I'm helping a friend choose a new mic. It's easy to say "SM58," but do you guys know of a better choice in the same price range? I like the specs on the EV ND767.....
Also, not too exotic, please. Needs to be something she can pick up at GC.
And if you think the 58 rule, say so.
I like the Sennheiser e835 and e935. The 835 is about the same price as a 58, and the 935 a bit more. I think the clarity is better.
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
Speaking of 58's - I'm having trouble with mine - remember the old days when you couldn't kill one? Even if you dropped it into a pitcher of beer? Well, the connection to the XLR on mine is loose, getting looser, and crapping out. I'd recommend something a little better too. Mine's only about 3 years old...I've got an SM57 that I've had for 20 years that never fails me...Originally Posted by Kap'n
"I'm gonna find myself a girl
that can show me what laughter means
And we'll fill in the missing colors
In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."
Shure's condenser live use mike is awesome I think it's a 87.
I own the EV mic and we never use it. I can however HIGHLY recommend the Shure Beta 58. They can be found on ebay for $100 or less. I have three (all bought for under $100) and they are perfect. Super reliable and sound great. We gig quite a bit and they are rock solid.
Check out my band's stuff:
The BIG Coque Band's Facebook Page
The BIG Coque Band's Youtube Page
"Follow your bliss"
--Joseph Campbell
Kap'n, that's a solid on the Sennheisers... they look real good for the money, and I see a lot of people on line who like them way better than the Shures, usually describing the SMs as "muddy" in comparison. Now I'm interested in the 835 and 845.
Coque, why don't you use the EV?
Last edited by Gravity Jim; 09-18-2011 at 11:19 AM.
I just sang through an Audix mic at my gig today, about 99 bucks the soundman said, and it was SO, SO, SOOOO much better than my 58. I think I'm gonna retire that and get a couple of these Audix'es.
I looked it up - it's an OM2. There is also an OM3 for 30 more with a mic stand and cable.
By the way - sorry to go off topic but I am trying to decide what to do about my mics and cables. Getting crappy and cutting out. I can never remember which ones acted up on the gig, later on...I don't want to throw away any good ones - but I'm tired of dealing with this stuff....
Last edited by Rickenjangle; 09-18-2011 at 05:14 PM.
"I'm gonna find myself a girl
that can show me what laughter means
And we'll fill in the missing colors
In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."
They make cable testers. The original was Swizz Army, but there are knock-offs now. I should probably get one.
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
Do they work to diagnose intermittent problems?
"I'm gonna find myself a girl
that can show me what laughter means
And we'll fill in the missing colors
In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."
Yep, you shake the cord. There's circuitry to keep the light lit.
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
One of the big differences between SM58 & a Sennheiser is the polar pattern. The 58 is a cardioid & the Senns are usually super cardioid.
This becomes really apparent in live usage. If you work the mic loosly i.e. move from left to right a bit while Mic is in stand, the wider cardioid pick up of the 58 favors you while if you hand hold or work mic in the middle up close the super will favor you. Also less bleed on super Mics. Good mic technique can make or break your vocals. The Senns & the EVs sound a little "drier" to me. Each voice sounds different. One might sound better on a 58 or better on others. Go to store & sing in cans to compare them. Or borrow from friends & use on gig, I think this is best way. On gig is reality, anywhere else is fluf. Unusually as it may seem, after 30 yrs as live sound engineer, if 58 works as a vocal match & singer has decent Mic technique, the 58 sounds better to me. I use em all, but the 58 is still after decades the standard "go to Mic" for vocals & live sound. Higher price range - different opinion.
ifsnhee, the e835 and e935 mics Kap'n mentioned are both cardioid mics: the e845 is supercardioid, and features an extended high-end response as well.
This woman is singing lead in a classic rock band that plays bars... i'm just looking for a mic that will give her voice more presence or (god forbid) "cut" in a loud house. I've been singing into 58's since the 70s, and I know what they sound like. That's why I'm asking for suggestions for something else. :) It goes without saying that she'll try before she buys, and she's shopping at GC so she can return the mic easily if it doesn't work as hoped in performance.
So... we're checking out the Sennheisers and the Audix OM series.... anything else?
Silent j.
This sounds like you need to test alot of different Mics. Female Vocals can be cause for alot of Mic searching. I used to think a condenser was best for females, but I proved myself wrong on concerts with female Vocals. I had a gig where lady used 58 & I wanted to try a 87 thinking it could sound better for her - she hated it (I loved it) she said there was way too much "mouth noises" in her monitors. Another soprano major Christian artist (over 60 albums & great live entertainer) I thought could benefit from a condenser - I was wrong - way too much high end, only a good dynamic worked well, (turned out a Sennheiser was perfect). Test as many as you can - then go with the one that sounds most like you want. To recommend a Mic without knowing your singer & situation will not yield your best results. Hope that helps.
GC policy says that they don't accept returns on mics due to health concerns. I'd look into that before she buys anything.
Yep - too much fidelity in live performance can end up in things like handling noise as opposed to being in a more controlled situation. Especially if somebody in the band is running the sound.
The SM58 is the other end of that coin - adequate for when people were hooking them up to VocalMaster PA's, and durable but don't have the clarity for modern expectations.
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
Thanks, Don... I did not know that. I'll pass it along.
But I did see them selling a used mic online.
Considering that you are a professional who knows what he's doing, I think there is some good advice here. Some of which is great "common sense" but then shows why the 58 is still the king.
What the hell does that mean?
It means that the "clarity" that may seem like a great idea, can actually bite you in the ass when it shows up live as handling noise and/or feedback issues.
That predictable midrange hump the 58 has provides that boost right where the average voice needs it.
The other factors that were brought up which for some can be strong tools, can actually be limiting to other singers are the pickup pattern and the proximity effect.
The right pattern is great for eliminating extra sources getting picked up which makes it hard to get a clear vocal sound amplified clearly (the key to presence in a mix).
IMNSHO, many of the these features that can be great in the studio are just the wrong thing live.
With that in mind maybe it's best to consider what you DON'T want first, and eliminate those first. A loud singer doesn't need a lot of sensitivity that can lead to feedback issues, mouth noises, and handling effects. Female singers with higher ranges are whole new challenge as the characteristics that make for clear sounding mics can overly emphasize the higher frequencies and make for a "thinner" sounding voice.
This was all good advice. Shelly and I met up at GC early this afternoon, tried out a half dozen mics plugged into a pair of JBL columns, and the winner is.....
The Sennehiser e838.
The 835 sounded great, too, but the 838's extended high end really suited Shelly's voice nicely. The Beta58 sounded great, but seemed a bit dark for her voice, and the Beta87 (a condenser, the only one we tried) really sounded good, but not enough better than the Sennheiser to warrant the higher price and the gain-before-feedback considerations. The Audix OM2 and OM3 had too MUCH "clarity," as Wilko says, and sounded a bit screechy with Shelly's voice... maybe they'd be not so much with a male vocal. Finally, we tried a plain vanilla SM58 as a baseline, and frankly, it couldn't hold a candle to any of them. I might prefer an SM58 to the Audix mics, but the same-price Sennheiser blew it away.
So, now she's got a mic that really suits her well, for $139. Niiiiice.
Thanks for all the input....
Congrats! There's no real substitute for trying out a bunch.
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
Trying them out is great. I learned most of this stuff in high school when we went to GC with my sister who was singing in our "family band". We auditioned a bunch of mics and she ended up with an AKG D 3000, IIRC.
Imagining the sound of the mics in a mix is hard to do for many people. Sometimes what may sound good isolated just disappears next to the guitar and hi hats.
Of course, a 58 does sound rather "dull" in AB testing.
I think that's true for all electrified instruments. At least half of the guitar amp/fx industry is based on the sound of a distorted guitar in isolation
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
Ain't that the truth!
I'm a firm believer in avoiding that "syndrome". I do that to a fault. I jump ahead with extreme prejudice when setting up most instruments, PAs, or recordings.
Lose all that fuzz! Most guys would be seriously surprised if they could hear just how "clean" some the heaviest guitar sounds actually are.
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