Fender Forum Strat?

[fuel]

Hi all!

I really dig the wear on the Strat above, the Fender Forum title head. I heard it's Mayor's? Dave can you verify this? What year is it? Looks like a 65... Cool axe!


Dez

[nicholas]

I think MMC's strat is a 63. So if Spose confirms it is in fact a 63 after this post, I won't look like a :nick for saying another year .... like, ohhhhh say a 62 ;)

[Da Green Fuhrer]

What's the yellow underneath? Is that a base coat or something?

[1959burst]

yup! fullerplast?

[John Catto]

Actually as I understand it, it's just the yellow stain. Fullerplast didn't have any colour to it. Here's an excerpt from this site http://www.provide.net/~cfh/fenderc.html which has more info on this stuff than just about anywhere.

Sunbursted: Fullerplast and the Yellow Stain.

When Fender switched to Alder (from Ash) as it's primary body wood in mid 1956, they also started using a product called "Fullerplast". This is a very misunderstood product. For example, there is a picture in Tom Wheeler's American Guitars, page 54 (upper left corner), of a man with long rubber gloves dipping bodies into a tank at Fender in the late 1950's. The description denotes the man is applying "Fullerplast" to the bodies. Most likely, this man is staining Alder bodies, a process used on Alder bodies from 1956 on before spraying the sunburst finish.

Fullerplast is a clear, sprayed chemically curing sealer, unaffected by solvents after it dries. It is made by Fuller O'Brien (1-800-368-2068), hence the name "Fullerplast" (and all this time you though it was named after the city of Fullerton, the home of Fender). Fullerplast soaks into the wood and creates a seal that prevents following coats from soaking into the wood like a sponge. This means spraying the color coats is easier and the coats can be applied thinner (saving material, money and dry time). Even though alder is a "closed pore" wood, the first few coats of lacquer will soak in like a sponge without some type of sealer coat. Fullerplast dries in 15 minutes, and is paintable in one hour. It is also applied very thin.

Another misconception about Fullerplast is it's color. Fullerplast is clear, not yellow. The yellow seen in the unpainted portions of a 1956 and later Alder body is actually a stain or dye applied under the Fullerplast. This was used to simplify the sunbursting process. The Alder bodies are dipped in a vat of yellow stain or dye. Next the Alder body is sealed with a very thin coat of clear Fullerplast. After drying, the sunburst procedure is continued by spraying the translucent red (starting in 1958) and dark blackish-brown on the edges of the body, which completes the sunburst look. Finally a clear coat is sprayed over the entire body to seal the colors. By dipping the alder bodies in a yellow stain first, instead of spraying yellow lacquer, there is one less step of lacquer to mix, spray, and dry. *

By fall 1964, Fender changed the yellow making it more whitish and opaque to better hide flaws in the wood. This allowed Fender to use cheaper Alder with more cosmetic flaws. The more whitish yellow was then applied over the Fullerplast, as were the red and brown of the Sunburst. That is why the red and yellow now looks much different on late 1964 and later Fenders. This new whitish yellow bleeds through the translucent red making it more orangish. Note that even though Fender was now spraying the yellow after the Fullerplast, they still continued to stain or dye the bodies yellow before the Fullerplast.

Note early (1954 to mid-1956) Ash bodies in Sunburst were done differently. In this case, the yellow is not stained, but is sprayed like a Gibson-type Sunburst finish. That's why 1954 to mid-1956 Fender Ash body Sunburst's yellow looks "brighter" than later Alder yellow stained Sunburst finishes. This process created a lot more production work. Not only was the yellow sprayed, but the Ash body also had to be "pore filled" before shooting the Sunburst. Since Ash is an "open-pore" wood (unlike Alder), not using a pore-filler leaves a final finish with considerable "sink". This occurs when the finish dries and sinks into the open pores of the wood, leaving a finish with many dimples. To stop this, a pore filler consisting of fine sand mixed in a thick naptha-based solvent is brushed on the bare wood. After some dry time, the excess pore filler is scraped or wiped off leaving material in the pores of the wood, thus filling them. After some more dry time, the body can be sealed with lacquer or Fullerplast. Finally the color finish can be applied. This process was always used by Fender on Ash bodies from 1950 to the present.

Back to the yellow stain. Since it was used for Alder Sunburst bodies, sometimes you don't see it on custom color finishes. But again, most times you do. Fender was a production shop that produced mostly Alder Sunburst finished bodies. Hence they just stained all Alder bodies with the yellow, allowing them greater production flexibility. Therefore most custom color bodies have a yellow stained body too. After all, you're not gonna see the yellow on a custom color body, so what's the difference? Fender just stained all Alder bodies yellow and figured out later which ones would be custom colors. Again, in most cases Fender also still used Fullerplast in custom color finishes too. The custom color spraying process wasn't different from sunbursting till after the Fullerplast step. This simplified the production process, and made Fender quick to react to market demands for Sunburst or custom colored bodies.

During 1963 and 1964, when guitar production was really high, bodies destine to be a custom color often didn't get the yellow stain, Fullerplast, primer, and clear coat procedure. After all, if the shop was really in a hurry it can just spray the color coat right over the Alder without any preparation paint (if need be). All they did was spray more color coats (especially if a clear coat wasn't used). This would cost more in materials (custom color paint was the most expensive paint Fender used), but it sure was quick. And often, they didn't even clear coat the color. This was truly a "rush" paint job.

Bit more than you really wanted? huh :)

[1959burst]

thanks john! excellent!

[burst_king]

I learn something new every time you open your mouth John. :)



Eh, I hope that sounded right, it's meant as a compliment. :) :bigal

[Jim Shine]

Actually, to achieve that bright yellow color,Fender bleached the alder, neutralized it with vinegar, stained yellow, then sealed with Fullerplast. Often times dried up pools of bleach in the routes are confused as being buffing compound (although there was some compound there as well). The bleach was used to even out the color between the different pieces of alder used in the body. The bleach was used from the start of alder bodies around late '56 and lasted until 1964. At that time the factory began spraying the bodies with a yellow finish that was semi-opaque like blonde to hide seams and mineral stains. These created the "target" burst look.

[John Catto]

Hi Jim
If I remember correctly it was you who went into some detail on Bill's site about the original Mary Kaye finish having a "burst" like quality to it. Care to re-iterate that here?

[Dan Erlewine]

Nice info there as always. I was also under the impression that Fender bleached alder. The only reason I say this (Jim Shine may have more hard facts) is that Yasuhiko Iwanade is sure of it and "Yas" always goes deep.

Also, at the Great Northwoods Guitar Repair Seminar, perhaps, 8 years ago, a big focus was on spraying vintage Strats. Yas was there and gave some excellent demos. We followed alder through the bleaching, staining, and bursting stage - the result was just right.

As you know, in the finishing world there are many ways to acheive the same look. "One" way is not the only way. Perhaps even Fender changed their ways. I would assume that they probably experimented.

thanks, Dan

[Electron]

Good info here.

[Jim Shine]

Dan, if you ever chemically strip an old Fender body, you can see where the bleach ran down the sides and in the routes of the guitar! It appears that Fender only bleached the face and back. Perhaps so they could handle the guitars without getting bleach on their hands, and also because the black or brown band would cover the side anyway.

It is quite right Fender experimented. One experimental finish that pops up on guitars is in the mid-late 60's, there are these sunbursts that have a white layer underneath. According to Fender, these guitars were painted white, then grain was simulated with a glaze. Ritchie Fliegler claims that these were made of poplar. I have seen this finish on Strats, Jaguars, Jazzmaster's and P-basses. I have pics if anyone would like to see them. The finish is very convincing, until the finish is worn through at which time you can see the bright, almost olympic white layer.

[Cogs]

I found this thread doing a search for "Fullerplast" & it is so cool I thout I'd bump it up. Spose, can you post a photo of Dave's Strat if you've got one?

[BLUELOU]

I JUST WANNA SAY NICE AND I LOVE OLD GUITARS
I LOVE READIN AND LISTENIN TO THIS TALK
SO THANK YOU ALL
ITS REALLY INTERESTING TOPIC

SINCERELY
BLUELOU
GODBLESS

[Wisertime]

Very informative thread indeed. Does anyone have an idea which is a better body wood, alder or ash, and why?

[BlueFrogs]

Wow this is an oldie. Cool thread though!

[Cogs]

Very informative thread indeed. Does anyone have an idea which is a better body wood, alder or ash, and why?

I think they have both proven to be good choices. It just depends on what you prefer. I like alder because it's easy to work with & readily available. I can get ash, too, but not the light stuff. And because ash is harder it takes a little more time to shape by hand.

[tonemonkey]

Ash will generally have the nicer grain, good for transparent colours and bursts, and of course when coloured solid black ash makes for perfect batchelor pad furniture :lolspin