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Thread: Yet Another Straplock Thread

  1. #1
    Forum Member davey's Avatar
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    Yet Another Straplock Thread

    Sorry if this doesn't exactly belong here but since I smashed a perfectly good straplock I'm going to post it everywhere.

    On another forum there was a debate about straplocks. I've not been shy about my use and dislike of Dunlops or my preference for Schallers.

    Another forum member claimed that Schallers disintigrated on him while playing and posted these pics as proof.

    http://www.inaneasylum.org/users/8nt...nschaller1.jpg
    http://www.inaneasylum.org/users/8nt...nschaller2.jpg
    http://www.inaneasylum.org/users/8nt...ngplunger2.jpg
    http://www.inaneasylum.org/users/8nt...ngplunger1.jpg


    Out of the 20 or so years of using straplocks and seeing things as a working musician I'd never seen anything like that kind of damage from ordinary use. So I decided to do my own test.

    First, I dropped a strap with Schallers from shoulder height- I'm around 5'8" and there was no visible damage.

    Second I took the strap and gripped it about half way down (the strap set at about 53") and slammed one straplock against the concrete floor at full strength. There was still no visible damage to the straplock

    Third I gripped the strap at the end and swung the strap at the concrete floor at full strength and full length. Again, no visible damage to the straplock.

    I posted my results and had another drink and congratulated myself on a good choice in straplocks.

    But after that other drink I decided to find out just what it would take to completely destroy a Schaller straplock unit. So I got out a 1 lb claw hammer and proceeded to pound the **** out of the straplock unit. After the first strike, the plunger assembly came off. It took a total of 7 blows with the 1 lb claw hammer to break the unit- and even then, the cup came off of the backing but it neither collapsed the cup nor broke it into pieces as the first pictures showed.

    I would assume that a full force whack with a 1 lb claw hammer FAR exceeds normal usage, not to mention 7.


    Pics.



    The Count witnessed the carnage:



    For comparison here's some wear and tear on some old Dunlop units:


    Last edited by davey; 01-06-2007 at 11:19 AM.
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  2. #2
    Forum Member Timbo's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    It's just like watching mythbusters
    'Alton Towers - Where the magic never ends', or so the commercial says. Imagine my disappointment when it closed at 7.30

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    Forum Member hudpucker's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    I dunno...I've SEEN Schallers fail before. And I've had absolutely no problems with Dunlops in many years on many guitars.


    My testimonial can beat up yours.
    Tone is in the fingers, eh? Let's hear your Vox, Marshall and Fender fingerings then...

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    Forum Member Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    Well, I moght as well post it here too.

    The only Dunlop "failures" I've ever seen were purely operator error.

    The mechanism in use for dunlops is industry standard for locking pins. Don't believe me? google "locking pins" and see for yourself.

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    Forum Member ronworld's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    I gigged the Dunlops for ten years on 2 guitars. Never had a failure or so much as a hiccup.. I only stopped using them because I wanted to go anti-mod.
    Way to go Davey! good testing now about those 70's three screw Strat necks!
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    Forum Member Don's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by hudpucker View Post
    I dunno...I've SEEN Schallers fail before. And I've had absolutely no problems with Dunlops in many years on many guitars.


    My testimonial can beat up yours.
    In 20 years of use I've never had a Schaller stroplock "fail" although I have had them come loose (not since I started putting Locktite on them though).

    I suppose the same thing would happen to Dunlops (or any other mechanical device) without occasional inspection.

  7. #7
    Forum Member Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Don View Post
    I suppose the same thing would happen to Dunlops (or any other mechanical device) without occasional inspection.
    That's the key with everything in life

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    Forum Member rudutch's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    I have had schallers 'lock nut' (where you tighten it to the strap) come loose, and the occational 'squeeking'
    no other issues. I think I have them on 6 guitars
    do I look like I know what I'm doing?

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    Forum Member DoobieK's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilko View Post
    That's the key with everything in life
    I agree. A quick inspection occasionally should be performed on starplocks, buttons and really the whole guitar. 8 lbs hanging on your shoulder, swinging for hundreds of hours, being taken on and off will eventually wear things out.

    I use the larger PRS strap buttons on the upper bouts of my guitars and a home made large washer/sleeve/screw at the other end. My straps aren't going anywhere and they don't stick out or creak like the Dunlops/Schallers.

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    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    I've had Schallers fail resulting in a bounced Strat.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Forum Member rudutch's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore Angler View Post
    I've had Schallers fail resulting in a bounced Strat.
    ouch, hope it missed your foot
    do I look like I know what I'm doing?

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    Forum Member Don's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore Angler View Post
    I've had Schallers fail resulting in a bounced Strat.
    I'd better check the set on my Les Paul. They don't bounce like Strats!

  13. #13
    Forum Member davey's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    For anyone that's seen or experienced Schallers "failing..."

    How exactly did it "fail?"

    As I relatively conclusively proved (by my standards) that the metal in a Schaller is not going to fail under normal or even abnormal usage circumstances. If a guitar fell off with Schallers it either wasn't screwed into the wood properly or the nut came undone. Neither of which can be considered the unit "failing."

    Too much stuff can cause the Dunlop unit to fail. And I mean "fail." I mean it clicks in and appears to be properly seated. Think of what supports the weight of your guitar with the Dunlops. Either 2 or 4 ball bearings in a trough. Not big ball bearings, little ball bearings. Think of the surface area that is actually making contact and holding the guitar in place. Those 2 or 4 tiny ball bearings. Other than that, the shaft of the unit being wedged into the female end is the other load bearing "mechanism."

    What can it take to make the Dunlop unit fail? Dirt in the trough of the female end, a non functioning ball bearing, not being seated properly, wear on the shaft causing it to tilt sideways (as pictured in my first post).

    What does it take to make a Schaller unit fail? The spring on the plunger has to not work AND the plunger needs to be disengaged from the female end AND the instrument has to rise up above the cup for the instrument to be removed from the cup. Or the metal has to shatter.
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    Forum Member stratcat62's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    I used Shallers for nearly 10 years and Dunlops about as long. Neither has ever given me any problems and I really don't have a preference. Both require you to be certain they are properly latched, but I'm confident with either. Both INMHO are good products and highly recommended.
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    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    I've had three different failure modes on Shallers.

    1) Nut came off and strap came free from straplock

    2) Straplock got turned on strap, and open end was pointing down. Guitar worked loose.

    3) Foreign object in mechanism - probably worn off piece of plating, causing it not to engage properly.

    Result - I no longer use any kind of lock and problems have gone away.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Forum Member DrQuist's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    As a person who has been in the repair business since 1972 ...I see far more failure in the Dunlop/Nova systems than any other lock .

    The Bearings freeze , or fail .... and then the lock pops out .

    I have seen Schallers fail .... but there is wear on that button ... I can't believe that the owner of that lock did not see the plating wearing off and the deformed shape of the button ...This is in reality standard .... it was used a lot .
    So I must ask ,.......How many years were those on the guitar before that happened ? Does the owner of the guitar leap around ala Pete Townshend ? Or do they stand like a statue ?

    Seems to me ... you need to inspect your gear from time to time .
    Guys who jump out of planes do this every times they use a chute .

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    Forum Member IplayforJC's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    I use both but have a preference towards Dunlops. Not a problem with either brand.
    Nice to meet you.

  18. #18
    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    Dr.Quist, inspecting your gear is great, but often not realistic when gigging. Quite often, there just isn't time. You buy good reliable stuff, and have a plan B for when it breaks. That's about all you can do. Stuff breaks during gigs. You deal with it.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Forum Member lure555's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    When you have thousands of dollars invested in your gear, someone has to inspect it. I'm not sure you can consider a nut loosening a "failure." It doesn't take long to check it. A quick glance as you're putting on the strap and you're done. When the alternative is watching as an instrument you've spent a lot of time and money on go crashing to the ground, it's not that inconvenient.

  20. #20
    Forum Member Kap'n's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by lure555 View Post
    When you have thousands of dollars invested in your gear, someone has to inspect it. I'm not sure you can consider a nut loosening a "failure." It doesn't take long to check it. A quick glance as you're putting on the strap and you're done. When the alternative is watching as an instrument you've spent a lot of time and money on go crashing to the ground, it's not that inconvenient.
    Yep. I don't have a "guitar tech" or a "PA tech." Everything works because I put it together. When I put it together, I make sure everything works. If something needs attention, I deal with it then, or I make a note to take care of it after the gig.

    I've got the Schallers. The first time I put on the guitar at the gig, I make sure the U cup is facing the right way. If it isn't I turn it. If it is too easy to turn, I make note to tighten down the nut after the gig, and put clear nail polish on the threads as loktite. It's not rocket science, it's doing your job.
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    Forum Member axecollector's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    Just find a flat washer with an opening bigger than the inside of your strap peg, but smaller than the outside. Voila--instant straplock!

    I use these on all my guitars. They don't look real sexy, but they keep your axe around your shoulder, and not on the floor.

  22. #22
    Forum Member ziess's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fezz parka View Post
    +1 (Or 2 or 3 or 4...)

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    Forum Member Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread


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    Forum Member stratcat55's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    How in the world did our guitars ever survive without strap locks? I never had a strap button fail. Most of my guitars are 35+ years old and still in one piece. All you need is a half decent strap. (no I don't sit when I play)

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    Forum Member Kap'n's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by stratcat55 View Post
    How in the world did our guitars ever survive without strap locks? I never had a strap button fail. Most of my guitars are 35+ years old and still in one piece. All you need is a half decent strap. (no I don't sit when I play)
    But Les Paul obviously never stood up when he played his instrument.
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    Forum Member stratcat55's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    Ouch. Yeah but it's a Gibson. Never had one.

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    Forum Member Don's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    I've had good quality straps come off of guitars. That's why I use straplocks.

    On most Fender guitars the top horn strap pin is angled slightly downwards. A straplock is hardly needed.

    On most Gibsons it's not and they use a tiny nub of a strap pin. They fall off easy and break easy!

    I don't use straplocks on my T-Style. The guitar's pretty microphonic and I can hear them rattle through the amp plus, if it falls, it won't break.

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    Forum Member hudpucker's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Don View Post

    On most Fender guitars the top horn strap pin is angled slightly downwards. A straplock is hardly needed.

    I disagree; perhaps some are more...uh...animated than you are when playing out.
    Tone is in the fingers, eh? Let's hear your Vox, Marshall and Fender fingerings then...

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    Forum Member NeoFauve's Avatar
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  30. #30
    Forum Member stratcat55's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    A guy in my band use to use Wilco's bread bag clip thing method. It worked like a charm and as long as he had a sandwhich, he had a strap lock.

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    Forum Member carpboy's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    Fezz and Ziess;MMMMmmmm Grolsh!Where do I find Fisher?I`ve tried the grommets from the Grolsh on the one guitar that I have strap issues with.My Heritage H140 that I use a Gibson embossed strap with lets go from the neck side when I move the wrong way.The Grolsh locks help a lot but they usually come off,even if the strap does not.Fortunately,I have always been able to keep a good grip on my guitars and haven`t dropped them when the strap comes loose.I have used a Planet Waves locking strap with good results on my Strats,but I guess I need to get some Schallers for the H140.The Gibson leather strap look toooo cool,but keeps letting go.

  32. #32
    Forum Member Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    There's always the classic Dee Dee Ramone method:



    or as adopted by Billy Joe Armstrong:

    Last edited by Wilko; 01-10-2007 at 03:55 PM.

  33. #33
    Forum Member Dr. Jimmy's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    I don't like the Dunlops because they just stick out too far from the body, and they make a clunking sound which drives me up a wall.

    Schallers are awesome, but you have to tighten the snot out of the nut that attaches to the strap (use a 1/2" socket or wrench) plus a dab o' loctite helps. Also, I drill out the screw holes on the body, and fill them with a glued in dowel (1/4" in diameter or so) then I drill that to put the screws into. Makes it a bit sturdier.

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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    Does locktite go on before you put the nut on or after the nut is on and tight?

  35. #35
    Forum Member javlib's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    Put just a drop or two of locktight on the male threads before you apply the nut. The nut threads will pull the locktight around the periphery as it tightens in it's final resting place. This is the way this product is used in automotive type applications as well.

  36. #36
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    Another one for Grolsch straplocks.

  37. #37
    Forum Member Direstraits's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    Call me cheap ..( er maybe not) but I have used the tops of plastic 35mm film cans as strap locks for years with no "failures" - I've had one or two spring off which has given me a warning, but the strap has never come loose. I can't guarantee that this would work for the Pete Townshend Guitar School types.
    Method: cut a small hole in the centre of the lid with a craft knife then cut a cross shape through it extending further towards the sides of the lid. Press over strap button after strap has been fitted. ( You may need to experiment to get the size right. ... OK, So I am cheap but I wussed out & recently bought proper strap locks for my 3 most expensive guitars.

    When You point your finger 'cause your plan fell through, you've got 3 more fingers pointing back at you.

  38. #38
    Forum Member boobtube21's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    If your local liquor store doesn't carry Grolsch your local hardware store should have fender washers (no relation to Fender instruments). That's what I use on one of my guitars, and it's never failed me. Only thing is you really have to step up the screw size to a #10 or #12, but it'll never come out.

    In fact I've been meaning to get some more for my other guitars but never think about it unless I'm strapping up, which isn't that often as I play mostly acoustic these days, sitting down. I'm almost afraid to do it to my ES 335 anyway, I think think I would cry if I drilled into that thing. But then I wouldn't be happy if I dropped it on the ground either...

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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread


  40. #40
    Forum Member jes's Avatar
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    Re: Yet Another Straplock Thread

    +5 on the grolsch method. i usually go to the hardware store for rubber washers ($0.75) but actually the grolsch bottle gasket is better; stronger and thicker.
    my guitar comes on and off during a set cuz i play different things. never had problem since the rubber washer method was introduced ( i think joe strummer used to use the grolsch method also?)

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