65 twin reverb reissue vs 100w twin

[jjsmith1]

Hey all,

After reading the comments about the Hot Rod series and then paying closer attention to my own Deville 2x12, it is obvious I need a decent tube amp. The Deville just doesn't cut through and then gets lost in the mix when playing in a band. I've spent countless hours and spent a lot of money buying pedals trying to fix the sound of the Deville (of course with little success).

A friend of mine had a 100 watt twin that sounded incredible. I am seriously considering this amp. Only a couple of paychecks stand in my way. However, I was at the store the other day and noticed a 65 twin reverb. I didn't get a change to play it, but it got me wondering what the differences between them are. I know it is 85 watts and doesn't have some of the bells and whistles of the 100w twin, but what about sound? My friends amp was incredibly loud, almost too loud. I can't imagine i'll be playing in a venue large enough to crank it up too much. But I like the idea of having it if i needed it. How do these two amps compare at lower volumes? Any advantages or disadvantages you guys have experienced with either one of these amps over the other? Any input would be greatly appreciated

Jake

[Plugger]

Surprisingly perhaps, you won't hear a lot of difference in sound levels between a 100 watt amp and a 65 watt amp of the same type. For example, my 130 watt Musicman combo has a "half-power" 65 watt setting, which I usually use, but actually hardly quietens it at all. I mostly use it to put a little less stress on the circuitry and components.

A twin reverb of any description is going to be loud and clean, which is great if you want loud and clean. I agree they are great sounding amps (my MM is sort of the MM version or evolution of the twin reverb) but they are not for everybody.

But certainly a great improvement in terms of sound over a Hotrod no matter how you slice it. Some people like their amp overdriven, but I prefer things a bit cleaner myself. Well, most of the time. When I'm in dirty mood, I have other ways and means...

-Mark

[Kap'n]

With an old amp, there may be some overdue maintenance issues.

However, if you buy it at the right price, it won't depreciate, whereas the RI will.

Make sure the cabinet is in good shape.

[rudutch]

In my experience
"twin" can mean one of several amps

I have owned a '94 twin amp & a TRRI
The '94 twin does not come recommended by me
The 'twin amp' was changed somewhere around 2001,
I've not used that particular model...

If a HRDV 2x12 is not cutting through,....... Those are very loud amps, turn up the presence and it should cut like a knife...

The trri can compete with a jet taking off, if that's your thing

[Kap'n]

I guess in my own myopic view, other than the reissue, "real" twins were made from 1954? to 1980.

[jjsmith1]

Sorry, I should have clarified which amps I were talking about. When I say the 100 watt twin I am refering to this:
http://www.fender.com/products//sear...tno=0215700000
The 65 twin reverb is this:
http://www.fender.com/products//sear...tno=0217300000

The advantage I see in the twin is it has miles of headroom. I play through pedals (I love mt Pro Co Rat) so I just need something that stays clean. But I am concerned about how the twin would sound at lower volumes. The 100 watt twin has a 1/4 power option. I wonder if this changes its tone? Any suggestions of something smaller than a twin that has lots of headroom but can still scream?

[Kap'n]

Sorry, I should have clarified which amps I were talking about. When I say the 100 watt twin I am refering to this:
http://www.fender.com/products//sear...tno=0215700000

As an FYI here [honestly, not trying to make any tone snobbery comments here...]

The phrase "100W Twin" to people familiar with older Fender amps refers specifically to Twin Reverbs from around 1971 or so to 1976-ish that had "100 Watts" printed on the back panel. This differentiates it from Blackface and early Silverface amps, which had "85 Watts" on the back panel, and the ultralinear Twin Reverbs, which had "135 Watts" written on the back panel.

As for your quest, for an amp that "has miles of headroom but can still scream." Well, any sort of 'screaming' you get out of an amp with 'miles of headroom' is going to be either driven by a pedal or be a channel switcher.

I can't comment on the latter, and for the former, you find an amp with the right clean sound first, and push it with a pedal to go with that amp. For most rooms/stadiums any tube amp with a decent clean sound and an output of 50W or greater should be plenty of power.

[jjsmith1]

My apologies. My knowledge of the correct terminology is lacking and shows my inexperience with the topic. Fender refers to the pro tube amp as a "twin amp," I suppose this should have been what I referred to it as. Also, when I say "scream" I mean really loud, not breaking up or overdriven. I have pedals for that. I have also looked into the '65 Super Reverb as well as the Custom Vibrolux Reverb, but haven't had the chance to play either one. I hear that they start to break up around 4 or 5 (volume). I would prefer something that stays clean.
My apologies again for the confusion with terms. I appreciate what input has been given.

[Plugger]

Anyone tried one of the "Twin Amps" (as opposed to the '65 TRRI)?

The "drive channel", channel switching, 1/4 power options and so on are obvious extra bells and whistles presumably to make a TR-like amp appeal to a wider base, but does anyone have experience of how the basic clean sound compares to a "real" Twin, for example?

-Mark

[bonefish]

got roadies?

[Plugger]

got roadies?

wimp!

-Mark

[bonefish]

well, i already gotta haul the bass player up and down the stairs...

[Plugger]

OK, I take it back... your bassist's in a cool band, bf.

-Mark

[Kap'n]

Anyone tried one of the "Twin Amps" (as opposed to the '65 TRRI)?

Is that the one they were marketing as "The Evil Twin" a few years ago, as opposed to the red-knobbed "The Twin" they made in the 90's.

Or is there another one now?

[Plugger]

Is that the one they were marketing as "The Evil Twin" a few years ago, as opposed to the red-knobbed "The Twin" they made in the 90's.

Or is there another one now?

I was looking at the amp in the first link the OP posted. It says
(new) in the product description:

http://www.fender.com/products//sear...tno=0215700000

-Mark

[MikeM]

I use a "Twin Amp" all the time. Never had any problems with it. The distortion channel is very Marshall like. Thankfully its on wheels!

[LoveBandit]

Anyone tried one of the "Twin Amps" (as opposed to the '65 TRRI)?

The "drive channel", channel switching, 1/4 power options and so on are obvious extra bells and whistles presumably to make a TR-like amp appeal to a wider base, but does anyone have experience of how the basic clean sound compares to a "real" Twin, for example?

I had the Pro Tube series Pro Reverb which is the EXACT SAME as the current 100 watt Twin except it has 2 6L6's instead of 4 and one 12" speaker instead of two and it switched from 50 watts to 12.5 instead of 100 to 25. It was discontinued when the Supersonic came out. It has tube driven tremolo and reverb but a solid state rectifier:

http://www.fender.com.au/amplificati...pro_reverb.php

My opinion of it was that it had a nice deep classic Fender clean channel with tons of clean headroom but not quite as "sparkly" as my buddy's TRRI. Although it did have a drive channel that was better than any Fender drive channel I have heard to date. It was built like a tank and weighed just over 75 lbs. Switching it from 50 watts to 12.5 took away some of the tone and made the tremolo sound weak but the darn thing was STILL LOUD as heck....

HTH, LB.

[Notyethendrix]

I'm a rather new 74 Twin Reverb user, great clean sound, lush reverb, nice tremolo.

American fat strat>boss volume pedal>dunlop wah>maxon tubescreamer>Line 6 delay

One happy user

[Notyethendrix]

and Kap'N knows very very well about the Twin family tree, IMO he is the go-to-guy if you need advices.

[jjsmith1]

So for "twins" in general, do they still sound at lower volumes? If I was playing a smaller venue and hat to turn it down a bit, would it still sound incredible? (What sounds good is subjective I realize, just after some of your personal opinions).

Thanks

[Kap'n]

At any sort of reasonable volume, a Deluxe/Vibrolux/Pro/Super Reverb will sound better than a Twin Reverb, unless you need to be squeaky clean.

[MikeM]

So for "twins" in general, do they still sound at lower volumes? If I was playing a smaller venue and hat to turn it down a bit, would it still sound incredible? (What sounds good is subjective I realize, just after some of your personal opinions).

Thanks

Yes it will. On mine, any volume setting from 3 and up sounds good. The overdrive channel really comes into its own around 4.

[Notyethendrix]

So for "twins" in general, do they still sound at lower volumes? If I was playing a smaller venue and hat to turn it down a bit, would it still sound incredible? (What sounds good is subjective I realize, just after some of your personal opinions).

Thanks

nah, it needs to be pushed

maybe take 2 power tubes out

[stratcat55]

At any sort of reasonable volume, a Deluxe/Vibrolux/Pro/Super Reverb will sound better than a Twin Reverb, unless you need to be squeaky clean.

I don't know about sounding better that's too subjective, but the other amps will provide more grind at lower volumes. It just depends on what you're looking for. Once a Twin hits about 4 it really comes into its own. You will never get any kind of natural grind from a Twin and still keep your hearing though. I used to push mine with an LPB-1 to get a little grind at lower volumes. Tonally it still wasn't like my Bandmaster, or my Vibrolux, but I liked the Twin on a lot of other different levels.

[Kap'n]

I don't know about sounding better that's too subjective, but the other amps will provide more grind at lower volumes.

Sorry. I just sort of assumed that any of my [slightly opinionated ] posts would have an implied IMHO.

For me, even before you hit any real distortion, there's a point where a BF amp opens up, and they're a bit thin and weedy before it. I can't hit that on a twin at any sort of reasonable volume.

[stratcat55]

Kap'n nothing to be sorry about. I used to play really, really loud way back. I loved my Twin, but you're absolutely right about the reasonable volume. I'm not a real technical guy. Just a geezer who made a living playing too loud way back in the 70's and have hearing problems now because of it. I really appreciate all the info from you guy's especially on the lower power amps like the 5e3. I always knew about the tweeds and stuff but way back the PA systems sucked and stage volume was deafening.Especially outdoors. Anyway thanks.