What size is "medium jumbo?"

[Sage]

Anybody know what the actual size of Fender's "medium jumbo" frets are? I'm looking to get a replacement neck made for my strat, and I've found I love the feel of Fender's medium jumbo frets, but I don't know how to translate that to the dimensions used by Warmoth or any other aftermarket neck maker... Warmoth refers to Dunlop 6130 as being "medium jumbo," but those seem awfully low...

Does anybody know what the actual width x height measurements are? Maybe there's some helpful dude out there with a modern Fender neck and a micrometer...

[Don]

The frets (the unused bass side of the 22nd fret) on my '95 AM. Std. Tele are .048" tall by .103" wide.

The frets on my new Hwy 1 Strat are .043" tall by .105" wide.

I believe they're both supposed to be medium-jumbo.

I can really feel the difference. I like the taller frets better. The frets on my USACG T-Style are .055" tall and the frets on my ES-135 are .059" tall. Once you get used to tall frets it's hard to go back!

[tenebrae]

Interesting....those specs seem more like the old 6150 fretwire, which is more than a medium jumbo, more like a smallish jumbo....6100 wire is a true jumbo wire and 6000 is plain monstrous. Don, you're a madman on that fret height...love it! That's tall timber alright :yay; that ES-135 is getting into 6000 territory there. I use a 6100 Dunlop wire which is .11"x.055" and it's the bee's knees as far as I'm concerned.

Tenebrae

[Sage]

I've been using 6150, and it's okay, but a little too tall. I played a Fender American Deluxe HSS the other day and was blown away by the neck, so I'm looking to duplicate that. My fear is that 6130 is going to be too short, but I really can't tell. I may have to take a micrometer into the guitar shop and see what I can see.

Maybe Don is including the part of the fretwire that's wedged into the fretboard slots?

[tenebrae]

What about a 6160? .106"x.039"...I reckon that's the fretwire for you. Falls between a 6130 and a 6150 in terms of height. Dunlop has it and I've always found Dunlop to be first rate.

Tenebrae

PS: love the micrometer idea! Do it, man.

[Don]

Maybe Don is including the part of the fretwire that's wedged into the fretboard slots?

No. I measured the crown of the fret above the fretboard with a digital caliper at the highest 2 frets so the caliper would bridge across the frets giving me a relatively accurate measurement.

I like tall frets.

[Sage]

I've been using 6150, and it's okay, but a little too tall.

Whoops, I meant 6105.

Here's something interesting... Dunlop's chart doesn't match Warmoth's measurements. According to Dunlop, the 6105 is .055" tall, but Warmoth says .047" -- who's right? Maybe the 6150 is what I want after all...

[Sage]

No. I measured the crown of the fret above the fretboard with a digital caliper at the highest 2 frets so the caliper would bridge across the frets giving me a relatively accurate measurement.

I like tall frets.

Thanks for the clarification, Don. Hey, maybe you can help resolve this. Do you know what fretwire you had installed on your USACG T-style? If it's .055" tall, and you got the 6105, then we know Dunlop's chart is the accurate one.

[LesPauloholic]

I've got 6105 wire on two of my necks. I've been very happy with it. it's tall but not too wide.

[Don]

Thanks for the clarification, Don. Hey, maybe you can help resolve this. Do you know what fretwire you had installed on your USACG T-style? If it's .055" tall, and you got the 6105, then we know Dunlop's chart is the accurate one.

I asked Tommy for 6105 fretas and they measure .055" x .095". They've never been dressed. They didn't need to be.

[Sage]

I asked Tommy for 6105 fretas and they measure .055" x .095". They've never been dressed. They didn't need to be.

Thanks, Don! This makes so much more sense. I've got 6105 on my current neck and they're too tall for my tastes. Sounds like Warmoth's measurements are wrong. What I probably want is 6150, according to Dunlop's chart it's pretty close to the dimensions of your HWY 1 strat.

[Sage]

Well, I called up Warmoth and asked about the difference between their measurements and Dunlop's. It turns out that Warmoth doesn't actually use Dunlop fretwire. According to the person I spoke with, the dimensions listed on Warmoth's site are correct for the wire they use. The Dunlop numbers are just for general reference.

So my frets should in fact be .047" high. I may have to sneak a caliper into the guitar center. I really liked the neck on that deluxe HSS strat, but I hated just about everything else about it.

[Sage]

Curiouser and curiouser. USA Custom guitars doesn't use actual Dunlop fretwire, either. They apparently have a fretwire supplier from Germany.

[Don]

These fret size discrepencies have been discussed on other forums.
I'd take my caliper to guitar center if I were you.

[soapbarstrat]

You could do a real "poor man's version" of fret height measuring, by fretting a string at the higher frets, then using short pieces of guitar string as "feeler gauges" under the fretted string. You'd need the "feeler gauge" strings marked, otherwise things would get really confusing fast.

I imagine a pair of calipers could scare the hell out of the average GC salesperson.

I think of .090" to .095" wide, by .045" to .050" as medium jumbo.

That German fret-wire company is probably going to put Dunlop out of business.

Here's some from the last batch I bought straight from Dunlop (it's 6105), just as it came from them (it was pitted just like that, when I first got it)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...lop_6105_3.jpg

Here's the same size wire from that German company :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...German6105.jpg

[Sage]

Ouch, that's a pretty clear difference. Do you think that's a manufacturing defect or did something happen during shipping?

I'm not loyal to any particular brand of fretwire -- my main concern is that the measurements are accurate. I played a bunch of strats in GC to figure out what kind of neck I preferred, and the American Deluxe HSS strat won hands down. I'd just buy that guitar, except I really disliked everything else about it -- the pickups, the electronics, the rolling nut, the bridge, even the looks (black with a plastic gold pickguard?!). So the trick is to recreate the feel of that neck with the features I want. Fret size, thickness and taper are what I need to figure out. The latter two should be standard across models, but fret size may not be, if Fender uses more than one supplier.

If anyody else out there has a Fender Strat (not a clone) with "medium jumbo" frets, and can give me measurements, I'd love to hear from you -- it'd give me an idea of how much variance there is in Fender's fretwire.

As for measuring that Deluxe... first I need a digital caliper, then I need to figure out how to get it into GC, and then... well, an accurate way to measure the frets without removing the strings. Don, how did you swing that?

[Don]

I measure the height of the fret's crown using the depth gage on the end of the caliper. I put the end of the caliper over 2 frets in the upper register so that the caliper is perpendicular to the fretboard.
Keep in mind that the thickness of the finish on a maple neck decrases the measurement.

I measure the width of the frets with the jaw of the caliper. Build up of finish on the sides of the frets increases this measurement.

There's no need to remove the strings.

[Don]

You could alway make a negative impression of the fret in a small pice of plasticine modelling clay and measure it carefully at home.

[Wilko]

The width won't matter all that much in the feel, the height will. Frets will alwys be a tad shorter after install and levelling.

Get some tall frets and shave 'em till they feel good ;)

[Sage]

You could alway make a negative impression of the fret in a small pice of plasticine modelling clay and measure it carefully at home.

Yes, but that would make too much sense.

Seriously, thank you, that's a GREAT idea...

[soapbarstrat]

Ouch, that's a pretty clear difference. Do you think that's a manufacturing defect or did something happen during shipping?

Happened at the factory. The wire is shipped in heavy-duty thick cardboard tubes, which I always keep it in (which is kind of a joke, considering how beaten up the wire looks).
Dunlop wire I had bought years before wasn't that bad, but Dunlop wire , especially the 6105 size, has a reputation for the height variation going up and down as much as .003", even within a single 2 foot piece.

The funniest part is that when I bought that wire, Dunlop asked me if I wanted to be a Dunlop dealer. HAHA !

I read an article somewhere, that said as the machines that make the fret-wire get older, (particularly the dies/rollers that the wire is drawn through) they get worn to the point where the size of the wire varies more and more, and the part that I really didn't like, was that this article even said that fret-wire makers have even used a softer fret-wire metal to compensate for this, so the worn equipment could still be used to make fret-wire.

One thing about that German fret-wire company, is that their equipment was made for making stainless steel fret-wire, so I guess it can certainly handle making regular fret-wire for a long time.

[Sage]

Now HERE we go... Official specs posted by Fender:

Here's the specs from our Custom Shop Master Dealer display book:

Fretwire/Crown Height/Crown Width

Fender U.S.Vintage/.039"(0.99mm)/.084"(2.14mm)
Dunlop 6230 /.043"(1.09mm)/.078"(2.03mm
Fender Am. Stand. /.046"(1.17mm)/.103"(2.62mm)
Dunlop 6105 /.055"(1.40mm)/.090"(2.29mm)
Dunlop 6100 /.055"(1.40mm)/.110"(2.79mm)
Dunlop 6000 /.058"(1.47mm)/.118"(3.00m)

So Fender's "medium jumbo" (American Standard) fretwire is the exact same dimensions as Warmoth's version of 6150. It's also the same dimensions as Dunlop's 6155; however, 6155 is 18% n/s soft rather than hard. Not sure how much of a difference that makes.

Interestingly, it's almost exactly the same height as Warmoth's version of 6105 on my neck. I suspect the difference in feel can be attributed to the fact that the frets on the neck I played at the store had been leveled. So it is likely that I really just want something the same dimensions as Dunlop 6150.

Now if I can just figure out thickness and taper...

[soapbarstrat]

Thanks for posting that. I've been wondering for a few years now what size wire is on the JV necks, and I guess I now finally know. (looked at the link, and saw the JV part mentioned)