Jaguar vs. Jazzmaster - Education of a DA

[Erock_Germany]

So, I am venturing into the world of the other Fenders and have GAS for a Jaguar or Jazzmaster (Classic Player). Now, I may get into surf music but generally I play rock and blues as well as chart rock from the 80s and 90s....

Have Strats, a Tele, a Lester etc. and want something DIFFERENT...

So, what is really the difference between these two models besides one has standard single coils and the other has P 90s

The switching thang kind of confuses me...

Anyboday upt to giving a a little insight/education here...

[Kap'n]

The JM doesn't have P90's which have some height and are loaded by two bar magnets, but a rather flat, wide coil.

The major difference between the two is scale length, 24" for the Jag vs. 2.5.5" for the JM.

If you want something that grabs some of that Fender magnetic polepiece sound, but is really big sounding, try out a DuoJet with Dynasonics. You could be really surprised.

[fatdog]

Smells like..... a Mustang.

(I'm a DA also! They all remind me of Kurt)

[Rickenjangle]

I have the Classic Player Jazzmaster and it is the bomb. Really.
I got rid of my older, kinda tired AmSt Stratocaster because I never played it anymore, in favor of playing the Jazzmaster.

The Jaguar is more different from what you already have. The short scale will make quite a difference. The pickups, too, are very bright but not in the same way as a Strat or Tele.

When I tried one of the new Mustangs with the pseudo-Wide-Range-Humbuckers I liked its sound but could not get used to the 24" scale.

[Erock_Germany]

I have the Classic Player Jazzmaster and it is the bomb. Really.
I got rid of my older, kinda tired AmSt Stratocaster because I never played it anymore, in favor of playing the Jazzmaster.

The Jaguar is more different from what you already have. The short scale will make quite a difference. The pickups, too, are very bright but not in the same way as a Strat or Tele.

When I tried one of the new Mustangs with the pseudo-Wide-Range-Humbuckers I liked its sound but could not get used to the 24" scale.

Thanks...by the way, just noticed you have Jackson Browne quoted at the bottom of you posts...we used to do that song. Think we have to "...get up and do it again..."



Hmmm, looks like I need a good comparison session.

I played the Classic Player Jazzmaster and it is awesome as far as sound and quality - little difference to the American Vintage.

Unfortunately they did not have a Jaguar and to be honest, I have never played one.

Should be an interesting process...

If you want something that grabs some of that Fender magnetic polepiece sound, but is really big sounding, try out a DuoJet with Dynasonics. You could be really surprised.

And I really never thought of this route either. This will be on my list...thanks a bunch for the creative input Kap'n

[Offshore Angler]

Actually, the surf thing isn't at all about Jags and Jazz's. Real deal surf is all about Stratocasters. The built-in reverb tank in a Strat contributes to the "drip" that you are looking for.

The Jazz and Jag thing was really about phtot shoots and branding. And really a Tele is a fine surf piece. You need to bend then neck a lot when you need the dives, but regardless of what people will say, after years of doing it to Teles I've never had a problem. In fact, I'm so used to doing it I often find myself doing it on my Strats instead of using the trem bar. Doing so you get the needed dive without muting the Strat's internal reverb tank which happens when you grab the bar.

[Rickenjangle]

Aw, come on, Chuck, my Jazzmaster practically oozes surf. And if you want to get right down to it, so does Tony's Sidejack - both of which have what I consider to be the finest non-locking tremolo around...

I figure that the Strat tremolo was Leo's first attempt at it, and then he got it right with the Jag/JM tremolo.

It's not just about the look. The JM is one of the most comfortable-playing guitars I have ever owned. Now I just need to woodshed some surf tunes...

Cowabunga dudes!

[Fripperton]

The switching thing is easy. On a Jazzmaster you have a standard 3 way switch with a master volume and a master tone. Simple enough. The extra switch above the pickups turns on the neck pickup only with its side mounted volume and tone controls. When it is turned on the 3 way switch and Master Volume and tone controls have no function. The object is to give you a preset rhythm sound to switch to. It was Forrest White's contribution to the design which he was very proud of and which nobody besides Forrest White found useful.

The Jaguar's controls are essentially the same but with individual on/off slider switches for each pickup along with a 3rd slider switch that essentially makes the pickups thinner sounding. Some people call it a strangle switch because that's what it does to your tone.

[Fripperton]

Aw, come on, Chuck, my Jazzmaster practically oozes surf. And if you want to get right down to it, so does Tony's Sidejack - both of which have what I consider to be the finest non-locking tremolo around...

I figure that the Strat tremolo was Leo's first attempt at it, and then he got it right with the Jag/JM tremolo.

It's not just about the look. The JM is one of the most comfortable-playing guitars I have ever owned. Now I just need to woodshed some surf tunes...

Cowabunga dudes!

Chuck's using the Dick Dale dogma which states that the Stratocaster is the true Surf sound. Of course you also need to use a Dual Showman amp driving a pair of 15" JBL D-130s with the tone ring setup and outboard Reverb tank to complete the equation or according to Dick you're not playing authentic surf. Doesn't bother me because I'm more from the Ventures school which really wasn't Surf although they get lumped into that category for obvious reasons. Dick Dale actually asked Leo to design the Reverb Tank to be used as an aid to improve his vocal tone since he claimed he didn't have an, as Dick Dale put it, "natural vibrato".

Also if you study the Surf Band era you will find that a lot of bands didn't use Strats, Jags or JMs. Most of them eventually did but not all. These were the days when you played what you could afford so there were a lot of Harmony, Silvertone and various other sub brands. In the era after the first wave, so to speak, the Surf Nazis who weren't around in the beginning decided that there was a specific type of gear that was authentic to the tone. There are some fans that are very rigid about this.

[Rickenjangle]

Vince, I notice in pics that you play your Mosrite Ventures model the most. That makes sense when you say you're from the Ventures school. I like that sound, too...I had the Eastwood Sidejack version of that for quite awhile, it was a great-sounding axe, but with the Burns vibrato, tuning was a nightmare. Then when I lost the vibrato arm I tried to order one from Burns and they wanted 75 quid for it, plus another 20 pounds for shipping. I told 'em to bugger off, ordered a Maestro arm for 20 bucks and ebayed the guitar.

Chuck's bandmate, Tony, has a newer Sidejack with the JM/Jag style vibrato, and it's an absolute killer.

Still, I love my JM and I'm not gonna part with it any time soon!

As for dogmatic tone opinions...I don't subscribe to 'em anymore.

I think about how many people are chasing the Hendrix tone, or the Beatles or Stones sound, and - when you listen to their early stuff, especially - their tones were NOT always all that great! Their playing? Classic. The overall sound of the music? Fab. The songwriting? Topnotch. The Vibe? Killer. Individual sounds? It might be the best-sounding part in the mix, and then when you really try to isolate it, you realize...it was the right sound for the part but shitty nonetheless. Kind of like the icepick guitar on Sympathy For the Devil...it works, but whoo, boy! I don't wanna sound like that!

[Offshore Angler]

Shoot, I use a Sheraton in our surf band. Especially to cover the Japanese surf like the Particles, boing boing, etc. "Surf" is a wide range of music.

But real, honest to goodness American SoCal surf is the Strat. Period, game over. Go down to the four corners, walk in the doors, walk up to the counter and tell the lady you'd like to make a deposit.

Quintessential US surf. You know, the stuff that goes good with CH3NO2, 8-71 blowers and burning rubber. Whitewalls and no back fenders on a 32 hi-boy.

Everything else is "instrumental music". How the Ventures get put into surf I'll never figure out.

[Offshore Angler]

Chuck's bandmate, Tony, has a newer Sidejack with the JM/Jag style vibrato, and it's an absolute killer.

It really is.

[Fripperton]

Everything else is "instrumental music". How the Ventures get put into surf I'll never figure out.

Basically they were a cover band and logically covered a lot of Surf tunes which luckily for them came into vogue shortly after they had their first hit in '59 and the category stuck. They sent me a CD with about 20 remastered Surf cover tunes from their catalog so they embraced/exploited the genre even if they weren't really a surf band. After the surf bands faded away they continued on with movie and TV themes and pop hits but became big internationally because of the lack of a language barrier.

[Fripperton]

Vince, I notice in pics that you play your Mosrite Ventures model the most. That makes sense when you say you're from the Ventures school. I like that sound, too...I had the Eastwood Sidejack version of that for quite awhile, it was a great-sounding axe, but with the Burns vibrato, tuning was a nightmare. Then when I lost the vibrato arm I tried to order one from Burns and they wanted 75 quid for it, plus another 20 pounds for shipping. I told 'em to bugger off, ordered a Maestro arm for 20 bucks and ebayed the guitar.

Chuck's bandmate, Tony, has a newer Sidejack with the JM/Jag style vibrato, and it's an absolute killer.

Still, I love my JM and I'm not gonna part with it any time soon!

As for dogmatic tone opinions...I don't subscribe to 'em anymore.

I think about how many people are chasing the Hendrix tone, or the Beatles or Stones sound, and - when you listen to their early stuff, especially - their tones were NOT always all that great! Their playing? Classic. The overall sound of the music? Fab. The songwriting? Topnotch. The Vibe? Killer. Individual sounds? It might be the best-sounding part in the mix, and then when you really try to isolate it, you realize...it was the right sound for the part but shitty nonetheless. Kind of like the icepick guitar on Sympathy For the Devil...it works, but whoo, boy! I don't wanna sound like that!

Yeah I like the mixture of the Mosrite style tone plus I like having the tried and tested Strat vibrato which as Chuck points out adds something to the tone resonance that works for the genre. I like the JM/Jag tremolo too and used one on my JMs for years. I really like the smooth feel of those. I know that before the knife edge design of the Strat tremolo Leo had another tremolo system which didn't work and according to Bill Carson made the guitar sound like an electrified banjo. I've never seen that prototype but I wonder if it wasn't an earlier version of the JM trem without the bugs worked out.


And I know what you mean about the Beatle tones vs the actual parts played. I was once listening to a Badfinger album and it struck me that alot of the guitar tones were the type you got by using an extreme EQ setting. If you've ever run your guitar through something like an MXR graphic equalizer and put all the bands flat but one you'll see what I mean. You get a tone that sticks out and may be good for only a certain section of notes on your fingerboard but it can really make a track special although you wouldn't make that the tonal choice for your tone all the time. I think there was a bit of that going on although I've also read interviews where the Beatles said they were trying to get the sounds they heard on American records but just didn't have a clue as to how to do it.

[buckaroo]

The Jazzmaster and Jaguar have bridges that "fail to hold the strings in place" when played hard. Additionally, many report that they don't quite have that traditional Fender sound that the ears of our planet have come to enjoy. They have different pickups for sure! Not Strat and not Tele.

Those guitars are loaded with switches and knobs that provide extensive ability (adverse ability in my opinion) to alter the tone of the guitar.

I am not bashing these models. I have owned several vintage specimens of each. They have some merit to be sure.

But know this: There is a reason they are not as collectible as Strats and Teles. Do your own math.

[Gold Strat]

The playing hard problems are easely fixed by putting on the Mustang saddles on a Jaguar or Jazzmaster and listen to Under the Bridge from the RHCP and then you know that a Jaguar can sound very good, the amp. that is used is a big part of it as well and so is the player.
We are very lucky that the prices are low for these wonderfull instruments and for an old Strat or Tele the prices are way too high for musicians.

[Rickenjangle]

The Jazzmaster and Jaguar have bridges that "fail to hold the strings in place" when played hard. Additionally, many report that they don't quite have that traditional Fender sound that the ears of our planet have come to enjoy.

Those guitars are loaded with switches and knobs that provide extensive ability (adverse ability in my opinion) to alter the tone of the guitar.

I've never played a vintage model, but I've owned a Japanese and a MIM and never had a problem with strings not staying in place. And the switches thing...well, if the extra switches on a Jazzmaster confuse anyone at all, then they can just leave 'em alone. The JM switches just like a Tele if you don't use the little slider switch.

As for the Jag, well, it is a bit more complex, and I've never owned one so I can't sure, but it can't be much more difficult that the 2 volume, 1 tone, one master volume arrangement found on most Gretsches. Personally I had the most difficulty 'groking' the control arrangement of a 3 pickup Firebird...seems I could never 'kill' the middle pickup at all.

[Kap'n]

The playing hard problems are easely fixed by putting on the Mustang saddles on a Jaguar or Jazzmaster and listen to Under the Bridge from the RHCP and then you know that a Jaguar can sound very good, the amp. that is used is a big part of it as well and so is the player.
We are very lucky that the prices are low for these wonderfull instruments and for an old Strat or Tele the prices are way too high for musicians.

It's the guitar in the video, but it sure sounds like a strategy to me.

[Gravity Jim]

Kap'n, I thought the same thing: I think he chose the guitar in the video for it's "alt" look, just like his stupid hat. :)

[Direstraits]

I think I want a Jaguar with P90s, but having bought 2 guitars in the last 12 months (one of them being a third Strat) I'm having to keep the GAS turned well down at present

[Kap'n]

It's the guitar in the video, but it sure sounds like a strategy to me.

Gotta love the autocorrect built into my phone.

[Kap'n]

Kap'n, I thought the same thing: I think he chose the guitar in the video for it's "alt" look, just like his stupid hat. :)

Using my ears helped. That and I recall an interview with Flea in which it offhandly mentions that he was finding a Teisco or something to use in video as a prop. Those two put together clinched it for me.

[Erock_Germany]

So, back to the topic....I now went to my local super store here - like a mega Guitar Center - called Music Store in Cologne. I will not buy here but they generally have everything in stock.

Now it was Saturday and all the local teenage wannabe shredders had the amps cranked up in the tube amp room (some things are just the same all over the world) I plugged each one into an SRRI and turned it up to 5 to shut them up a bit and the youth factor simply had a look and a quick lesson in rock'n'roll...

Since I had actually never played a Jaguar (or spent a great deal of time with a Jazzmaster) it was an adventure. It was a MIM Classic Player Special. The guitar is cool. The short scale feels neat and has a neat twang an clarity. The tone controls are wild and you get a great deal of sounds - needs a learning curve but it would be there...

The Jazzmaster (MIM Classic Player) was awesome. Those big single coils had such a twang and tons of beef and really hit the front end of the amp - WOW! The tone range (must be learned but it is obviously not rocket science) is really neat...

The tremolo is neat. Both guitars were set up OK and stayed in tune nicely (I did some harsh tests)...

All in all, I came out undecided...still having some thought if they really are THAT different from a Strat....I mean they are different but just not so many miles away...

Then I picked up a Gretsch Duojet like Kap'n had mentioned. It was a GRETSCH G6128TCG DUO JET W. BIGSBY with Dynasonics.

Now, this was the nuts. This is way different from sound and feel and the thing looked so cool.

Looks like I know what the piggy bank slush fund for 2012 needs to achieve....lots more coin for these, but jeeze, what a neat guitar! Thanks for the suggestion Kap'n!

[Kap'n]

Then I picked up a Gretsch Duojet like Kap'n had mentioned. It was a GRETSCH G6128TCG DUO JET W. BIGSBY with Dynasonics.

Now, this was the nuts. This is way different from sound and feel and the thing looked so cool.

Looks like I know what the piggy bank slush fund for 2012 needs to achieve....lots more coin for these, but jeeze, what a neat guitar! Thanks for the suggestion Kap'n!

That's the exact one I bought. I ended up swapping the Melita bridge for a T-O-M, because the Melita looks cool, but can have issues with saddle stability. That itself might get replaced by a TruArc in a bit, since I've discovered it's a 9.5" fingerboard radius.

[Sartana]

Actually, the surf thing isn't at all about Jags and Jazz's. Real deal surf is all about Stratocasters. The built-in reverb tank in a Strat contributes to the "drip" that you are looking for.

The Jazz and Jag thing was really about phtot shoots and branding. And really a Tele is a fine surf piece. You need to bend then neck a lot when you need the dives, but regardless of what people will say, after years of doing it to Teles I've never had a problem. In fact, I'm so used to doing it I often find myself doing it on my Strats instead of using the trem bar. Doing so you get the needed dive without muting the Strat's internal reverb tank which happens when you grab the bar.

Not really. Lots of bands really used and recorded with offsets. Just on the Jag side:

The Fender IV
The Astronauts (Jag and Jazz)
The Trashmen
The Beach Boys
Eddie & The Showman
David Marks & The Marksmen
The Lively Ones
The Tornadoes
The New Dimensions
Kathy Marshall