The elusive bridge pickup.....

[Paultergeist]

Hi Folks,

I am searching for some advice on getting a bridge pickup for my Strats. I haven't been able to quite find what I am looking for, and I'll be grateful for any informed opinions. I use my Strats as musical chameleons, in that I play a variety of stuff (nothing too hard, no death metal) blues, jazz, and mostly rock. While I seem to find tones I like with the middle and neck pickups, I just cannot seem to find the right bridge pickup. In particular, I generally go on to the bridge pickup when I am playing some rock with an over-driven tube amp. I am hoping to be able to use my Strats to pull off some rock along the lines of Van Halen/AC-DC/Santana as the band's set requires. Most of what I have tried in the bridge position seems weak and extremely shrill when really pushed through a hot amp.

Thus far, I have tried a DiMarzio DP404 virtual Vintage Pro, a set of Fender Noiseless, a DiMarzio Yngwie Malsteen bridge Pickup, some Holy Grails, and a couple of other that I can't recall. All of these seemed really weak and thin to me in the bridge position under significant tube overdrive. I don't know how Yngwie gets his sound, but I sure couldn't get my guitar/pickup/am to sound anything close to his tone.

I also tried a Seymour Duncan Hot Rails, which did do overdrive pretty well, but I thought the personality of the pickup -- both in terms of looks and tone -- was a bit too edgy, and I didn't want to lose my Strat quality altogether.

There has got to be a better bridge pickup choice out there for me -- one that will do a much thicker overdriven tone (not shrill), reasonably high-output, still have a Strat vibe -- but I am just not sure what it is. Again, I need the guitar to be very flexible as far as musical styles are concerned. Surely, others have encountered this same problem?

Any ideas are much appreciated.

[Gris]

Van Zandt 'rock' - and put a steel plate under it to bump the mids...

The Fralin 'Steel Pole' is another good option. I like the slightly less hot one (Lindy makes two versions)

[jpap]

I would also suggest to take a look on Kinman pups. Especially the 64b (Hank Marvin series) is a very good, powerfull and flexible strat bridge-pup.

[Don]

I'm thinking about putting a Tele bridge and pickup in mine! In fact, I've wanted to do that since playing a Strat for the first time over 25 years ago!

[CJ Neel]

Fat 50's. Add a baseplate to it.

[pseudocat]

The Rio Grande Stelly is pretty nice, too. It sort of rides the line between a strat pickup and a chunky tele pickup. And it's a true single-coil, which is a bonus in my book.

[Spudman]

Dimarzio FS1 That's the Fat Strat and it's really hot and full.

[Madmoon]

Kinman Hx-85. Fat with lots of growl. Competes with the full sound of a humbucker but retains the strat sound and bite. Nice for instrumental rock and rock in general. Sounds great with the middle pup.

[demioblue]

Toneriders City Limits Bridge pup. at 9.5k, it's quite a puncher!

If you want the noiseless ones, then I'd have to say ^ to the Kinman HX85.

[Totally bored]

Yngwiie gets his sound using massive gain with the HS3's.

Virtual Vintage Solo Pro is a very nice pup IMO. I can get a really good thick AC/DC - Alice in chains sound with mucho Gain of course and it will also get some decent stratty type tones. Nothing weak and thin about that pup and are you sure we are talking about the same pup ? I suggest you revisit that pup and tweek it a bit if you already own one. YMMV though ?

Also, what amp and or Pedals are you using ?


My current favorite combo is Dimarzio 61's in the Neck and Middle and a VV Solo Pro in the neck. IMO, them pups need No Load Pots to bring out all of the tone and they need proper hieght adjustment.

Baseplates add bottom from a bottomless pup but don't take away the clarity.

[ziess]

You've got to bear in mind what they had for amps back in 1954. Amps were a lot less bright than they are now. I'm not sure there is an adequate compromise between a classic strat sound and that of a 'bucker. Anything somewhere in the middle is going to detract from the sound of either. Not quite a 'bucker, not quite a single coil? P90? Dyna? Filtertron?

I dislike the sound of strat bridge Pup through all my amps at low volume (except for the 5E3). When they're cranked they sound great.
Maybe a 5E3 is in order!?

Tommy.

[Paultergeist]

My current favorite combo is Dimarzio 61's in the Neck and Middle and a VV Solo Pro in the neck. IMO, them pups need No Load Pots to bring out all of the tone and they need proper hieght adjustment.

You mean the VV Solo Pro in the bridge, don't you?

My sincere thanks to everyone who took the time to respond to my query. "Totally Bored," I especially appreciate all the thoughtful detail and suggestions. Tommy, it is always good to see you -- here, or in any other forum!

I think these last two posts from TB and Tommy may be hitting the nail on the head. Maybe it isn't the pickups. Maybe more of the issue lies with me and my implementation. In fairness to myself, I have mostly played higher-output humbuckers in the past on guitars with flatter-radius necks than typical Strats. When I have played a Strat in any sort of band practice situation, it was typically to do a blues tune or something really "Strat-ish," after which I would eagerly go right back to my PRS clone, etc (which I play much better on due to the greater familiarity).

More recently, I have found myself drawn to some very soulful, toneful, playing which seems very conducive to the Strat type of guitar. In my playing environments, however, I seem to need a guitar that can do a little bit of everything, and I really have not gotten "there" with the Strats for anything in the more tube distortion sound pallets. In particular, I could almost leave the bridge pickup un-installed, as I have used it so little (shrill). Therein lies the origin of my query -- to make my Strats more adaptable to my style and needs.

I think TB's points about amps, etc., is especially relevant. I have not done the homework as far as what settings, tubes, pedals, etc., are going to work best for me. I gained a lot of information from reading the Kinman website. (Ironically, multiple attempts at gaining a user name/password access to Kinman's ordering page have gone un-answered. He must be losing business -- or is he out of business?) I have yet to try adjusting pickup height, or checking what pots are in the guitar, etc., and I guess all these things matter. I need to go to Stratocaster pickup school, and start from the beginning. I need to give my amps (main giggers: a THD Flexi-50 and a 22-watt Brown Note D'Lite [Dumble clone]) a chance to find their sweet spots with whatever pickups I end up using.

I think my next step should be to pull all the pickups out of all three Strats, inventory what I already have (and check pot values, cap values) and figure out what a logical pickup arrangement would be for one of the guitars -- then just put that one together. From there, I guess I can start figuring out the best amp settings/pedals/strings/string or pickup height to get closer to where I want to be. I wonder if I have just been missing all the subtleties of this?

Anyway, thank for all the suggestions, and I apologize for the long post.

[Gris]

It's not all that complicated. Yes, single coils like different amps and pedals/settings than buckers, but I have yet to meet anyone who likes a low output Strat bridge pickup for blues or rock sounds; medium or high, yes, but low, no. FWIW, the best blues lead tones I've heard from a Strat were invariably from the neck alone position anyway, usually with a very slightly overwound PU there. But, to each his own...

[CJ Neel]

... but I have yet to meet anyone who likes a low output Strat bridge pickup for blues or rock sounds; medium or high, yes, but low, no.

I do...

[Gris]

I do...

Never met ya. So, it still holds true...

[CJ Neel]

Lawyers and their damn semantics.

[Gris]

HaHa - good one!

Sure, anything can be done with effects. Just stating my experience. Down here in the deep south we like our bridge PUs faaaaattttt!

[pseudocat]

...but I have yet to meet anyone who likes a low output Strat bridge pickup for blues or rock sounds; medium or high, yes, but low, no.

GFS 60's Repros. These things sound fantastic! And they're low output...

Seriously, how many great blues and rock recordings were made with stock strat pickups from the '50s, '60s and '70s? There were very few (if any) boutique-wound medium to high output replacements back then.

[pseudocat]

Down here in the deep south we like our bridge PUs faaaaattttt!

I can dig it. That's why I like Teles so much.

[Gris]

GFS 60's Repros. These things sound fantastic! And they're low output...

Seriously, how many great blues and rock recordings were made with stock strat pickups from the '50s, '60s and '70s? There were very few (if any) boutique-wound medium to high output replacements back then.

Yeah, but I bet a lot of that stuff was played on the neck PU. I'm a Tele player too... :-)

We did a gig not to long ago where me and another guy dualed on 'Thrill,' me on my Tele and him on a 'SRV' Strat. He really killed me on his licks, but the crowd liked me better because he had the thin Strat tone and I had the fat Tele tone... ;-)

[Totally bored]

"You mean the VV Solo Pro in the bridge, don't you?"

Yes and oops I mean't in the Bridge position and I'm glad you got the amp Pedal suggestion/thought.

Just to give you an Idea of what I do and this may not be what you do so...

I play Originals and covers in various bands. We play anything from Country to Blues to Rock to Heavy whatever. Think AC/DC Alice in Chains, Guns and Roses, Robin Trower, Hendrix , SRV , Skynyrd etc etc . I use a 72 Deluxe Reverb and a plethora of pedals to get my sound. I use a Fulltone Distortion Pro to get the heavy sound. Gain up high. I use an OCD to get my Blues-Rock and or Country sound. Gain on medium to light. I use the amp alone to get Clean sounds and maybe add the RC Booster for EQ flavor and or Boost. I'll step on the Boss Super Overdrive SD1 in con junction with the Distortion Pro or the OCD to get very Nasty sustaining overdrive for solo's. I can Dial in a ton of sounds with any style pup, vintage or High Output. I can get a heavy sound with Fender 57/62's or a VV Solo Pro. The differance is that the Solo Pro will give me more bottom and not be as bright. Both sounds are good BTW and I have 14 Guitars, 5 are Strats with various pickups.
If I bring 1 strat to a gig it is currently the one with the 61's in the Neck and Middle and Solo Pro in the Bridge. BTW, I also ride alot of the time on the Bridge pup but I use Neck and Middle and the 2 and 4 positions alot also. Hope that helps ?

My Pedal Board


L-R in Series

Boss DD3 Digital Delay
Boss CE-5 Chorus Ensemble
Xotic RC Booster
Fulltone Distortion Pro
Fulltone OCD
Boss SD-1 Super Overdrive
King Vox Wah (Tweeked a little for True Bypass and more Hendrix)
Fulltone Deja Vibe 2
Boss TU-2 Tuner

Up and down in Parallel:

Kazoo, Harps and Slide.

[CJ Neel]

HaHa - good one!

Sure, anything can be done with effects. Just stating my experience. Down here in the deep south we like our bridge PUs faaaaattttt!

I don't use a lot of effects, just a clean boost (Bad Bob) and I use vintage wind pickups. The amp matters more. Mid scooped BF style amps need to be hit harder than tweeds. I play tweeds for the most part, unless there's a need for a real clean sound, then I break out the BF amps. The tweeds do just fine with vintage wind pickups.

[Gris]

The tweeds do just fine with vintage wind pickups.

OK, now I see where you are coming from. I agree completely. IMHO tweeds are made for single coil guitars.

[chuckocaster]

a tone pot on the bridge pup helps smooth them out. this is what i do, i leave the neck tone pot alone and then swap the mid tone control over to the bridge. try that first before buying some new pup, you might be surprised with the results. if not, then get a new lead pup. but you might as well try a free mod first.

[Paultergeist]

There are some great ideas and suggestions in this thread!

My sincere thanks go out to all who responded to my query!

[69strat]

I use my relic strats and they sound great playing ACDC and VH with a regular single coil in the bridge. The only thing would be they have a little bit of hum with some gain. That's normal and doesn't bother me. But the sound is great. Most hot pickups I tried were too bloated and boomy for those styles. My strat's bridge is 6.3 K ohm and perfect into a medium hot amp doing some Van Halen. Especially the early album where he had a real scooped bright tone, with little bass. That's a single coil-ish sound, to me. the rest is in an aggressive touch and amp.

I tried a few of the rails (ech!), and the Dimarzio virtual vintage, too smooth for Van halen, made everything buttery and lost that great presence and crunch. Tried a hot stack from Duncan, again too middy and lost the upper end attack.

All the hotter pickups seem to make the strat less aggressive, actually. Sure it gave more output and sustain, but it lost the crisp, clean top end crunch/sheen that I wanted, like you hear all over VH I. Hotter pickups went more towards a dark, metal tone like Iron maiden and further from VH, ACDC etc.. Which is really a very clean overdriven tone.
So my suggestion would be, don't go too hot.

[concert410]

a tone pot on the bridge pup helps smooth them out. this is what i do, i leave the neck tone pot alone and then swap the mid tone control over to the bridge. try that first before buying some new pup, you might be surprised with the results. if not, then get a new lead pup. but you might as well try a free mod first.

I like the Delta Tone circuit because of this. YMMV but it works for me.

[Gris]

All the hotter pickups seem to make the strat less aggressive, actually. Sure it gave more output and sustain, but it lost the crisp, clean top end crunch/sheen that I wanted... So my suggestion would be, don't go too hot.

I agree that's the way to go if you wanna keep the 'Strat-i-ness,' but it's a matter of taste.

I also think just measuring the DC resistance doesn't tell the whole story. You have to look at inductance too. I've had many Strat PUs that read 6.7, 6.9 ohms DC, etc. that still had the high end in spades. And I've had bridge pickups that read 6.0 ohms DC that were not shrill. Great pickup makers have a way of using the right magnets and winding more or less of smaller or bigger wire to get it right.

I like a relatively low output - read CLEAR - bridge pickup that is both fat and chimey. Then I like to put the steel plate under it to fatten it up further without compression or loss of high end - YMMV.

[bignote]

Chuckocaster is on the right track with his advice. That is how I have my strat wired, and that is the ticket.

[pseudocat]

I wire my strats with a master volume and master tone. I use a no-load pot for the tone control, so if I want the old-school, "no tone control for the bridge pickup" sound, I just turn the tone control all the way up.

Having that tone control on the bridge pickup makes a huge difference, IMO.