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I have a 2004 MIM Std. Strat with the 6-screw tremolo. What is the cheapest way to upgrade my Trem block to USA standards? Can I just buy a nicer Trem block and screw it on or do I have to buy a whole new Trem assembly from a place like GuitarFetish.com? If so, which one will fit my MIM Strat?
Thanks for any guidance, LB.
www.callahamguitars.com has a trem block or whole trem made to fit those. not cheap though. www.guitarfetish.com I think not sure , you would have to ask them sell a wilkinson trem witha steel block.cheap No I see the Wilkinson guitar fetish sells are vintage U.S. spec. good deal for MIM classic though.
So from the site you provided (thanks!) it looks like $60 + shipping for a steel block BUT it will only fit a "10-32" USA Trem arm so I'll have to buy one of those also? LB
EDIT: I now see the block with arm for $75.... LB
The MIM Standards have a slightly narrower bridge, and so a full upograde to MIA spec would involve routing the body to get a MIA trem to fit... a lot of work and expense.
The Callaham steel block upgrade is available for either the MIA or MIM blocks... be aware of the two different sizes. Another upgrade option (which is cheaper and better imho) is the Wilkinson trem... comes with whole bridge as a replacement, not just the block.
Either upgrades is worthwhile, though... I've got one MIM Standard with the Callaham and another (well, my son's actually) with the Wilkinson, and both are significant improvements on the stock MIM trem with the floppy arm.
-Mark
Where would I find this Wilkinson Trem assembly that fits my MIM Std Strat?
Will one of those Wilkinson Trem assemblies at guitarfetish.com fit my MIM std Strat? If so, which one should I order? thanks, LB.
I don't think the guitar fetish one fits the MIM. At least the one they had last time I looked didn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveBandit
The version of the Wilkinson I got was a MightyMite licenced one... I got it off eBay. It's a bit confusing with the Wilkinsons, because there are "real" versions and the "licensed" versions. The licensees offer different models with different model numbers, so it gets a a bit confusing.
This one looks like it may be the right size (although this particular one's in black):
http://cgi.ebay.com/WILKINSON-VINTAG...QQcmdZViewItem
Look for the "elongated holes"... it makes it fit both string spacings. The gotoh licensed one offered by guitar fetish doesn't have this.
-Mark
Ya it is a little confusing because else where on Callahams site the discription of that block states , comes with arm inculed, expensive yes, maybe worth buying the whole assembly , all of his parts are better than most. Guitar fetish does have the wilkson that fit a MIM standard ,but I do not like the look of them ,I think they are 2 point.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveBandit
Here is the Callaham Mexican upgrade Trem block compared to my 2004 MIM Trem block.
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x...n/HPIM0766.jpg
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x...n/HPIM0765.jpg
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x...n/HPIM0764.jpg
The Callaham is steel vs. zinc for the 2004 MIM. The Callaham feels 2 to 3 times heavier. I must admit the MIM one seems to resonate more when flicked with your finger nail, though, giving out a nice "ping". I had to buy the Trem handle from Callaham also if I wanted it to fit the threads. The whole thing was $75 plus shipping. The Callaham handle is nice and stiff and has a lower profile for fitting in the case better while attached.
I gotta go buy strings to do an acoustic and electric tone comparison.......sorry. Stay tuned if you care....
LB
No need to stay tuned here.... I already know, having replaced a zinc block with a Callaham steel block a while back.
I think you'll hear it and be happy.
I'll tell ya one thing for certain, my Strat just got a GOOD bit heavier....Dayuuuum.
Should I put some teflon tape on the Trem handle threads or no?
LB
I did, but I didn't use the Callaham handle... I've got a custom-cut handle I really like, and the teflon tape was a helpful with the new block.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveBandit
Wow.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveBandit
I never realized there was such a physical difference.
I've noticed the skinny blocks inside of Godins. They use a rear cover with a big slot for string access, so the whole block is visible.
The MIM blocks were "upgraded" sometime between 2004 and now - right? Does anyone have a pic of an upgraded MIM Trem block? Is it bigger or just the same size but steel now or what? Anybody?
Thanks, LB
Actually, this is wrong. As a proud owner of two of these Wilkinson vintage-style bridges I can tell you they do not fit a MIM Strat. They are built to fit a vintage routed Strat only. The elongated holes are meant to provide a smoother pivot on a traditional six-screw design. You will notice that the leftmost screw hole is not elongated, in order to keep the tremolo from shifting from side-to-side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plugger
It may be possible to mount one of these on a MIM Strat, but if you do, the strings will be misaligned.
Vintage strats are routed with a 2 7/32" string spacing, and the six tremolo screws line up with each saddle.
All modern MIM and MIA Strats have a string spacing of 2 1/16", same as Gibson and PRS guitars. The MIA Strats have a 2-point knife-edge tremolo, whereas the MIM Strats still have a 6-screw tremolo reminiscent of the vintage guitars, but with the narrower saddles and string spacing.
Some replacement tremolo units, like the vintage Wilkinson models, are made to fit vintage strat routing (meant for 2 7/32" string spacing) but actually have a 2 1/8" or 2 1/16" string spacing at the saddles. This allows you to retrofit your vintage guitar with a modern string spacing. Unfortunately, you cannot retrofit a modern MIA or MIM with a vintage tremolo (at least, not without some drilling, and even then it probably won't work).
If you have an MIM Strat and you want a steel block to get it more along the lines of a vintage sound, your best bet is the Callaham block. There are other sources (like Allparts) for steel blocks to put on a vintage trem, but as far as I know, Callaham is the only game in town for a steel block that fits the MIM tremolo.
Just got back from the music store and slapped some strings on there. YEAH BUDDY. Much more sustain and note articulation although you seem to notice it more when strumming chords than playing notes. Just a more solid all around feel to it and it seems like it helped the tuning stability also although I re-lubed my string path so this benefit might be illusory. All-in-all I am quite pleased and consider it to be money well-spent. LB.
I, too, noticed better tuning stability... the greater mass of the block really seems to make a difference in that regard.
Definition, sustain, "stringiness:" all improved. And I thought my guitar couldn't get any better. :D
this is the "upgrade" block in my '06
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o...e/DSCF2486.jpg
I replaced this block with a steel one from Fleabay. The steel one sounds better to me, the stock one sounded darker
Thanks for the pic.....so it appears that the upgraded MIM Trem block is thicker than my '04 MIM (and heavier) and roughly the same dimensions as the Callaham but it still looks like zinc, not steel although I could be wrong since I haven't seen it in person.....
LB (now I can GAS for that titanium trem block) :bonk
Just to correct your correction, the licenced Wilkinson trem from MightyMite does indeed fit a MIM strat, and is advertised to do so. There are certainly other Wilkinson licenced trems that don't fit the MIM Standards, and you may have this type.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage
I've got two MIM Strats, one with a Callaham upgrade, the other with the Wiklinson licensed MightyMite. In both cases the string alignment is correct.
But there are Wilkinson licensed trems that are USA vintage spec that don't fit the MIMs, such as the Gotoh ones sold by GFS. GFS advertise these correctly, so if you read the fine print, you won't make a mistake, but other sellers may be less careful.
The MightyMite Wilkinson trem units that fit the MIM can also be used to retrofit a US strat to the narrower string spacing, BTW. These units are described as "universal fit" by MightyMite, which is another way to identify them. That's how mine was packaged and labelled.
-Mark
We may indeed be talking about two different things, but I can guarantee you that the eBay link you posted above will not fit a MIM Strat. That's the trem I have. The eBay posting may say "UNIVERSAL ELONGATED SCREW HOLES" but that is false advertising. There is no such thing as a "universal" tremolo. It should be obvious if you think about it -- the only way this would work is if the saddles could be moved from side-to-side as well, which is pretty much impossible. The elongated screw holes are simply to keep the trem from binding up on the screws, as you can see on the product sheet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plugger
The only units that MightyMite licenses from Wilkinson are the VS100 and VS50, which are really the models Wilkinson is known for, but they are not vintage style (read: six-screw) tremolos. They are fulcrum tremolos. One of those may very well fit a MIM Strat, so I would guess this is what you have. MightyMite's versions are found here. If you have found some other tremolo licensed by MightyMite, please try to scrounge up a link, as these were all I could find.
Sage,
This is getting a bit silly, and you seem like a nice guy, so I hope this doesn't get you too annoyed, but the facts are these (and facts can be stubborn things):
a) I have a 2 1/8" string spacing "universal elongated hole" model , six screw vintage style, Wilkinson designed, made by MightMite, which is packaged and advertised to fit both USA spec and MIM spec guitars. Obviously not one of the models shown on the page you posted the link to. It is identified on the packaging as model "WV6C".
b) It retrofitted into one of my MIM standard perfectly without any misalignment.
c) The elongated holes are indeed designed to prevent binding, but in this case they are also made to do double-duty to make them suitable for both hole spacing patterns. It's clever, and I suspect they may have had to experiment with the tolerances so they would fit both hole patterns and still stay centered, but it certainly works on my guitar. No need for "moving saddles".
d) In my case, it works as advertised, so I can't say it was false advertising for the unit I bought.
e) I also have a Callaham block in another MIM Standard, and, on balance, I prefer the Wilkinson unit. YMMV, of course.
I'm posting this not so much for the sake of arguing, but rather because I think it would be unfortunate if someone didn't buy a Wilkinson unit for their MIM simply because of this thread.
-Mark
Yes the MIM blocks are full size but made of zinc ,on the classics as well although the classic is vintage American spec. only zinc
Just a note on "full size" vs. "shrunken MIM block:"
The block I replaced was on a Gotoh bridge (the vintage style sold by Warmoth). It was a full size block, but non-ferrous (wouldn't hold a magnet), so was clearly zinc or whatever sintered alloy of zinc and other crap they they make those from.
The difference in response from the guitar was amazing and obvious from the first chord. So, in my experience, "full size" doesn't get it unless it's made of steel.
herumph!!
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravity Jim
I upgraded my MIM (**Classic 60's, not std**) with the full Callaham bridge since the original was lookin crusty, very different, MUCH better. The Callaham stuff is expensive, and rightly so, I've yet to find a better bridge. The block alone brings a guitar into a new light, note definition, clarity, sustain are all improved instantly. It sounds stupid to talk about it, but its another thing when you experience it. Kinda like a good tweed amp.
Leo used lead free steel for a reason, the clowns at CBS didn't care, and the people *outside of the Custom shop* at fender STILL don't care enough to change for the better.
Tuning stability is great, (I changed some other things too though,) she stays within a couple cents, even after my SRV impression, harmonic divebombs and all.
The "virtual pop in" arm is kinda strange at first, but with the lower profile I've taken a real liking to it, mine fits great, no need for teflon tape, and the threads are cut tight enough that the arm stays put when I move it to and fro.
Fewer and fewer things these days do you really get more when you pay more, Callaham is the exception to the rule. There's a REASON you have to wait 2 years to get a guitar from him.
I called and Bill picked up the phone. I asked about some other things to improve my guitar, and he was very forthcoming with suggestions, even after I specifically asked what he did when he made guitars, he gave me straight answers with no hesitation. He's a guy that wants your guitar to sound good, no bullshit.
Yep. A Callaham block was the cherry on the whipped cream on my Zencaster... a real good guitar before, but afterward a guitar that makes me stop and think, "Dang! I love this thing!" just about every time I pick it up.
The improved trem stability was an unexpected bonus, but it did remind me why Leo called it an "inertia block" in his design drawings.
Mark, don't worry, no harm no foul, we're all friends here, and you seem like a nice guy yourself, so no offense taken. But I hope you don't mind me responding as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plugger
I'm not arguing with point A. If your trem is a WV6C, then surely MightyMite manufactured (or at least rebranded) the WV6C at some point; I just couldn't find it anywhere on their website, nor anywhere else on the web, and you hadn't previously mentioned a model number, so I figured that if you had a different model then that would explain the confusion. But if you say you have a WV6C, then of course I'll take your word for it. I'm sorry if I made things more confusing.
But points B, C, and D are flat-out wrong. Either you don't have a standard MIM Strat, or your strings are misaligned. Maybe you haven't noticed because the error is so slight that it's not really noticeable, but the strings are off, and I can prove it with an examination of the mathematics involved:
At any point on the fretboard the space between the fretboard edge and first string should be equal to the space between the other fretboard edge and the sixth string. If you move the entire unit to the right (which is what happens when you mount this trem on a MIM Strat, because the leftmost hole is not elongated and therefore not adjustable) without narrowing the string spread, this equation is invalidated. Your low E is not as close to the fretboard edge as it should be, and the high E is closer to the fretboard edge than it ought to be.
Now, because the nut is aligned properly, the effect is mitigated because the strings are less out of alignment as you approach the nut; but the higher up on the fretboard you play, the more out of alignment the strings are. This is because your strings are not parallel to the neck, but are instead at an angle (albeit an extremely slight angle).
Like I said, maybe it's not noticeable because the error is so slight, and if you like it that way then there's nothing wrong with that. I'm only arguing the point because I don't want someone else to pick up a trem that doesn't actually fit his guitar, which is what you're recommending whether you realize it or not. It might seem perfectly fine to you, but the math doesn't lie. The fact is that there is no such thing as a universal tremolo.
And as you say, facts can be stubborn things.
I think this is where we disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage
The leftmost hole is not elongated like the other five, but there is still enough play in it to get it to align for either string width. Consider:
What's the difference between a 2 1/8" and a 2 3/16" spacing?
1/16"
Therefore whats's the (theoretical) difference in position between the leftmost hole's position on a 2 1/8" guitar or a 2 3/16" guitar?
1/32"
Is there enough play in the bridge design to adjust it 1/32" either way?
Yes. (At least on my bridge)
QED.
(That's what I was referring to above when I said they had figured out the tolerances in a clever way.)
If you still don't believe me, I'll post a pic...
-Mark
This turned into a nice little thread,
So lovebandit, now that you know everything you did and didn't want to know, what'd ya get?
So, hey -- if I wanted a Callaham steel block for my 2007 MIM Deluxe Player Strat, I'd get the Vintage Repro block, right?
Eh?
elicross, I think that's correct, but just ask Callaham... they're helpful folk.
Heh heh...yeah I bought the Callaham block and arm for 75 bucks. BIG difference in sustain and feel. I highly recommend that mod for a MIM Strat. LBQuote:
This turned into a nice little thread,
So lovebandit, now that you know everything you did and didn't want to know, what'd ya get?
Glad your happy. Makes a real difference though...
If it was snake oil, we'd be the first to let you know :salud: