?? Looking for PUP Recommendations ??

[cdw2000]

Hi,
I recently changed out (and sold) the Texas Specials that came with my '98 MIM strat (put in by previous owner) and am currently using the Fender Vintage Noiseless pickups, which have been installed for about 3 weeks now.

These pickups sound great clean, and I can get a good lightly overdriven sound out of them, but I cannot seem to get a decent distorted sound out of them. They tend to create these weird non-musical overtones and crackles. I've tried backing off on the tone control and even installed a Callaham steel trem block, thinking there was some sort of interaction going on with the lighter stock block.

I am basically a couch player who likes to play classic/progressive rock such as Yes/Genesis/Pink Floyd. So I like a heavy but smooth distortion with lots of sustain.

What are your recommendations for a good all around pickup (either noiseless or not) that can go from clean to heavy distortion?

How are the CS 54's for this? I have also been looking at the Hot Noiseless. How about the new SCN Noiseless?

I also have the original MIM ceramic pickups that I have never installed or heard. Should I give these a try?

Any help would be appreciated! TIA

[jpap]

I think the problem is on the rest of your gear and not nessecarily on the pups. Dave Gilmour and Steve Hackett got during the 70's their really full sound with normal (stock) Fender pups and proper gear. Gilmour started later on using EMG SAs and currently he uses a regular "Woodstock" set from Kinman. Some of my strats have Kinman regular output pups (AVn 56), with very vintage sound, and I can get the heaviest drive out of them, when connected to a proper setup. It just simply requires a decent mid boost and some treble roll off on the relevant settings/presets.
It would be nice to hear what is your setup (stomps / 19''s / amp / cab). Anyway, I have the Hot noiseless too, and they sound brillant either clean or driven. They have ceamic field, though, which means they don't sound (especially when driven) too vintage.
Last not least, I don't think the original std MIM single coils are ceramic. They are probably Alnicos...

[cdw2000]

My setup is guite variable, I've been doing a lot of experimentation. I have a pedal setup with a TS-9 (modded to TS-808 plus some Keeley mods) and/or DS1 (with Keeley "Seeing-Eye" mod) or Big Muff DIY clone into a Peavey Envoy 110. This is actually my best sounding setup.

I also have a Behringer V-Amp, which is a digital amp simulator like a POD. My Epiphone Les Paul sounds great through either setup, the Strat with the VN's sounds OK through the pedal chain, and not OK through the V-Amp. I want to be able to use the V-Amp when practicing through headphones.

In early Genesis tunes, Steve Hacket often used an LP, but later Mike Rutherford has been using a strat (with EMG active pickups, I read somewhere).

The Texas Specials were almost there but a little too biting. I think I went the wrong direction with the VN's though.

The stock pickups are definately ceramic - you can see the large ceramic bars on the back which contact the steel pole pieces. I did try these last night, and even though they did sound good distrorted, I didn't like them clean at all. They had no definition. I put the VN's back in.

[jpap]

I cannot imagine that the VNs do not sound OK through the Vamp. I had the Vamp for years (also the 2nd version), and, although I have Marshalls, etc., it was my gigging's gear core for quite long time (!) I used my strat (equipped then with regular DiMarzios HS-3 - similar to the VNs) and got amazing sounds out of it live (through a Marshall power amp and a 1960TV cab). Especially the JCM800, Soldano and Engl simulations are great and very useful for those cranked, sustained sounds. I still use Vamp for practicing, even through headphones it sounds (with any of my guitars) OK. A little hint: I set low presence values (by using the "2nd" button and the treble knob), to avoid harsh soundings.

If you like, anyway, to go to other pup products, the market is real full! I could suggest Kinman ones (mentioned above in the previous answer), I have them all and like them. Chris Kinman has products (all Alnicos!) for almost every taste, either as matched sets or as mixed sets.
Other topics here could help you a lot on similar products (like VanZandts, Duncans, Fenders, etc.)

[cdw2000]

Elsewhere on this forum and other forums, folks have complained the VN's don't sound great distorted, so I should have done my homework before buying them. It seems people either love 'em or hate 'em.

This is one reason I think (my opinion only) Fender came up with a new design (with Bill Lawrence's help) in the Somarium Cobalt Noiseless pickups and replaced the VN's in the current American Deluxe Strat's.

I have a friend who just purchased a strat with the SCNs, so I am going to try to check them out before he sells it again (he decided that he prefers a thicker neck).

Yes the Kinman's are probably great, but they are out of my price range. Being a couch player only, it's been hard enough getting past my wife with the gear I have.

[jpap]

Maybe you could take a look on some alternatives to the VNs price range, like the DiMarzio Virtual Vintage series or the HS series. They are not that expensive as the Kinmans.

[cdw2000]

Well, I went to a friend's house and played his new Deluxe Ash Cherry Burst Strat he just got off e-bay. I really, really like the SCN pickups and the S1 switching. Turns out he wants to sell the guitar, the neck is not thick enough for his tastes.

So I'm buying it!

[lightseeker55]

You can adjust the height of the pickup if is lacking thickness. Bill Lawrence pickups are much more sensitive then any Dimarzio and Seymour Duncans I heard. I have a genuine Bill Lawrence L500L on my Epi Les Paul Std and love them. I also replacing my Dimarzio Evo pickup on my Fender Heavy Metal Strat with a L500XL. It just arrived this week. Eventually, I will replace the single coils with a L280 on the neck and a L200 on the middle. You cannot go wrong with Bill Lawrence especially the price. The single coils cost between $40.00 and $48.00 each(depending what you get) and humbuckers cost $50.00 each. The only drawback is you have to wait 4 - 6 weeks because they are not mass produce. They make the pickup when you order and pay for it via paypal. But the wait is all worth it.

[cdw2000]

Well, I bought the guitar and I'm loving it. It's a 2005 Fender Deluxe Ash Cherry Burst. The ash body is gorgeous and really adds life to the sound. The SCN's rock! And the S1 switching is great. It's like getting a Strat with the vintage sound and the modern sound all in one. Bill Lawrence knows his stuff for sure.

[Leocaster]

Elsewhere on this forum and other forums, folks have complained the VN's don't sound great distorted, so I should have done my homework before buying them. It seems people either love 'em or hate 'em.

This is one reason I think (my opinion only) Fender came up with a new design (with Bill Lawrence's help) in the Somarium Cobalt Noiseless pickups and replaced the VN's in the current American Deluxe Strat's.

I have a friend who just purchased a strat with the SCNs, so I am going to try to check them out before he sells it again (he decided that he prefers a thicker neck).

Yes the Kinman's are probably great, but they are out of my price range. Being a couch player only, it's been hard enough getting past my wife with the gear I have.

Dont tell her! From what I have read and about to find out for myself (my guitar is finally ready with kinmans installed ,will pickup from the shop on 4/22) the kinmans are worth it. If not get some good seymours but they are really not that much less. Take that chance! So what if you sleep on the couch for a couple of nights ; you said you are a couch player right?

[Jonnda]

What about Bill Lawrence noiseless single coils? Are they any good?

[cdw2000]

The SCN's were designed by Bill Lawrence for Fender, so by getting the new guitar I essentially got Bill Lawrence noiseless (only mass-produced).

[Plugger]

Check out some of the GFS sets. For chump change, they are getting rave reviews from people on this board who've tried them. In your position , I'd try one or two different sets of these before I'd consider anything truly boutique. (And by "truly boutique", I'm not talking about sound quality, I'm talking about price tag...)

http://stores.ebay.com/Guitarfetish-Store

-Mark

[lightseeker55]

You can purchase Bill Lawrence noiseless pickups at www.billlawrence.com. Beware of fake Bill Lawrence pickups from ebay or any other retail stores that carry them. They sound thin and harsh. You can only buy them online.

[lightseeker55]

Yes, Bill Lawrence pups are that good. Plus the price is right.

[lightseeker55]

Here is a history on the SCN pickups.
http://www.billlawrence.com/Pages/SCNHistory.htm

[cdw2000]

Yeah I had read all about the SCNs and actually ordered a set after I tried out my friend's 2005 Deluxe two Friday's ago. He told me he was going to sell it, but I was still thinking of upgrading my own MIM Strat.

Anyway all thought about that guitar all that weekend, but in the meantime I had purchased a set of the SCNs from an e-bay seller.

When I got home from work on Tuesday I found an e-mail from the e-bay store I had bought the new set of SCNs from. He had opened the package to inspect prior to shipping, and found that the factory never soldered the leads onto them, so he was offering me the option to wait for another set from the factory or to cancel my order.

I took this as an omen and canceled the order, then bought my friends guitar!

So my pickup search ended with a whole new guitar. I handed down my MIM strat to my daughter who is a beginner, so that one is at least staying in the family :-)

[Gris]

I listened to my amp tech milk a killer Pink Floyd solo out of his homemade strat clone with Van Zandt's night befo last (no pedals just straight into a BF Deluxe), but that tone may have just been coming from his fingers... Seriously, I plinked around on it too and was amazed at how good those PUs sounded clean, as well as driven. FWIW, he had em pretty much screwed down to the pickguard.

[stratcat62]

Just a word about SCN's. As in any pup, they are not for everyone. I have a 2004 Am. Deluxe which came stock with them. I played that guitar for 1 year and found the SCN's just did not deliver vintage single coil tone. They are good pups and very versatile, just not for me. They did, however, convert me to noiseless and I ended up with Kinman's in two of three strats (the 3rd strat is a 62 that doesn't leave my music room anymore).

Reading reviews of any pup and you will quickly find out that some players love em' while others hate em'. Same as guitars, amps etc. If you're at all like me, your sound is in a constant state of flux. I've been on a life long search for tone since 1964 and while I'm happy at the moment I know at some point I'll modify my main rig. My final point, as has been said many times here, the most important aspect of tone is the player.

[cdw2000]

Stratcat62, you are absolutely right - the SCN's are probably not the pickup for someone who is seeking an authentic "vintage tone".

As others have pointed out, for vintage tone, people would do well with Fender CS '54s if they want single coils, and the Kinman's for noiseless types.

In my opinion the SCN's are perfect for the style of music I like to play and I like the versatility of the S1 switch system. The SCNs sound very good clean, but they just don't quite achieve that sparkle the vintage tone seekers are looking for. The SCN's really shine when overdriven though, producing a very smooth distorted sound through my TS9 or modified DS1 with excellent sustain. Of course, the ash body on my new deluxe probably helps as well.

[vibroluxan]

If price is the main obstacle to getting Kinmans, you might want to watch for some on eBay, sometimes you can even see the "no solder harness" sets with his special wiring.

[lightseeker55]

If the Bill Lawrence Noiseless or SCN pups are out of your price range, Bill sells his Keystone pups through eBay from a distributor. They are true single coils and I have them on my MIJ Squier Strat. They make the Texas Specials sound like ass. It is way smoother and more dymanic. The surprise is the middle pickup. It is the best middle pickup I have ever heard. They sound great clean and overdriven and response to your picking attack. They are priced at $74.00 for the full set. Here is the website, http://cgi.ebay.com/New-KeyStone-Sin...Bill-Lawrence_
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