different) and pearloid pickguard, I was under $200.....that put me up to like $230. Its a Day-um Nice Bass -

Its not an Xotic, or Lakland - but its a nice bass - and I have several other much nicer ones.....this one gets playtime!

That all said - its a different quest - what you seek is....THE GRAIL

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Originally Posted by FrankJohnson

....THE GRAIL

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LOLOL

Actually, much of my work is merely upgrading a Strat to reflect true Leo Fender specs......steel trem block, aluminum pickguard shield, mil-spec controls and wiring, real Kluson tuners, etc. Periodic hot-rodding is limited to aftermarket pickups and alternate switching configurations.

So what steel trem blocks do you use, Roger? Do they have the shallow holes for the strings?

Thus far I used genuine Fender blocks exclusively in my own Strats. But I've installed several Callaham blocks into clients' guitars with excellent results. Frankly, as long as it's solid steel I don't think there's much sonic difference between the two IMO. The Delrin trem-arm bushing that Callaham uses is a palpable improvement though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

It's usually a lot cheaper just to buy a guitar than to build one, and then you know what you have.

The only rational reasons I can see to build one would be

A) A situation where you want specific traits and use top-end parts to create a truly high-end guitar that's exactly how you want it. But even that's a crapshoot, because nobody knows how it will feel and sound until all those expensive parts are flying in formation or,

B) You buy a bunch of guitars because this one has great neck, you love the neck pickup on this one, This body has nice contours and a nice sound... and then take the best parts from all the guitars to assemble one super guitar. That's how my Esquire came to be.

This practice of people parting out guitars on eBay, only to have them reassembled with like components by others just seems silly to me.

And interestingly - after playing for decades and having built, modded, upgraded and who knows what else to many, many guitars guess what? My core of my three "go to" axes that are my favorites are all <drum roll...> bone stock. I bought them because they played and sounded great, and guess what? They still do. I've never really had any success in upgrading a mediocre guitar into "something special." IMVHO, they're either born with it or they ain't.

Like, no matter how much you spend upgrading a Corvette, it will never be a Ferrari.


Of course, there are irrational reasons to do it.

YMMV

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Offshore, I think you summed it up quite nicely. I was never into assembling from parts because I am not a particularly handy person. However, Strats and Teles are pretty simple for a guy like me. Mind you, I left the final setup to a pro.

My Strat Partscaster was built because of Situation A, as you outlined it. I couldn't quite get what I wanted from Fender. Well, that's not entirely true. I COULD get what I wanted from the Custom Shop, after mortgaging the house sending the wife back to work. I wanted a reasonably light Strat with a maple neck with a 12" radius. Not a big deal, you say? Almost all the Strats on the wall weighed a ton, at least the MIA Strats. Being Canadian, I insist on Fender MIA (wait, that makes no sense. Oh well).

I have told the whole boring story here many times before so I will be brief. My StratoPartscaster includes:

- a rather light two-piece alder body in Sonic Blue (it is an Yngie Malmsteen Artist Series body, but please don't tell anyone)
- Eric Johnson maple neck with a 12 inch radius and really nice soft V profile, a bit on the thick side without being a baseball bat.
- Wilkinson bridge
- Sheptone pickups - very chimey and rich with a nice bottom end

That would have cost me a bundle from the CS but the total, when all the dust cleared, was about $1200 for what is the best Strat I have ever played, with the exception of a very sweet 1961 Seafoam Green I owned when I was young and stupid (well, stupid-er). That is not just my opinion. Most people who play it just love it.

Not only that, the combination of the Yngwie body and the Eric Johnson Neck make me play and sound just like Eric Johnson, if he were Swedish and arrogant. Ok, that's not true, but the rest is.

I'll offer you my two cents, food for thought:

If spending money is your main concern, find a guitar that's close to what you want and buy that. Piecing one together won't save you money! Trust me on this, others have posted the same response. There is a reason Fender can sell guitars with the appointments they have at the prices they charge... They buy in bulk and have the facilities and tools.

If, IF, however you HAVE to have certain details, then piece that baby together with EXACTLY what you want. That's the only way to do it. But, we're dealing with wood here so there's NO guarantee it's gonna "sing".

I too have OCD when it comes to my equipment, and have learned over the years that you have to take each piece on its own accord. Meaning, each guitar is a world unto itself. Currently I'm searching for a neck to put on my Thinline Bigsby Tele. It is a dark sounding setup so I've done numerous things to brighten it up to what I want to hear. Really, it'd probably be easier to just ditch the whole project and start something else. But sometimes I'm a glutton for punishment. It has been an uphill battle THE WHOLE way, nothing has been easy... But I'm sticking with it and will see it through.

As to your question on necks and bodies? MIM bodies are basically the same as MIA bodies, but pay attention to the bridges. My suggestion would be to find a body you like, already the color you like, and just change the trem block. The GFS blocks are good, I've used one, it really livened up the guitar I used it on. BUT!!! Measure twice before ordering. Pickguards, necks, and other hardware will fit just fine on an MIM body. The bridge is where it gets weird. Pay attention, order the right parts, you'll be fine.

You can change every part on a Strat, that's a blessing and a curse. Ease of modification is what makes them fun to work on. Let me warn you though that if you start with crap or "just ok", you won't get great. You'll get a slightly better guitar.

So, ask yourself what exactly you want. What do you want? Is it just the look of a big headstock with 22 frets? If it is, find a good Strat and order a new neck for it. If, however, there are other things you want, then you'll need a different game plan. OA has a great suggestion of buying a couple guitars and assembling a guitar out of all the best parts. Eric Clapton did that, and I think he did ok... :D

I'm not trying to dissuade you from your idea, just wanted to share some ideas. I've built, modded, sold, re-bought, resold, built some more, modded differently, banged my head against the wall... It's both fun and frustrating. The biggest thing I've learned is that spending money is part of the game. You can make some back by selling off parts you don't need, but at the end of the day, you ain't gonna save a buck by building yourself. When all is said and done, you are gonna spend about the same as buying.

Chuck,

All very good points.

Don't worry about dissuading me from anything. I really value the insights from those who have done this and can give me some real-world assessment of cost and other logistical recommendations.

I can make up my own mind, but good, experienced information helps me make a good decision. I appreciate all the input from everyone.

Don't laugh. This is true stuff I'm about to say.

Over the years of repairing, building custom one of a kind types, refurbishing, and just flat out catering to the whims of the customers, I've learned this: The vast majority of guitar players are gear obsessed. They will spend countless dollars on instruments, accessories, amps, and then will modify them both to the point that neither would ever pass for the original in most cases. This obsession paid well though and I never really complained if a customer wanted a different set of pickups in his brand new, never even played it yet, guitar. The customer "knew" that the stock pickups were wrong. Though he never even plugged it in, he knew. OK. So I just smiled and installed the new fancy stuff he wanted. Most times he didn't want the stock parts. I often got a "Naw, you keep that stuff if ya want." response.

As a result of the many customers taking perfectly good parts off their instruments and tossing their "trash" at me when I was done installing the "good" parts, I accumulated quite a pile of parts. As a result of having this mass of parts I began to assemble guitars from them for sale. Some bodies I'd buy, others I'd build, but overall I was able to build dozens of "parts guitars" from the leftovers tossed at me. I'd scribe the shop's name on the headstock and make it overly clear that it was nothing but an assembled in house instrument for sale and not representative of any brand. And they sold well. Often by those that were accomplished musicians that cared little for the brand but rather confined their efforts their playing and learning to be better at it. They could care less if it wasn't a '62 this or a '59 that. They were guitar players.

So, if one has the desire to put one together, I say go for it. Just a couple years ago my buddy across the road was looking to build his first partscaster and I had an old Lotus knockoff that was hanging up in the back of my building here. It was given to me by a guy that didn't want it. My neighbor learned on this instrument in how to build one up from parts. Lots of mistakes (easily corrected with a little advice) and he ended up with a good playing guitar he rebuilt from parts. It's now part of his growing collection and he's quite proud of his accomplishment. And after all, it was made from parts that were tossed at me by those that didn't want them.:smile:

Unless you want to paint and set one up from parts from Watmoth or USACG, I wouldn't advise it. If you do the Warmoth or USACG route you can customize your own setup and have a Nitro finished guitar for far cheaper than you could buy one new, but there's no guarantee that it'll turn out like you wanted. You'd also have the satisfaction of doing it yourself. I did one Warmoth Tele and mine turned out great.

I could've bought an awesome top of the line MIM Tele for the price though, maybe even a used USA Tele.

Rolling your own is a whole nuther beast. Certainly not cheaper than buying one but it's an absolute trip when you finish it.

Forgot to say best of luck and have fun, because it is fun to do. My previous post seems like I'm a "Debby Downer", I was actually being Frank... LOL

I posted that stuff, which you seem to get, because I've had some people come to me and then be disappointed. They think I make everything, which I don't. I consider myself more like a guy who hotrods. Find something nice and then tweak and tune.

I have done a CRAPLOAD of these.....casters....SG's...franken Pauls....bass guitars.....semi hollows.....I will "MAD SCIENTIST" anything.

SMITTY....find a low dollar cast of Squire, shite man you can score them for well under 100.00 HELL you can get a new bullet for 99.00 when G.C. is having a sale. Hit ebay and get whatcha want....for pennies on the dollar and have fun. Hell P.M. me (we can do that now) I may even have some bits and bobs I would send ya........I put a Gibby p-90 in a strat once......
http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/...psdf619e25.jpg

that Surftastic little RIPPEr started life as a black "Starcaster" by Fender ....bought for 70.00

Volume, thanks for the offer. I may take you up on that at some point.

Right now, I'm getting info together. I've also made a personal commitment not to get any major gear items until I've replaced the flooring in our living room. Since my Les Paul and Stratocaster were actually gifts from my wife, I figure she deserves the next major purchase!

This is pretty much the way I roll, though. I usually start soliciting information on a project well in advance of doing it. So, financially I'm not ready to jump, but it's the right time to start getting good information and advice. I considered posing this same question to the folks over at Strat-Talk, to see what they say, but in this single thread I've gotten several good responses from experienced people who have already done what I'm planning, so I may not have to inquire at another forum. Besides, things move so quickly at Strat-Talk, a thread can quickly get buried and go largely unnoticed.

When I built my T style and S style guitars it was all about the neck. I wanted big soft V vintage style neck with tall skinny frets. That's partially why I didn't consider a Fender neck.

Also, USACG necks can cost less than used Fender necks (if you finish them, dress the frets and cut the nut yourself).

I built the "Tele" first. The Baja Tele didn't exist yet so I built it using a USACG body and neck, mostly Fender '52 reissue hardware and Fralin pickups. I tried several sets of pickups (bought used then re-sold) before deciding on a new set of Fralins. The guitar weighs about 6-1/2 pounds, plays like a dream and sounds like a Tele should. I got lucky and this neck and body seem to be made for each other, tonally- they are as one.
This guitar is my "number one". It cost me about $800 to build about 10 years ago.

The "Strat" is/was an early Highway 1 Strat that I found the neck to be too small on but saw promise in otherwise. I sold the original neck for what I paid for the USACG neck, sold the bridge and replaced it with a Callaham (it was cheaper than they are now back then) and installed a set of Fralin pickups that I've had for a long time (I put the originals in a kit guitar that my son and I built).
This guitar cost $500 new (I had a coupon), I broke even on the neck, paid about $50 out of pocket for the bridge, I don't recall what Fralin pickups cost back in the late '90s ($175 for the set?) and then there was the cost of tuners, '50s style pick guard, etc...
I probably cost me about $800 or so.
Again, it plays great and sounds like a good Strat (though it's not as great as the Tele, tonally).

Considering the quality of these guitars, I did save money compared to similar instruments (but, as I mentioned above, you have to do the neck work yourself).

BTW, I wouldn't bother building these if it wasn't so darn fun!

I went back and tinted the Strat's neck since this pic.
http://images.lilypix.com/albums/use.../strattele.jpg
http://images.lilypix.com/albums/use...t_head_600.jpg
http://images.lilypix.com/albums/use...7/100_8599.JPG
http://images.lilypix.com/albums/use...7/100_8598.JPG

WOW those are awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tommy at USACG is a great guy.

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Originally Posted by Volumeknob

WOW those are awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Thanks. Best of all, it wasn't hard to do.

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Originally Posted by Don

When I built my T style and S style guitars it was all about the neck. I wanted big soft V vintage style neck with tall skinny frets. That's partially why I didn't consider a Fender neck.

Also, USACG necks can cost less than used Fender necks (if you finish them, dress the frets and cut the nut yourself).

I built the "Tele" first. The Baja Tele didn't exist yet so I built it using a USACG body and neck, mostly Fender '52 reissue hardware and Fralin pickups. I tried several sets of pickups (bought used then re-sold) before deciding on a new set of Fralins. The guitar weighs about 6-1/2 pounds, plays like a dream and sounds like a Tele should. I got lucky and this neck and body seem to be made for each other, tonally- they are as one.
This guitar is my "number one". It cost me about $800 to build about 10 years ago.

The "Strat" is/was an early Highway 1 Strat that I found the neck to be too small on but saw promise in otherwise. I sold the original neck for what I paid for the USACG neck, sold the bridge and replaced it with a Callaham (it was cheaper than they are now back then) and installed a set of Fralin pickups that I've had for a long time (I put the originals in a kit guitar that my son and I built).
This guitar cost $500 new (I had a coupon), I broke even on the neck, paid about $50 out of pocket for the bridge, I don't recall what Fralin pickups cost back in the late '90s ($175 for the set?) and then there was the cost of tuners, '50s style pick guard, etc...
I probably cost me about $800 or so.
Again, it plays great and sounds like a good Strat (though it's not as great as the Tele, tonally).

Considering the quality of these guitars, I did save money compared to similar instruments (but, as I mentioned above, you have to do the neck work yourself).

BTW, I wouldn't bother building these if it wasn't so darn fun!

I went back and tinted the Strat's neck since this pic.
http://images.lilypix.com/albums/use.../strattele.jpg
http://images.lilypix.com/albums/use...t_head_600.jpg
http://images.lilypix.com/albums/use...7/100_8599.JPG
http://images.lilypix.com/albums/use...7/100_8598.JPG

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Very very nice, man!!! Very tasteful.

pointer
http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/...psik61ggmn.jpg

Perhaps the pointers are looking for YOU!

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Originally Posted by smitty_p

Chuck,

All very good points.

Don't worry about dissuading me from anything. I really value the insights from those who have done this and can give me some real-world assessment of cost and other logistical recommendations.

I can make up my own mind, but good, experienced information helps me make a good decision. I appreciate all the input from everyone.

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I have done this very thing of which you speak, with great success!. The neck pocket needed a little sanding and I had to fill the mounting holes in the neck, so used bushings and machine screws. Shimmed the neck with a Fender extra heavy pick to get close action and keep the bridge saddles low, for better bend-ability and tremolo tuning recovery, but what do I know?
;>)/