I'm currently working on a song that really isn't working, and I was thinking it might be an interesting experiment to "workshop" it a bit here on TFF, if people were interested.
I thought I'd check to see what people thought, and how we might work it if people were interested in providing some constructive feedback. None of the forums seems quite right, although perhaps "the woodshed" would be the closest...
Just a thought.
-Mark
post link of what you got so far (or just lyrics/progression, whatever ya' got), i'll have a go at it.
Sounds good to me. I doubt I could contribute much, but I'd be interested to see how other people approach the craft :)
i bet this really annoy's you if your a grammar freak.
Sounds interesting, someone here may come up with an idea or advise you could use to make your song work for you. Lot of talent here on many different levels.
BW
Good idea! Let's see what you have so far.
Well?!?!?!
OK, here's where I'm up to: I did a very quick 'n' dirty recording, just to get something to post, and listening back to it I think I identified where at least one problem was: the pick-up going into the chorus is flat. So I've kinda workshopped it myself.Originally Posted by melody
I was planning to record another demo fixing that bit up, and see how that goes.
The other thing is that the demo I recorded is a bit embarrasingly rough, even for a home demo. Because I was lazy and didn't wan't to program the drum machine to do the demo, I cajoled my 11yo daughter into playing. We only had only one run through before we recorded, and the drumming's a bit uncertain in places. Actually, the rhythm goes completely into the ditch a few times. It was still useful to figure out why the melody was falling flat, but I think she'd be mortified if she thought I was going to post the recording publicly.
I'm having a practice with my grown-up drummer this weekend, hopefully; I was thinking I might do a second attempt at a demo with an improved pick-up then.
I didn't realise I'd created such anticipation.Sorry.
-Mark
OK, I've got a new demo. I recorded this on Sunday with my regular drummer. It's pretty much a live take -- except for the overdubbed a bass track (which is mostly OK except for one part where go into a change too quickly. I haven't bothered to redo since it shouldn't affect the overall perception of the song for our purposes -- although it may affect your perception of my bass playing, probably not unfairly...
I've got a few weeks yet to see if I can get this whipped into some sort of shape fit to see the light of day... and while I have some fairly specific ideas of where it needs work, I thought it might be interesting to get some different perspectives into the mix.
It would interesting to see if anyone can even figure out what the song is _about_ at this stage. If there's any interest, I may post the lyrics (as they are) later, but I thought since your audience usually doesn't get a printed libretto to follow along with, neither should you (at least on first listen).
Thanks for listening.
-Mark
Last edited by Plugger; 11-05-2007 at 06:58 PM.
Hello Plugger,
Just as I was going to listen to, analyze and try to come up with advice concerning your song, I find that the link has been deleted.
What happened?
Mats B
Sorry... I thought the workshop idea wasn't a-happenin' so I pulled the link.Hello Plugger,
Just as I was going to listen to, analyze and try to come up with advice concerning your song, I find that the link has been deleted.
What happened?
Mats B
Since it's just a demo of a song in progress, I thought I'd take it off the air until I had something suitable for more general distribution.
I've restored the link.
-Mark
Good! I'll listen tomorrow, since I'm at work tonight.
Mats
Last edited by matsb; 11-01-2007 at 11:11 AM.
Hello Plugger,
Now I've listened, and I have three suggestions:
1. Fix the rhythms in the lyric and/or the deliverance of them. Some lines sound like you didn't start them soon enough and you have to just cram the words in, other lines like there weren't enough words.
2. Come up with a bluesy "7-ish" type of melody for the guitar to play in the two big gaps in the chorus. They could also be used for the solo. Maybe one with an open high e-string and moving thirds in the b- and g-strings. Think CCR
3. At the end of chorus when you go up to G and then down to F#, why not play the F too, sort of take it all the way to the chromatic side: G 2 3 4 F# 2 F 4, and back.
Now, if you want to, give me the lyric and I'll see what I can do
Best regards,
Mats B
PS By the way, why do you feel that it "really isn't working"?
Matsb,
Thanks for thoughtful comments.
I wholehearted agree on 1. The lyrics and melody phrases are still far from settled down. I generally have to go through a lot of iterations to converge on the words and final melody. I typically start with an idea of melodic "shape", start here, end there, but typically there's a considerable amout of reworking required to get things working melodically. I usually have more words scribbled down than I can use, and I intentionally write without a strict meter when I'm starting, because that gives me an opportunity to try out melodic phrases with different numbers of syllables and stresses, to see what works better.
2. By the "two big gaps in the chorus", do you mean the bars where it change A->E, upo until the change from E->G? Or something else?
3. I'll experiment with the alternate progression and see what happens.
The original "really isn't working" comment just reflects where I was up to when I started with this song... I was trying to write in a genre (Chicagoish blues) I hadn't written in much before, and I felt the elements weren't combining well... you know what it's like: sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, and sometimes not. In this case, it was not. I'm still thinking it needs a bridge in there somewhere to break things up a bit.
Blues is a tricky genre, I think, because it is so dependent on feel. The difference between a great blues song and a tedious dirge can be entirely due to the feel and delivery of the player. As an exercise I'm trying to nudge this along the spectrum away from the "dirge" end.
BTW, the fact it sounds sort of more CCR than Chicago blues is really another bug... I'm guessing it's my rhythm playing. Oh well. The least of my worries. If I can a half decent song out of this in a CCR style, I'll settle...
Finally, I deliberately left the demo fairly minimalist (just rhythm guitar, vocals, drums, bass), partly beacuse it's easier to focus on the "bones" of the song that way, but also in case anyone wanted to add, say, another guitar part over the top to illustrate an idea. Maybe I should just post it in the JamZone and see what people come up with!
-Mark
Yes, right after you sing "white keys" is the first gap which ends when you sing the second short line of the chorus, and the second gap is after that second line (which I couldn't really hear the words of) up to the G chord.
I just felt that the chorus needs a melodic hook. And I think I'm proven right by the bass player who is doing all sorts of fills in those gaps. Commendable, but not quite the right instrument for it in this style
If you keep the rhythm in the guitar but play a more melodic sort of thing you wouldn't need another guitar. You would also have your bridge - probably played in reversed order (Starting with E) and, if you want, an outro.
And all this is very theoretical and maybe wouldn't work in practice, but.... one needs to theorize a bit too
And do put it up in the jam zone if want to, but then you should do a better mix if you can - vocals up, guitar down.
Rock on!
matsb
Thanks for your ideas. If I get another take on this, I'll post a follow-up.
-Mark
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