Okay, I've been playing guitar (acoustic) for about five years and I'm basically self-taught. I feel as if I suck way too much for the amount of time I've been playing. So I'm just curious...
What skills do you think a person should have if they've been playing for this amount of time? What should I have mastered by now?
Desire, determination, curiosity, a decent ear, how to change a string, knowing when you're out of tune, some sense of how to make musical noise playing along to recorded music (i.e. finding the key fairly quickly, applying a small handful of scales as a lead, anticipating what chords may come next in typical pop/rock forms), an ability to play a little sitting and standing, an OK sense of what NOT to play -- if not exactly a huge repertoire of what TO play, decent rhythmic timing, a handful of tunes that you've mastered in terms of the changes and your own phrasing...
Stuff like that would be headed in a good direction, imho.
It's not a contest, it's a journey.
Calendar months aren't as important as hours, fwiw.
Yep to all of the above. I agree fully what Clayville said about calender months vs. hours. I'm in the same boat as you are except I've been learning for 10 years now. For the amount of time I've been playing I really don't think that it shows and I know I'm not all that good of a player. I have a good ear and I have the desire, but free time isn't exactley on my side due to my work schedual.
But so what? I'm not out to compete and other than my son the guitar brings me a lot of happiness as it fills a void in my life.
I've been playing in excess of 25 years now and have been largely self-taught. I've taken lessons here and there but I have largely learned by osmosis as well. First off, I don't think there should be a hard and fast rule as to what you should know after so many hours of playing. It's completely individual.
What I've found is that I'll go through periods of rapid learning and periods of stagnation. Every so often, I'll "plateau" for a while (usually measured in months for me). I can seem to learn anything or absorb anything new and think: "This is it, this is as good as I'm going to get". The first couple of times, I got bummed with this and basically put the guitar down for a while and did other things - played drums, got into competitive cycling, what have you - but when I did come back to the guitar it was usually something that inspired me to come back and try something new out. At these points in my life, I usually wasn't playing in solid band, just jamming sporadically.
Since 1999 when I got back into playing in bands, playing with the guys every week and gigging somewhat regularly, my learning has kept progressing at a steady but modest pace. I no longer look at these plateaus as demoralizing, but as a sign to try something new on guitar - like working in country and jazz licks, learning to play slide, alternate tunings, listening to completely different music, take a few lessons, things like that.
I don't really have any advice for you but to keep playing and keep trying to learn or try something new on guitar....
DD
Playing in front of people and/or with others is a big help.
I've been playing for over 20 years, have a degree in music, and I am still learning new things all the time. I don't think any decent musician ever gets to a point where they say "okay, I'm done. This is it."
Set yourself some realistic goals and track your progress toward them. It's you against old you - not you against other guitarists. You should have moments where you realize "hey, six months ago this seemed like witchcraft and now I'm playing it fairly well. In another six months I want to be able to rip through it like it's nothing."
Find a good teacher. Obviously that's hard to do if you don't have the experience to know what to look for. But you can learn a lot from a good teacher that will save you a lot of time and effort heading down the wrong path. Heck, it could even save you from injuring yourself.
Don't obsess over sucking. Sucking is a part of playing. There will be times where you totally suck and look like an idiot in front of others. Learn from the suckage. Accept it, put it behind you, and move on. When you really suck, walk away for a little while and do something else. Don't beat your head against the wall.
Even the pros have days when they suck. Thing is, they're so good, you can't tell.
s'all goof.
Here are some things I wish I had figured out at five years:
The knowledge that practice is not the same as playing.
The assurance that it was okay - in fact, necessary - to make mistakes while practicing.
The wisdom that songs are more important than chops.
clayville speaks some wisdom. I know an awesome jazz cat who was doing some gigs in NYC, and met all these guys 15 years younger than him who could blow like maniacs. ANd he was talking to this old piano guy in club about how it brought him down to see them play, and said, "I'll never catch up with them."
And this old guy said, "Son... this ain't no foot race."
There isnt any benchmark that states how far you should have progressed or what skills acquired at any length of time playing. We're all individuals. Dont forget to enjoy making music, no matter what level you are - you'll be a little bit better tomorrow.
There are pretty much three different skills that one develops as one plays.
All of those improve with time, they don't all develop at the same rate, and are best improved by playing with others.
- Physical. Getting your fingers to do what you want them to do.
- Mental. Knowing what it is you want your fingers to do.
- Listening. Hearing what what's going on around you, and how best to embellish that.
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
I like that......Originally Posted by curtisstetka
I won a guitar in 2000 and didn't want to play it because it was autographed. I had tried to play a little in High school, but never went past that. So, from 1981 to 2000 I never really played. My wife bought me an affinity Squire to learn on. I picked up a little over a year, but mostly, I gutted the guitar, rewired it, new pots, switch cap, pups, etc....new saddles, same bridge, new tuners.....Sorry - got off track here.....my point is, that I tinkered mostly during that year, sold it and bought an Epi Dot, and a MIM strat, did the same with the strat, kept the Epi, and eventually, 3-5 more that year.
In 2004, i had learned enough rhythm playing to go to an open mic jam, and learned alot over 3 months of that to play with some friends I met there, and learned more once I was with them. In fall of 2004, I bought my first bass, and played with my first band (at 41). that went almost a year. I joined another band. Different players, new material, That went almost a year.
In December this past year, I went to an open mic jam about an hour away, and found that when he isn't on tour, David Bromberg hosts the jam. I played there four weeks and was asked to join the house band. I have played with so many different people, and had to react so many different ways to the styles, skills and abilities of the people that come. It is never planned, and there is no set list or scritp. Not everything comes of well, but it really makes you learn on the spot, or at least blend.
The moral of my long drawn out novel here........
Play with people.......at home, at their place, at jams, with people that know something and can show you along the way - the RIGHT way. I learned SO MUCH wrong stuff in my first two years, I still struggle to overcome it. I think you will get more from this than anything. Play the things you enjoy, they will make you enjoy the learning much more.
I did learn how to set up my basses and guitars though. That was huge. I went to see A lot of local musicians that I respect as players, and more importantly, as people.
It hasn't been that long, but they invite me in as a peer, but I still feel so beneath their abilities. I can play with them though, on mos stuff, and groove pretty well.
In all, I am willing to guess that in your time verses my seven years, you are probably a better guitar player. I struggle for every once of what I can do. My bass playing comes more natural, and I feel like a solid pocket player. That is pretty much what I can say.
Play with people. The better you get, the better people you can and should play with. You will learn from each other and generate energy to play off of.
Then again, Look at my Avatar. consider the source.
BTW - I still play that jam, and just got offered a spot with some guys that are really good. The B3 Player used to be with Johnny Neel for a numebr of years. I think that is good progress, in the order of things.
Keep up with it.
Last edited by FrankJohnson; 07-28-2007 at 07:30 PM.
Kenny Belmont
>:^{I)>
All you need is the continued passion and desire to play better. Then you'll learn new things all the time. Playing with others is a very valuable experience.. and enjoying the neverending process.
BW
Don't get so down that you think you should be better. Just enjoy playing! Life's not a destination, it's a journey.
Even Brad Paisley, Jeff Beck, and Eddie Van Halen sucked at one point.
I think comparing it to learning how to talk is a decent analogy. After 5 years of talking do you think a child should be able to write Shakespeare caliber literature? Heck no. It takes years and years to hone one's skills with language to the point where they can craft great stories. Not only do you have to learn the words, but you have to learn where to use the words and where not to use the words. You have to learn your timing in a story, and how to create atmospheres simply with word choice. There's so much to making great literature. Same with playing the guitar, only there's not as much of a learning curve. You have to learn the fretboard and the notes, then what combinations make great licks, riffs, and chords, etc... Learning how to play the guitar follows the same progression as learning how to write stories. Kap'n and Jim summed it up real well I think. You're never done learning new stuff.
Me, I still suck and am in the "learning the words" phase.
Got them Statesboro Blues
My point was...you might not suck as much as you think, you just need someone to help you recognize your potential and help you bring it out.
its in you and it needs to come out!
Kenny Belmont
>:^{I)>
To carry the analogy a little further, I think it's also worth pointing out that history has seen a lot of writers who were not nearly as good as Shakespeare -- but who were still genuinely great in their own ways.
Does B.B. King, for example, have all the technical chops of Eric Clapton? I think it could be argued that he doesn't. But who in his right mind would argue that he's not at least as good a blues player as EC? And might EC himself not argue that B.B. is better than him?
So there's that thing.
Just play like you. Anything else will sound fake. Learn to hear what you want in your head and then be able to play it on the guitar.
To me, the difference between a the real guitar players and not-so-good players is that the latter just do things with their fingers and go "Hey, that sounds cool", whereas real guitar players are playing from their head and "singing" with their fingers.
If you learn to listen, you'll start to notice the difference. SRV moved his hands, Jimi sang. EC in his early years moved his hands, Peter Green sang. Carlos can sing, and The Rev can sing his ass off and never open his mouth.
"No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim
all of the guitarists above imparted excellent advice/wisdom concerning the road we are all travelling as musicians. I have been at it 46+ years and am like that old "jazz-cat" quoted by Gravity Jim with the observation that "...this ain't no footrace, son...." (about the wisest thing said, IMHO.) and Mr Parker who mentioned the concept of "fun." as a business, music will both take you to the highest high and bruise your testes like no other I know.... don't bother with that part just have fun with it and grow at a pace you can live comfortably with........the finish line is where you draw it, pal
c
I think the balance between your head and your hands is the critical thing to progress as a guitar player.
The hands will eventually learn how to play independently of the head, so your head can focus on broad musical ideas, integration with the band, etc.
Ideally, your head will "sing" a lead for example, and you hands will naturally execute it without your head having to provide all the minute details of how to do that. This only comes with time as it takes a while for the hands to become "smart" enough to play musical ideas from the head without excessive supervision.
At any point in a guitar player's progress it is very important to know which is most advanced - one's hand's or one's head.
If your hands are well ahead of your head, spend time listening to others play and try to develop conceptual structures of the music you hear.
If your head is out in front of your hands, spend more time playing your guitar.
As mentioned above, playing with others will offer the fastest progress in your ability. I think this is in part because the communication required to play with others distracts your head from your hands and forces your hands to become less dependent on your head. As your hands "smarten up" and learn to execute your head's ideas with less detail instruction from the head, your head has more bandwidth to set it's attention on the nature of the song, what sound will be appropriate, how to integrate your musical ideas with what the band just did and it is doing now, when to play and what to play...
You have to be confident that with time and practice, your hands will become quite independent of your head and they will be able to play whatever your head asks without the head needing to provide every little detail of what to do to with the hands.
Once your hands are "smart", your playing ability will accelerate and your head will be free to command your performance at a higher level of musicallity.
Last edited by pauln; 10-02-2007 at 01:31 PM.
And then there's this:
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness".
-Dave Barry
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