DRRI vs HRD

[NTBluesGuitar]

Okay...y'all bit if you're reading this. Tee hee!

Regardless...

I've heard so much about the DRRI on this board, I thought I'd ask y'all what makes the DRRI so good.

Is it because it's a true-to-original DR? Is it a new, improved DR sound? Is it just a good, solid modern Fender amp? Is the Deluxe, Twin, and Super Reverb all the same amp but with different power and speaker combinations? Feel free to enlighten me.

I'm curious because I'm wondering if everyone out there shopping between the two would be happy with a PTP AB763 circuit sans vibrato? A while back I drew up a hybrid circuit layout for a HR chassis that encompassed the HRDlx power amp with the AB763 preamp. Now, I haven't had it proofed to see if I got it right, but I thought it was a nifty idea. Definitely something I'm going to pursue when I finish my 5E5A (got to always have one working amp before beginning a new project, right?)

So, if it's done right, could a HRD/AB763 mutation be a comparable, if not equal, amp to the DRRI? For those out there with a dead, or available HRD, it seems that going BF is more in tune with the HR series rather than tweed to me. I'm hoping that the SS rectified power married to a classic BF circuit would make a lot of folks happy.

I say this, because so many of the jazz guys here (U of North Texas) get a HR amp because it's tube and really good clean. However, knowing the history of the manufacturing, it wouldn't be out of the question to have a nice PTP idea to aid in replacing/improving the amp so that it can be reborn and be just as usable to this market as the original version, but with the dependability of a PTP build.

Forgive the naivete, but I love brainstorming. What do y'all think?

[NTBluesGuitar]

I'm just asking because I have one that is probably on it's last legs anyway.

So instead of buying the real thing, I can spend $75 on some parts and re-build the circuit.

Do I think it's wise to take a working HRD and gut it? No. Do I think it's worth reviving a dead amp in great condition for minimal cost? Yes.

If I had the money (which I don't), I would definitely try and consider the DRRI.

The post was really two questions. What makes the current DRRI 'good' in your eyes, and do you think that my brainstorm would be a suitable replacement for 1/10th of the cost?

Not trying to convince folks to buy a HRD and gut it. But if you get a lemon, maybe you can make lemonade with just a bit of sugar, no?

[pc]

There isn't enough brass weight in the world to put on the HRD side of that scale to make it balance.

What makes it good? You can't use words to describe it. It's so much more organic and responsive than a HRD or BD and you won't know until you take one home and play it at the volume and with the guitar/pedals you're used to playing your HRD with.

Play and HRD/BD with a band? Now take a DRRI instead. The band will say, "Oh, where'd you come from?"

Do I think you brainstorm will be a suitable replacement? I have no idea. Shall we buy a Mad Dog bottle and fill with Moet et Chandon?

Keep pouring more and more money into the particle-board chassis that used to be a HRD and you'll have spent twice as much as a new DRRI before you're even close to as happy.

Well... you did ask.

[boobtube21]

I think the DRRI is a great sounding amp. Kind of has a different flavor than the HR series, harder sounding when driven. The clean is a-ma-zing. A Tele played clean through a DRRI is a sound to behold.

I think Fender got it right when building this amp, hence the reissue. The HR series, I'm not so sure. Obviously the right elements to make a lot of sales, but not the best sounding amp. Not the worst sounding either, FWIW-IMHO-YMMV...

Could be an interesting sound, combining the two. Not being an amp tech, I can't tell you if it would be worth your time and money if usable tone and a reliable amp are your quest, but if you just like to build shit, it sounds like fun. :)

[frank thomson]

I think the DRRI is a great sounding amp. Kind of has a different flavor than the HR series, harder sounding when driven. The clean is a-ma-zing. A Tele played clean through a DRRI is a sound to behold.

I think Fender got it right when building this amp, hence the reissue. :)

(fwiw, i cant wait to get one/drri)

but it begs me to ask....why/how is it Fender got all the others *wrong*?

[boobtube21]

Didn't say they did. :)

[frank thomson]

no, i know...

but i'm just askin is-all

[Guitar_Mc]

no, i know...

but i'm just askin is-all

Frank, you're always just askin.

I'm just sayin is-all.

[frank thomson]

but doesn't it seem peculiar how they were able to get one amp RIGHT, and all the others wrong?

was it just dumb luck?

if your boss asked how you did all other tasks wrong, but you did one thing right, do you think you'd still have your job?

lol....i mean, seriously?

didn't the same guys design the same amps?...or, conversely, if *Bob* made the DRRI, and he got it *right*, doesn't he deserve a raise? And shouldn't he be put *Head of the Amp Dept*?


do you see what i'm sayin?

it's an honest question. if you can answer it, i'd be pretty impressed.

[boobtube21]

I think the DRRI is one of the 'greats' of the Fender Legacy (again, hence the reissue), but I wouldn't say they got the others wrong, just....not as timeless?

For example, I think Chevy nailed it with the 1969 Chevelle, but that doesn't mean the '68 was wrong. Most think the '70 was it.

FWIW, if you screw up enough at my work, it seems to earn you a promotion.

I wish i was kidding about that one.

[boobtube21]

I think the DRRI is one of the 'greats' of the Fender Legacy (again, hence the reissue), but I wouldn't say they got the others wrong, just....not as timeless?

For example, I think Chevy nailed it with the 1969 Chevelle, but that doesn't mean the '68 was wrong. Most think the '70 was it.

FWIW, if you screw up enough at my work, it seems to earn you a promotion.

I wish i was kidding about that one.

[frank thomson]

yea, i can kinda dig what you're saying.

but if these are re-issues, is it that everything is identical in the DRRI, and maybe in the TRRI everything ISN'T identical?....or is it that, for example, the TRRI, ir SRRI wasn't a perfect amp from the get-go, so the RI isn't gonna have that same quality either?

i guess i should be askin FEZZ specifically b/c he says they/fender really nailed the DRRI. ......maybe he just liked the orig, hence he loves the RI.

it's really just an honest question. i don't know amps like some of you guys. i really don't even know guitars like some of you guys.

maybe i should look for a Fender Idiot 101 forum and ask there?

apparently there's no simple answer to my question. or maybe some people just think i'm trying to break balls....i'm not, i just really don't understand.

either way, i'm gettin a DRRI in the near future, and i'll be able to A/B it against a TRRI and HRDlx. ....and hopefully it'll make me sell the others. ....from what i read it should be a no brainer.

[boobtube21]

I don't know amps like some of these guys either, but I know what I like.

I think the Deluxe Reverb was just a great amp to begin with, and from what I understand, it is a pretty faithful RI. All I know is it sounds good. If you do get one, I have a feeling that when you A/B the thing to your HRD, the HRD will become a doorstop.

I would love to justify buying a nicer amp right now, but I have ''too many open projects syndrome'' if you know what I mean, and need to get closure on some of those first. A DRRI is in my sights though, or maybe a BF Bassman/Bandmaster head for my 4x12?

Gotta finish that piece of crap in my avatar first. It's not really green, it's 3 shades of primer gray and rust.

[frank thomson]

well, since i'm def no expert (and a pretty crappy novice), and i really don't wanna start tweakin stuff, i'll take your word on it.

maybe you should call fender and let them know what they're doing wrong

seriously.

[95strat]

Fezz, that's awesome that you gave them a call! You would think if they biased them warmer they would sell even more.

I've heard so much good about the DRRI around here I want to go out a buy one! My brother-in-law has one. I think I'll borrow his. I'm sure I'll want to get rid of my BlDlx after playing it.

I'm at a crossroads for now. I have a desire to build my own, but that ain't cheap. Or I could get a DRRI someday and tweak it. Just so many options!

[Gravity Jim]

95strat, if you hear one, you'll want one. A couple weeks ago, I went out of my way to finally play through a DRRI just because of all the talk on this forum. A stock AmSe Strat into a brand new, unplayed DRRI in a music store, and it sounded great from the first note. An inspiring amp to play through.

[usc96]

A couple weeks ago, I went out of my way to finally play through a DRRI just because of all the talk on this forum.

I bought one because of all the talk here. I haven't regretted the purchase at all.

[pageburst]

I'd have to disagree here. I recently auditioned the DRRI, BD, BDVRI
SRRI, Vinbrolux, Bassman and TRRI. As a whole the Fender cleans really have that sparkly thing going without being the least bit harsh.

While I still love my Matchless Lightning, Bluesbreaker and Mesa LSS, I really wanted those sparkly fender cleans for a bit more tonal variety.

With that said, of the above named Fender Amps I auditoned, those with the 4x10 configuration had superior focus -particularly in the lower mids which can otherwise get a bit wooly sounding.

The guitars I used to listen to the above was a nice 04 R9 with TImbuckers and a 60s vintage ES335 with WCR crossroads.

Anyway to make a long story short I left with the BDV. To my ears it was voiced perfectly between a Twin and Bassman.

While the twin ,vibrolux and deluxe reverb sparkled a bit more -their upper frequency harmonics seemed to dominate a bit too much making them sound a bit light and lacking a bell like richness in the lower mids. Upping the bass or cutting the treble did not provide a tonally satisfying solution. These amps did provide outstanding touch sensitivity and microdynamics. This is the only area that i felt the Twin, Vibrolux, and Deluxe Reverb, amps clearly surpassed the BD and BDV.

All in all I think the BDV is fantastic sounding amp with a big round focused dimensional tone that just sparkles. How similar this is to a HRDV or HRD I couldn't tell ya but all these Fender amps including the DRRI and Twin etc., appear relatively cheaply made with their PCBs and other cost cutting elements. Still doesn't make them sound less than terrific.

[NTBluesGuitar]

Keep pouring more and more money into the particle-board chassis that used to be a HRD and you'll have spent twice as much as a new DRRI before you're even close to as happy.

Well... you did ask.

Actually, I only asked what made the DRRI so good in your opinions. Yeah, I titled the post HRD vs. DRRI, but that was all tongue in cheek.

Again...my brainstorm was regarding a dead Hot Rod Series amp. I am not assuming that one could take a dead HRD and make it into a DRRI copy. I know better than to think that.

I am asking the opinions as to whether having working transformers and a blank chassis might be worth spending $100 on circuitry and parts to build something nicer than one had to start with. If I did that, I'd have put $475 into something that has a good amount of the good characteristics of the DRRI or another BF style amp.

In the end, I wouldn't have spent double what an HRD is worth. And in the end, I would have something totally original that I made myself. I've seen others do pretty neat things to a Hot Rod Series amplifier, why not try myself

I respect all your opinions here. I'm not trying to be a naive smart-ass, just proposing an idea to y'all.

[95strat]

DRRI is nice! That spanky clean is the signature "Fender" sound in my opinion.

Now I want one...you are right Gravity Jim! Been shopping on e-bay.

My only dilemma is I want an AC30 (a kit version). I guess I'll just to have to get two amps!

[nitroburst]

Check out what I just stumbled upon. http://www.torresengineering.com/devrodblacre.html
This guy's got to be kidding? $375 for about $50 in parts.
So I guess he wants $300 for his intellectual property? I payed $350 for my HRD used. If it went Tits up on me I wouldn't mind paying a $100 for a PTP kit that would work with the original Iron. This is ridiculous IMO.

[Kap'n]

This guy's got to be kidding? $375 for about $50 in parts.
So I guess he wants $300 for his intellectual property?

Just say "no" to Dan Torres.

I wouldn't give $0.50 for his intellectual property, and I'd fight him off with a stick if he tried to touch my amp.

[boobtube21]

But Kap'n, how do you really feel about him?

[Kap'n]

But Kap'n, how do you really feel about him?

Trust me, I was being polite.

I've mentioned this before, but a big time amp guru guy friend of mine used to mark his workbench with all the Torres stickers from amps he was asked to un-modify.

[boobtube21]

Yeah, it would be hard to make one of those sound bad, wouldn't it?

[Kap'n]

I'd let him inside a HtRdDlx.

But would you let him back out again, or would you just fire it up?

[Smokey]

With regard to the DRRI; it just seems to be a sweet-spot in Fender's lineup. I think that the size is just about perfect at 22 watts. That's big enough to handle many a gig but small enough to work the power tubes a bit at reasonable volumes which adds greatly to the charm, at least for me. The 6V6 tubes in the power section are fairly mellow little bottles with pleasant overdrive characteristics.

Last week I played several high-end, "boutique" amps and then plugged into a DRRI fresh out of the box. The DRRI sounded good instantly, no fuss, no muss. I set both the Bass and Treble to 5 and the volume to about 3 and it sounded great. Nice clean solid Fender tone all the way. I tried cranking it to about 8 and it was breaking up a lot but still wasn't a bit harsh. The reverb sounded deep and rich and the normal channel just sounded slightly wamer with identical settings.

This certainly isn't the amp for everybody BUT, for someone doing a mixed bag gig with rock, country, blues etc it would be hard to go wrong. I had heard the the bottom end was weak on the DRRI but it didn't strike me that way. BTW, I was playing a Gretsch BillyBo through it so the pickups were fairly high-output versions of Gretsch's Filtertron humbucking pickup.

I need another amp like a hole in the head but I wouldn't be surprised to see a DRRI join my flock one of these days. It's one of Fender's best designs. I'd better quit talking about it or I'll end up in debt. :)

[Leo_appleyard]

heres another stupid question im afraid, does a deluxe reverb RI have more CLEAN (totally clean) headroom than a Hot rod deluxe/Blues deluxe ?? the drri i have played thru maintains clean well and distorted a bit when pushing especially hard - very nice, how does the HRDL react?

[mullmuzzler]

Doesn't it misses the 'middle' freq knob...? I've noticed that both channels lack mid knob...

mullmuzzler | OSSMT

[Guitar_Mc]

heres another stupid question im afraid, does a deluxe reverb RI have more CLEAN (totally clean) headroom than a Hot rod deluxe/Blues deluxe ?? the drri i have played thru maintains clean well and distorted a bit when pushing especially hard - very nice, how does the HRDL react?

Just read thru the threads. Some claim that the DRRI has more headroom than a HRDx, and others claim that it breaks up earlier than a HRDx.

Its pure magic.

[Smokey]

One thing is for certain, I'd much rather hear a DRRI played to the point of breaking up than the overdrive of the HRD's "Drive" channel.

[Offshore Angler]

The thing that IMHO, separates the DRRI form the herd is not so much the way it sounds (which is great) but the way it RESPONDS. It's the only amp I own that does exactly what you ask of it.

From a player's standpoint, what more could you ask for?

[Offshore Angler]

Just read thru the threads. Some claim that the DRRI has more headroom than a HRDx, and others claim that it breaks up earlier than a HRDx.

Its pure magic.

To the unitiated, yes, but you just hit the nail on the head. It's repsonding differently to different techniques. That's why some players have different results. They haven't been aquainted with a truly great amp and haven't learned how to stroke one yet.
(IMHO)

[telecustom]

I finally drank the DRRI kool-aid, bought one on fleaBay and played it out live in a fairly big venue 2 weeks ago. It sounded so much better than my CVR or my old HRDx. The first time I was able to crank it with the full band it responded great to my OCD pedal on the loud rocker songs and sounded awesome completely clean on the slower country songs. I had been concerned about the 22 watts thing but that turned out to be a complete non-factor. I will say that for some reason the vibrato/trem sounds alot better on the CVR.