67 Silverface DR

[Cygnus X1]

The more I find out about this amp, the stranger it gets...at least for me...

Bought for $75 in '83, without a speaker.
Got an ill informed sales associate to sell me a Celestion G12M-70
for it a couple years later. Used a DOD SD-1 and it didn't sound all
that great, playing old heavy metal and electric blues. No mid, too
much high, wrong fit for sound.

Ignored it for years, then started playing it with a Boss OD-1 overdrive.
Put a spare Sunn Alpha-60 speaker in it and it sounded great, until the
caps went out. Through some horse trading, had a radio repair guy recap it. Twice. It sounded ok after he got it working, but not as "brown" as before. I did a neck job/refret on his Ovation for this. Ug.
(Once, BTW)

After being informed by many "gurus" that it is a silverface, therefore never would be worth more than a couple of hundred dollars, I bought the Weber Vintage Amp book and commenced to modding. Thank goodness I didn't get too far before I realized that this was a blackface all the way through, with a silver face on it. Web research at that time (ten years ago), would only reveal that it was maybe a '69,
and the transformers were probably different, and it wasn't a blackface.

Much more data has appeared, the chassis serial number proves it is indeed a 67, the tranny's are BF Shumaker, correct #'s, Drip edge, thin grillcloth,no production number on the tube chart, AB763, GZ34
etc.

OK, So I have an amp of which the gurus were completely wrong about, does it perhaps have a bit more value because of the twisted road of Fender/CBS/SF/BF...I'm not sure I care now. I love it , and
it's mine.

Horse traded my way into a mystery large 2X12 closed back cabinet with the same grill and drip edge. Gave away a Jersey BC Rich skeleton for it.

Couple of questions: That radio guy threw in whatever caps he had. 1: Can I get a "Cap kit" and redo it properly? Suggestions for sources?

2:It still has most of the original resistors. I replaced a couple that cracked because of the famous waferboard problem. Should I just
go through those, also?

Third, I have the Telefunken GZ34 that came with it. I use the 5U4GB because I have several, but no backup for the GZ. Who sells a GZ34, and does it really make a difference? (I know you can't go the other way, you can't stick a GZ34 where it was designed for a 5U4GB)

I am well capable of doing the work, just want some good advice to restore this amp back to its original internal condition.

The exterior is good. No tears, one butt burn on the top. (Hey it made a great ashtray for someone sometime....!)

Thanks,
Cygnus X1

[NTBluesGuitar]

I did a cap job on a '78 SF Deluxe Reverb and just ordered Xicon Electrolytics from Mouser. Worked great.

Here it is:


Resistors, I guess don't need attention unless their measurements are significantly off.

[Cygnus X1]

The problem I had with the resistors, they wouldn't always show up right away. Either cabinet installation or heat would "open them up", even after poking them with a drumstick wouldn't always reveal cracked boogers. One drove me nuts for a little while.

What about the small disc caps? Don't they have a lot to do with the tone?

[Victorilux]

Ask miles!

www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com

This is a crazy website, only click on that link if you have HOURS!

[Cygnus X1]

Thanks, Vic....

My little brain has just been blown....

I also like that "PR gal"...

See you guys in a couple months....

[melody]

Miles is a legend in his own mind!

[elicross]

It doesn't seem unusual at all for an amp expert to be highly opinionated and...um...extremely self-confident.

[Cygnus X1]

I went there, downloaded a bunch of files for later...

He's a master tube matcher, that's clear.
I have literally hundreds of old unused tubes for radio, tv, and amps
that some guy gave away when he retired his shop 15 years ago.

Wonderful resource. I found out a "12BH7A" is worthless to me, but
$20 tosomeone else, so I might get rid of some of these and the other junk I acquired.

The tech pages are worth the visit alone.

Amp tones are always a matter of personal taste. I've been informed by many shredders that my 67 DR (original) was junk. Right...
Sounds great through my shredder axe!

Cygnus X1

(Think Rush)
(No...the other Rush)

[Victorilux]

I really like that site. Turned me onto some amps I never would have plugged into.

You could also e-mail Mark at Victoria Amps. They still do service and rebuilds if you want them to do the work. He should be able to give you some very "sound" adivce on cap selection related to the tone you are trying to achieve.

[Cygnus X1]

Ok, for lack of a response, I googled rebuild kits, came up with a few...
then I looked up Torres and found he had a fairly ugly reputation. (No news to me, but I've not known anyone personally that dealt with Torres...)

Just would like to get a package of caps/resistors. I 'm confident of my work...any suggestions where to buy, even if I have to purchase individual parts?

Thanks,

[Cygnus X1]

Favorite vendor?

Or just see what Radio Crack has?

[mageerc]

Antique Electronics has a wide selection and excellent service. The only drawback is their handling fee...

http://tubesandmore.com/

Doug Hoffman has a smaller selection, but will have everything you need and his service is second to none...

http://www.hoffmanamps.com/

[JAM]

For the coupling caps, I'd get Mallory 150's. For resistors, carbon comps are fine for the signal path, and metal film are fine for the power section and B+. Do not buy into the carbon comp mojo. It's crap.

fezz,

Did you mean to say "...carbon films are fine for the signal path,..."?

[NTBluesGuitar]

Mouser.com for all the components.

They have Mallory caps, Carbon Film resistors, Alpha pots...I get just about everything I use (including solder and de-solder braid, turret lugs, standoffs and screws, etc.) from Mouser.

[Cygnus X1]

I have some shopping to do...thanks, everyone. The amp works, I just think it's worth the effort to get it back to spec.

Cygnus X1

[NeoFauve]

The amp works, I just think it's worth the effort to get it back to spec.

Cygnus X1

Definitely!
Especially considering you already have, like, $75 into it.

[Cygnus X1]

I ordered caps, resistors, and a few other doodads from Weber to rebuild a Magna Champ, finally do the recap on this Deluxe Reverb, and
do a project.

The 16uf 450V caps are about half the physical size of the caps that are in the amp. No, sorry, they aren't the Mallory 150's. They are "Tung", 105 celsius rated.
Why are they so small?

And, as I wrote, some radio guy repaired/recapped this amp.
He put in 30uf caps. There's a lot of things he replaced that were way out of spec. I plan on returning it to spec, or close.

[Kap'n]

Mallory 150's are coupling caps.

The big, expensive filter caps are Sprague Atoms.

[Cygnus X1]

Mallory 150's are coupling caps.

The big, expensive filter caps are Sprague Atoms.

Yes, I was looking at these:


That NtBlues kindly suggested.
I was under the impression those were Mallories. (Oh, well).
So, I ordered them from Weber, and they about half the physical size.
Is there a problem with the Tung caps? Or will they work ok?

[Cygnus X1]

Mouser.com for all the components.

They have Mallory caps, Carbon Film resistors, Alpha pots...I get just about everything I use (including solder and de-solder braid, turret lugs, standoffs and screws, etc.) from Mouser.

I tried, good Lord I tried.
I placed an order for some caps and an output tranny for a champ clone, and the order wasn't even close to being filled. I guess that's a result of me trying to order a canister cap.
So, I ordered some electrolytics and other items from Triode, and the order came to me, minus the electrlytics! I called, and told them anything even close to a 20uf 450V would work, and they had nothing.
So I placed a relatively large order with Weber, and everything came,
no problem.

[phantomman]

These SF drip-edge AB763s are climbing in value, Cygnus. Not skyrocketing, mind you -- just a steady haul upwards. I'd love to tell you that the amp's not worth the paper that the schematic is printed on and that you should sell it to me for peanuts. But I cain't. You got a fine piece of historic issue there and you should move heaven an' earth to bring it back to spec. Once tooned up you can expect further decades of faithful service from this titan of tone. I got an all-original SF Bandmaster built in the fall of '67......it's one of the sweetest, most soulful amps I've ever owned. And I've owned a lot!

[stratcat55]

Notice how NT has all the caps with the values facing the exact same position? The man has great attention to detail.

[ziess]

The original filter caps were probably Mallories too but when people talk about 'Mallory caps' they're generally referring to non-polarized poly caps on the inside of the chassis.

I've had nothing but good results with those Weber electrolytics and I appreciate their small size.

Tommy.

[Cygnus X1]

Notice how NT has all the caps with the values facing the exact same position? The man has great attention to detail.

Yes, I noticed that.
Awesome work, NT.

And I will bring it back to spec., including resistors, if necessary.
I never got crazy enough to drill any new holes in it.
Just the Weber type mods, easily reversible.

[Cygnus X1]

I'm going to shift this into the tech forum, when I get fully entrenched.
Right now I'm creating a CAD drawing of everything. I already have a ton of photos. But having a drawing to work from brings forth great opportunities.

[phantomman]

Yes, I noticed that.
Awesome work, NT.

And I will bring it back to spec., including resistors, if necessary.
I never got crazy enough to drill any new holes in it.
Just the Weber type mods, easily reversible.

You're wise beyond your years, Cygnus.

BTW, that large drip edge Fender cab you got is prolly a Bassman or Bandmaster. Dimensions for either are 40 x 29½ x 11½ (HxWxD). The B'Master will have the lockdown ferrules for the head spaced at around 25¼ inches, the B'Man will measure around 23½. If the ferrules measure less than both of those it's prolly a good bet that it's a Bandmaster Reverb box (the spring-loaded amp lockdown screws are inside the head cab for that model, on the bottom -- about 18 inches center-to-center).

Best of luck on the DR resto......hand salute!

[NTBluesGuitar]

Notice how NT has all the caps with the values facing the exact same position? The man has great attention to detail.

You noticed!

That's all intentional so that the owner can see exactly what is in there and what would be needed in the future.

I picked up that little habit suggested to me by JAM a long time ago.

BTW, those are Xicon electrolytics. 22uF is the closest they make to 16uF. The original electrolytics were Mallories, but as Tommy mentioned, the common Mallory caps are the Mallory 150s (non-electrolytic signal path caps).

Anything 16uf or higher (but not TOO high...no more than 30uF) would be fine.

[Cygnus X1]

I ordered 16's, 20's, and 22's.
Just in case...
And I ended up with 5 of each.
Still, they are small. The 20's seem to work well in the Magna Varsity,
and they discharge quickly. They were not noisy, at all. I just hope they last.

[PJE]

Miles is a legend in his own mind!

Miles is a great guy that offers a wealth of knowledge for free.

[Kap'n]

Miles is a great guy that offers a wealth of knowledge for free.

Everybody's got an opinion.

Including me.

[elicross]

That's all intentional so that the owner can see exactly what is in there and what would be needed in the future.

It also looks bitchin'. And it's indicative of a level of attention to detail that speaks well for the whole build.

[NTBluesGuitar]

Thanks E!

It's the graphic designer in me...I can't help it...we're OCD about stuff like that.