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Thread: FMIC asleep @ the wheel again (ProJr)

  1. #1
    Forum Member JJ Gross's Avatar
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    FMIC asleep @ the wheel again (ProJr)

    So I'm playing away at a gig last night and my amp completely cuts out for about 10 seconds, them comes roaring back on. Never lost power and the power light was one, just went silent and came back. Played one more song and right near the end, the amp goes out again.

    I call a short break and run out to the truck to grab my spare PJ. That's the best thing about these little guys. I paid $200 for each of them and they fit on the floor in the back seat until needed. Nice. Second amp performs flawlessly all night.

    I opened up the silent PJ today and spy around in there and spot my problem, R32 (power resistor) is fried. Not blown up, but instead of measuring 2.7k it's something like 2M. It was a little spattery-looking with most of the pain scorched off so it had to go. Luckily, the PCB underneath is not damaged in any way that matters. A tiny little brown spot, but there's no trace on the other side so I'm not sweating it.

    Upon looking over the PCB I notice that the screened graphic for that resistor is a lot bigger than the actual component soldered in there. Since I need to refer to the schematic anyway I look at the power rating in addition to the R value. Sure enough - it calls for a 2W and it came from the factory with a 1W soldered in there. I dig through my stash and find a nice big honking 3W Allen Bradley CC from my stash of salvaged parts, test it to verify the color code (it tests at 2.75k) and pop it in there. I also mount it nice & high up off the PCB with about 1/4" of space under it - unlike the original which was soldered tight down on the board. Amp fires right up and sounds awesome as usual.

    So now my list of Fender goofs on this amp includes not only the bundling of AC/signal/output wires together and not twisting the heaters, but a power resistor half as stout as it should be. This may be a one-off mistake, but if you have one of these, take a look at R32 and make sure it's a nice big fat 2W or better resistor, not a skinny little thing like the 1W original that popped in mine.

    I still love these amps, don't get me wrong. I just can't believe a company like Fender would manufacture something with so many little easy to fix design goofs in it. Of course it was built to a price point, but come on. A total of about $1 fix the issues to double reliability? And not do them at the factory?

    Just another excuse to build an 18W or something in one of these I guess. Not like that's a bad thing.

    Cheers,
    - JJ
    "I bet your Momma was a tent-show Queen ..."

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    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: FMIC asleep @ the wheel again (ProJr)

    You get what you pay for.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Re: FMIC asleep @ the wheel again (ProJr)

    But who would pay for it if they knew Fender was using out-of-spec components to shave cost, and that the amp might give out at any time because of that?

    That's not getting what you pay for. Whatever the street price of the amp, you shouldn't have to worry about whether or not it's fit for its stated purpose. Not even an amp built to a budget price point should die an early death because of a materials decision the manufacturer consciously made. If it does, you didn't get what you paid for -- or what you reasonably thought you were paying for, which amounts to the same thing.
    "I haven't slept for ten days...because that would be too long." -- Mitch Hedberg

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    Forum Member wingnut1's Avatar
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    Re: FMIC asleep @ the wheel again (ProJr)

    JJ, did you check the resistor in your other PJ. Was it a 2watt or another 1 watt. In the BJ it seems that most of the resistors are 1/2 watt.

  5. #5
    Forum Member Kap'n's Avatar
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    Re: FMIC asleep @ the wheel again (ProJr)

    Quote Originally Posted by elicross View Post
    But who would pay for it if they knew Fender was using out-of-spec components to shave cost, and that the amp might give out at any time because of that?
    Or they outsourced the boards to a third party that was trying to shave costs, or were out of the 2W resistors, and stuffed in there what they had.

    Of course, Fender QC should have caught that.
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    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: FMIC asleep @ the wheel again (ProJr)

    Quote Originally Posted by elicross View Post
    But who would pay for it if they knew Fender was using out-of-spec components to shave cost, and that the amp might give out at any time because of that?

    That's not getting what you pay for. Whatever the street price of the amp, you shouldn't have to worry about whether or not it's fit for its stated purpose. Not even an amp built to a budget price point should die an early death because of a materials decision the manufacturer consciously made. If it does, you didn't get what you paid for -- or what you reasonably thought you were paying for, which amounts to the same thing.
    +1, Eli!

    Sad to say but this ain' the first time I've heared of FMIC (dba "Fender" an' previously known throughout the world for amps so durable you could beet 'em like a rented mule) shaving corners to fatten up the bottom line for the suits runnin' the show in Corona.

    It prolly wouldn't be a bad idea for all of us to take a look-see inside any of these amps that we happen to own. A coupla minutes' worth of inspection an' preventative maintenance (if needed) might save a whole lotta grief down the road when it really counts.

    What izzit that them kewt leetle yeller Easter chicks say......?

    CHEEP CHEEP CHEEP!

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  7. #7
    Forum Member JJ Gross's Avatar
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    Re: FMIC asleep @ the wheel again (ProJr)

    Quote Originally Posted by wingnut1 View Post
    JJ, did you check the resistor in your other PJ. Was it a 2watt or another 1 watt. In the BJ it seems that most of the resistors are 1/2 watt.
    Both my PJs are Mexican origin. The one with the tiny R32 that blew is of unknown date of manufacture. The other one (the replacement last night) has a little 60th Anniv. Diamond emblem on the back of it. That one has a larger R32 (same value) in place.

    Physical size of the resistors in question are:
    Blown = 10.5mm long, metal film type
    Good = 14.9mm long, metal film type
    Clearance in there is tight so it's kind of awkward to get a diameter measurement with my digital calipers but they're roughly proportionate in diameter compared to length.

    Most of the others in the amps are 1/2W, but both use larger ones in the power section. One just wasn't quite large enough by the look of it.

    I'm not really all that bent out of shape about this since it's a small amp that can be easily tweaked. It's great for what I need & for a grand total of about $250 (used + a few simple tweaks) be powerful enough to gig with while getting great sound. I WOULD be pissed if I paid UberBuxDelux for some Booteek amp and found this inside. REAL pissed.

    Eventually both my PJs will be rebuilt into hard wired amps and the PCBs sold. I don't want anyone to think I'm trashing Fender amps. I have several and love every one of them, even the HRDx. I'm just pointing out a flaw I discovered from the factory that should have been caught during final inspection. Like I said, this might be a one-off goof. If not, maybe my posting about it will help others pinpoint similar problems in their amps.


    Cheers,
    - JJ
    "I bet your Momma was a tent-show Queen ..."

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    Forum Member yankeerob's Avatar
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    Re: FMIC asleep @ the wheel again (ProJr)

    No worries about trashing Fender amps - I'm starting to get a steady stream of disgruntled geetar slingers - particularly HRDx owners - and I hasten to add that it's largely by virtue of it's being such a popular amp in terms of units sold - who want something 'custom built' out of them because 'they can't quite get what they want out of the clean ch' and 'they never use the dirt channel anyway'... - the one I'm doing at the moment is a version of the 5E3 circuit with 6n3c's (russky mil spec 6L6GT's) where we're having to use a sag resistor and thermistor (thank you TJ) on the SS recto to give it some tweed vibe(our transformer guy is also going to come up with little 3A 5V trannies as a bolt-on for tube rectifiers but he's having hard enough time keeping up with our wish list as it is... we're just happy that he's getting what we really need to us so we can keep payin' the rent )

    I can't thank all the guys here enough - you all know who you are - firstly for supporting me through my first build and for sharing info when needed - and I promise to share that 5E3 circuit - which is pretty much based on the Kap's schematic - but changed here and there as you wind up having to do when you start friggin around with these things - largely down to what actually happens when you convert an idea on paper into the practical reality of plugging it in and switching it on...

    I didn't know 'jack' until I started hangin' around here and now am in the very privileged position of - by virtue of my enthusiasm for all things 'tube' and 'amplifier' - of having a kind and patient guiding hand in the way of a partner who's 15 yrs my senior (who keeps one eye on his bench and one on mine) - and between us we have a business that seems to be growing - because the Fender logo on an amp used to mean something... but sadly - doesn't anymore with few exceptions... good luck with 'em any road, JJ... I feel your pain
    If I could find a road to get away it wouldn't be too soon....... Shipwreck Moon.......

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    Forum Member NTBluesGuitar's Avatar
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    Re: FMIC asleep @ the wheel again (ProJr)

    Quote Originally Posted by yankeerob View Post
    ...we're having to use a sag resistor and thermistor (thank you TJ) on the SS recto to give it some tweed vibe...
    That's why I'm a big fan of Copper Caps...covers all those bases for use with the SS rectified PTs. I'm a big fan of these cheap Fender amps because they're just ripe for some serious upgrades.

    But, with all the documented failures of similar components and joints in these amps, I wonder why they aren't addressed? The Hot Rod Deluxe/Deville got a PCB upgrade with better input jacks (not all the way across, mind you), but why aren't the power resistors looked at?

    Kind of interesting how these 'throw away' amps are 'best sellers' nowadays.
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    that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
    shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."

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    Forum Member yankeerob's Avatar
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    Re: FMIC asleep @ the wheel again (ProJr)

    I have a theory - well in part anyway - firstly - we all know the old linear taper pot in the master vol trick - I for one - fell for that little wopper... I wanted to try the Ashdown stuff and the fella got a HRDx out to 'try as a comparison'... I wound up buying a S/H HRDv and you guys know the rest - but during the festival season - over here anyway - all you see on the stages are HR series amps - I mean it's like they're giving 'em away backstage (rub's chin ruefully - hmmm... mabe they are.....)
    If I could find a road to get away it wouldn't be too soon....... Shipwreck Moon.......

  11. #11
    Forum Member Kap'n's Avatar
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    Re: FMIC asleep @ the wheel again (ProJr)

    Quote Originally Posted by yankeerob View Post
    I promise to share that 5E3 circuit - which is pretty much based on the Kap's schematic - but changed here and there as you wind up having to do when you start friggin around with these things - largely down to what actually happens when you convert an idea on paper into the practical reality of plugging it in and switching it on...
    I'd love to see it. Of course mine's been boogered with since then, too. I wonder if there's any convergence.
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    Forum Member wingnut1's Avatar
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    Re: FMIC asleep @ the wheel again (ProJr)

    JJ, I love that you went from a silverface Twin to playing a PJ. Must save a lot of wear and tear on your back. I'm assuming that you have to mic it to get the volume you need. You need to come over and try out the 5E3 I just built and the Halle that I finished since the last time you were over.

  13. #13
    Forum Member yankeerob's Avatar
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    Re: FMIC asleep @ the wheel again (ProJr)

    Will do Kap - try and jot a few things down tomorrow while I've got it in front of me - it's nearly there - got a little 'slushy noise' which I'm sure is somewhere around that first tube somewhere - I've gone back to 25uF in that V1 cathode cap and I'm pretty sure it's something stupid around that first tube - if these local yokels would stop sticking 600W into their 150W PA cabs I might get a chance to have a look at it
    If I could find a road to get away it wouldn't be too soon....... Shipwreck Moon.......

  14. #14
    Forum Member JJ Gross's Avatar
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    Re: FMIC asleep @ the wheel again (ProJr)

    Quote Originally Posted by wingnut1 View Post
    JJ, I love that you went from a silverface Twin to playing a PJ. Must save a lot of wear and tear on your back. I'm assuming that you have to mic it to get the volume you need. You need to come over and try out the 5E3 I just built and the Halle that I finished since the last time you were over.
    HUGE difference between hauling a 112# SF-UL-JBL-135W-TR vs. a 15# PJ.
    Yeah I mic it through the PA with just a hair back in the floor monitors. Sounds bigger than you might imagine. Ruby Starr's (RIP) former guitarist 'Mr. G' came into the club I was playing this past Saturday and was making the "WTF?! face" and pointing at my amp shaking his head. Stick a good mic (I use a Sennheiser e609) in front of these things and they're extremely giggable. I think they produce just about the perfect volume level for stage monitoring as long as the bass player doesn't get too full of himself.

    I also built almost all my own effects and that gives me another level of tweaking control in my sound.

    I'd love to check out your 5E3. I have a bunch of donor parts I'm planning on using for a 5E3 build. I'm on Powersports sales and work 6 days/week every week so Sunday is my only day to goof off if there's no Honey-Do list items to cover.

    Cheers,
    - JJ
    "I bet your Momma was a tent-show Queen ..."

  15. #15
    Forum Member JJ Gross's Avatar
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    Re: FMIC asleep @ the wheel again (ProJr)

    D-OH! Double post!

    Never mind.
    "I bet your Momma was a tent-show Queen ..."

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