intonation problem

[1charger69]

this is driving me nuts - i set the intonation on the other strings no problem however the damn G string is reading flat at the 12th fret harmonic. i moved the saddle up as far as it will go--its touching the bridge pivit screws and its still reading 5 cents flat what going on here? it a vintage style trem. HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

regards J

[Marcondo]

Always use brand new strings when intonating.

Lower your neck pickup a couple turns the raised g polepiece might be too high and thats throwing off the strings real true tone.

[Wilko]

You can move the saddle all you want but you can't change the harmonic note in relation to the open string. Is that what you're doing?

Fret the note and see what you get. Set the height first.

[1charger69]

using a tuner - the harmonic at the 12 th fret should flaten or sharpen in relation to the distance between the saddle and the nut. if the harmonic is flat then you are suppose to move the saddle toward the neck and vise versa. works on all other strings except the G. i am going to try lowering the neck pup to see if the magnet has any effect on it.

THX J

[chaz498]

if the harmonic is flat

In relation to what? The open string, the 12th fretted note??

[1charger69]

yes the 12th frettid note

[Motojunkie]

For intonation, I use the instructions that Peterson recommends with their tuners, and it works great. Maybe you should give it a try.

Here's the instructions from the manual. Some of the instructions are tuner specific, just use a similar function on whatever tuner you are using.

After deciding on string gauge, string height setting (nut and bridge), and neck
relief—factors that affect guitar or bass intonation considerably—the individual
string lengths must be adjusted.
• Lower the pickups away from the strings to avoid "doubling" and
electromagnetic pull.
• Lay the instrument flat on a bench to adjust it, but always check the
intonation with the instrument in the playing position as the readings will
be visibly (and later audibly) different. You should always aim to freeze or
"cage" the image of the VS-II strobe display; the less overall movement up
or down, the more accurate the results.
• Always slacken the string while adjusting the saddle position. Failing to
do so may damage the string, the saddle, or in some cases, even the neck!
• Apply some graphite to the nut slots. This helps prevent the string from
binding.
As previously stated, "action" is another important factor influencing correct fretting
(intonation). The higher the action, the further the string must be depressed to
contact the fret. As this happens, greater pressure is exerted on the string resulting
in an increase in pitch.
A high action may cause sharp notes; a low action may cause fret buzz. Action
adjustments can be made at the nut, saddle, or in extreme cases, by resetting the
neck. (On a banjo, coordinator rods or dowel sticks can be adjusted for proper
action.)
A common method for setting intonation is to compare the 12th fret (pressed) and
12th fret flageolet (harmonic):
• If the fretted note is flat compared to the flageolet note, move the bridge
saddle forward to shorten the string.
• If the fretted note is sharp compared to the flageolet note, move the bridge
saddle back to lengthen the string.
• Adjust until both fretted note and and flageolet are identical in pitch.
While this is a common technique, it is not always the most satisfactory. Another
popular alternative is to adjust each string so that it is in tune at two points an octave
apart from each other on the fretboard with a strobe tuner. Using the 5th and 17th
fret as an example:
24
• Tune a string at the 5th fret.
• Check the string at the 17th fret. If sharp, move the saddle back to lengthen
the string. If flat, shorten the string by moving the saddle forward.
Remember to fret the string using the pressure that you would normally
apply while playing!
• Repeat this process until each string is in tune as much as possible at both
the 5th and 17th frets.
This method takes time and must be repeated if you change string gauges but, if
properly executed, yields very satisfactory results.

[Wilko]

The pitch terms are relative and should be used properly to describe what you are doing. Example "harmonic is flat". If the harmonic is flat, tune the string up. If the fretted note is sharp (harmonic flat) you need to move the saddle AWAY from the nut. Move it back to lower the fretted note. If you are hitting the pivot screws you are going the wrong way.

A bent string will always play out of tune. See that lng list of instructions about loosening the string before moving the saddle.
Seems to me that it would play flat with that bent/slack area by the saddle. Maybe that's all it is.

[Marcondo]

From all the guitars I have worked on when you have to move the saddle all over the place and its still not close to intune its not the saddle but its the string. Also be sure you have enough winds on the post to create enough downpressure on the nut.

I would remove all strings while they are off treat the fretboard if its rosewood and clean the frets. Set the small e saddle at 25.5 inches from the nut and rough eyeball the others usually just making each larger string a little farther back.

I do all my intonation starting at the 5th fret this eliminates any error caused by the nut. I use a capo at the 5th fret and do all measurments from there and at the 17th fret.

[alanfc]

...................

I do all my intonation starting at the 5th fret this eliminates any error caused by the nut. I use a capo at the 5th fret and do all measurments from there and at the 17th fret.

hi, so do we place the capo right at the near edge of the fret (near meaning in the direction of the bridge) or,

in the exact middle of the 4th and 5th, like ON the dot ?

and, do we take the capo off each time we need to make a saddle adjustment forward or back?

thanks

[Wilko]

No capo. Just fret a note on the 5th fret. Compare it to 17th. Should be 1 octave apart.

[Don]

I don't use harmonics at all when intonating or tuning guitars.
I use the open string and the 12th fret.
I'll sometimes compare the 5th and 17th.
But I never use harmonics.

[D'Mule]

I don't use harmonics at all when intonating or tuning guitars.
I use the open string and the 12th fret.
I'll sometimes compare the 5th and 17th.
But I never use harmonics.

I like to use the harmonic for a quick check of intonation by ear. Once the intonation goes bad, I figure I'm needing new strings.

If you are using an electronic tuner to set up intonation for the first time, I don't think it matters.

[alanfc]

Ok thanks

[Camoradi]

I never use harmonics except for a back to back double check. I fret the string at the 12th fret and try to use the same pressure I use when playing a note. Doing it that way takes into account, to some extent, fret height and playing style.