I NEED SERIOUS HELP/PICKUPS

[62strat]

I'm currently playing a '62 American Vintage Fender Strat which comes stock with Fender '57/'62 pickups. Which have a great Fender Vintage Tone but don't pack much growl. I'm currently playing a Stevie Ray Vaughan type blues so I'm tryin to get that SRV Tone. The problem I'm having is that the pickups I have aren't getting as gritty as I would like my tone to be, I have a set of Texas Specials that I bought for a Mexi. Strat that I used to have That are just setting around not being used now, so I guess my question is DO YOU THINK THAT THE TEXAS SPECIALS WOULD BE BETTER? I know that the Texas Specials are supposed to be the pickup for this style of music espicially since fender puts them in the Stevie Ray VaughanSignature Strat but I have read alot of Reviews that kinda say otherwise. Most of what I have read about the Texas Specials say they are to "muddy" and have "way to much mid for SRV Tone". Does anyone here have any experience with Texas Specials? I bought them but never put them in my Mexi Strat because I sold it right after I got the pickups adn that is when I bought my '62 Re-Issue.

I'm not really interested in buying anymore pickups right now, so i want to either stick with the '57/'62's that are already in my guitar or switch to the Texas Specials. I don'thave the money to buy the nice boutique pickups like the Van Zandt Rocks, or The Lindy Fralin Blues.

I play through a Fender Hot Rod Deville 4x10, A Ibanex Tube Screamer, and a Vox Wah, adn the '62 Strat.

Any help is greatly appreicated.......

[fezz parka]

Welcome to the forum.

How do you have the 57/62 set as far as height goes?

[cooltone]

I love my TS strat pups...IMO, they're worth a try. But, like Fezz says about your other pups...the 'sweet spot' can be found by tweaking the height.

[fezz parka]

I love my TS strat pups...IMO, they're worth a try.

You make 'em sound great, man!

For what it's worth, a lot of the SRV sound has to to do more with how you play than what you play. My :2c

[Offshore Angler]

Plus, the stock Tubescreamer isn't very SRVish. You'll need to do the Keeley mods to it to get more saturation. That could be a big part of the problem. Next, the HotRod is pretty top-endy, so that with the stock TS9 would be a bit on the "ungrowly" side too.

I'd say the guitar is probaby closer than you think, but the amp not exactly what you want to hear. In other words, if you changed to a Vibroverb and kept the stock pups you might end up closer than changing to the Texas Specials and playing through your current rig.

YMMV, but that' s my $0.02.

[Strat-Mangler]

Welcome to the forum!

I too play SRV-type Blues and can definitely tell you that despite the fact that the 57/62s are very chimey, they just are not for that type of music. They don't have much growl if any at all, IMHO. It's more of a Lenny type of tone than a Voodoo Chile type of tone that you can get from those pickups.

For the SRV growl that you're looking for, the ones that *really* had it were the Seymour Duncan Antiquities. I heard that the Van Zandt Blues came real close as well, but I have only had experience with the SD pickups. The neck and middle pickups were *it*! Only problem is that they're relatively rare and expensive. But if you have the patience and the money, you'll get a good winner.

The TS, IMHO, are horrible pickups. I know a lot of people here love them and more power to you guys if you happen to have them in your #1 Strat, but I just can't personally stand them. I find them thin, brittle, and very irritating to the ear. That's of course, my own opinion and as such, you might still be happy with them.

Personally, getting a satisfying tone goes a long way towards making you motivated to play and play a lot, so I'd simply sell both sets of pickups and buy one that makes your guitar sing the way you want her to sing.

IMHO, YMMV, etc... all the usual disclaimers.

[Strat-Mangler]

Plus, the stock Tubescreamer isn't very SRVish. You'll need to do the Keeley mods to it to get more saturation. That could be a big part of the problem. Next, the HotRod is pretty top-endy, so that with the stock TS9 would be a bit on the "ungrowly" side too.

I'd say the guitar is probaby closer than you think, but the amp not exactly what you want to hear. In other words, if you changed to a Vibroverb and kept the stock pups you might end up closer than changing to the Texas Specials and playing through your current rig.

YMMV, but that' s my $0.02.

I'll have to disagree as I had the exact same setup (minus an actual 62 Strat) and it sounded very SRV-ish with the SD pickups. No need to mod anything.

[melody]

[QUOTE=Strat-Mangler]Welcome to the forum!

I too play SRV-type Blues and can definitely tell you that despite the fact that the 57/62s are very chimey, they just are not for that type of music. They don't have much growl if any at all, IMHO. It's more of a Lenny type of tone than a Voodoo Chile type of tone that you can get from those pickups.

QUOTE]

I respecfully disagree!


My strat sounds great with the 57\62,s ..Lots o SRV tones with those babys not even tring to get his vibe too burnt on his stuff..I beleave its the amp and pedal..And as Fezz pointed out its the way you play the axe not so much the pups..

[Strat-Mangler]

I guess you should re-read my quote. I never said they don't have SRV tones. Just not the growl that the original poster wants. They sound good, but very chimey and bell-like. Not much growl, if any at all.

[62strat]

So I guess I'm still kinda wondering what the overall concensis was? should I put the Texas Specials in or leave the '57/'62's in?
Damn It I just can't spend anymore money right now. Boutique gear is killing me.....

[Strat-Mangler]

If you know how to solder, why not take some of your time and slap the TS in your Strat? The worst that can happen is that you won't like them and you'll temporarily need to swap them back out in favor of the 57/62s.

All the opinions in the world won't mean shit if *you* don't happen to agree with them.

[melody]

I guess you should re-read my quote. I never said they don't have SRV tones. Just not the growl that the original poster wants. They sound good, but very chimey and bell-like. Not much growl, if any at all.

I read your post..and did re-read..Maybe you should re-read mine and the post Fezz pointed out its the aggrestion of the player not so much the pups..

[Offshore Angler]

I'm gonna stand pat on my answer. When I hear SRV, I hear saturation, power tubes clipping, and speaker breakup. His guitar IS chimey (it was a vintage piece!) but the mids are scooped or the bottom expanded.

SRV also was pretty reverby, and the solid state reverb on the HRD is always going to miss the smooth bottom of a spring/tube unit. And the 4-10 HRD has always had an earlier breakup.

The HRD 4-10 is a good sounding amp. It cuts like a knife and gives great overdriven tones, just not in the SRV tradition. My limited experience with them makes me believe they are very mid-rangy. And that's not a bad thing in general. Mids are where the "cut" comes from. But SRV used a wall of volume, and not mids! SRV was one of the loudest players of the day. He got his oomph from power tubes.

Then the other most important aspect of the SRV sound is the tuning. SRV tuned down which definately takes some of the sparkle out. Then he used fat strings and a high action to get away from the rubber band effect of the low tuning.

I'm still willing to bet that if the 62 in question was tuned down and had, say, 11's on it, and was plugged into a cranked Vibroverb it would sound pretty danged SRVish. More so than just changing the pups and keeping everything else the same.

Of course, opinions are like you-know-whats.

OSA

[jim in texas]

Howdy 62strat and welcome.....

How's your guitar setup?

Some of Stevie's tone came from the higher action, big strings tuned down, speed bump frets and his string raking technique.

I think if you can get his mechanics down then the rest will be easy choices for you.

What I remember most about Stevie, at least the times I saw him in his younger days in the Sixth Street bars, was his volume.

Amazing things happen when you turn it up and that boy was turned up.

[Strat-Mangler]

I read your post..and did re-read..Maybe you should re-read mine and the post Fezz pointed out its the aggrestion of the player not so much the pups..

Yes, I do understand. But have *you* had any experience with the SD pickups? I know I do. Without sounding arrogant, I do sound very much sound like SRV when I play and despite the attack, etc... the SD have growl in spades, whereas the 57/62 do not. It doesn't make it a bad pickup, just different-sounding. They just weren't designed for growl. No matter how you eat it, sugar is sweet, not sour.

This all comes back to the "tone is in the hands" argument. Yes, it is. BUT,... having said that, despite that fact, the equipment you use will direct you, tone-wise, towards this or that territory. You can't tell me that the Lace Sensor pickups and the Fender Texas Specials sound the same. That's just impossible. The TS will give you more of an edge, especially mid-wise. That's a fact. And again, by the same token, the SD have more growl. No matter how aggressive you play, nobody will make the Lace Sensor sound SRV-like.

No offense, but why ignore a product you never even tested? You're trying to tell me that compared to two products, only one of which you tested, that the sole one you tested has what the original poster needs when he's obviously not happy with it. Moreover, in another thread the poster started, he states that he "has the hands" just not happy with the pickups. A good salesman will give the customer what he/she wants, not what the salesman uses/owns.

Trust me. I have tested the SD Antiquities for quite a long time and can definitely attest to the fact that they have *tons* more growl. The 57/62 just sound incredibly tame compared to the SD. That is not just my opinion, but the same opinion of another bunch of people who have gone through the same steps. You can stay with your opinion if you wish. That's fine. I'm here to tell you that although the 57/62s are good pickups for what they are, they don't growl. Period. Not compared to other some other pickups, they don't. If you don't believe me, I'd suggest ordering a set of SD. You'll see what I'm talking about, but right now, me telling you about the SD is like trying to tell a person with a cold about how a soup he's never tested is supposed to taste like.

Any big fan of SRV will be able to tell you that despite SRV's playing, the sound he got from different guitars was exactly that... different. The sound ge got from Charley was chimey. The sound he got from #1 was growly. The sound he got from Lenny was smoky. Etc...

[Strat-Mangler]

Of course, opinions are like you-know-whats.

Of course and I agree with that. However, you can decide to go for whichever type of SRV tone you wish. There is no single "SRV tone" just like there is just a single "Hendrix tone." SRV used dozens of different tones and very different equipment from album to album. Heck, the In Step album has a lot of different amps on it, too.

From the original poster's request, I gathered that he wanted to sound more like SRV's #1 than his Lenny. 2 completely different sounds.

The HR amps are midrangy, you're right. Cutting the mids is what I had to do to sound more SRV-ish. With the right equipment, that 62 Strat of his *will* growl more than usual.

62strat seems to be a pretty big SRV fan. Any big SRV fan will know that he tuned down and used big strings. It's safe to assume he's already using that setup.

For the record, I used the SD Antiquities first, then I switched to the 57/62s. Nothing else was changed and the difference was *huge* and to me, for the sound I was particularly hunting, the difference was not a positive one. I liked the growl and lost it all when I switched and regretted it ever since. I got myself a pair of Kinman Traditional MKIIs. I'll be putting those to the test real soon and report back.

But if they don't have "it" (whatever "it" really is), I'll try to hunt down some SD Antiquities once again. It won't be easy, but worth it. I'm holding out before I put the MKIIs through their paces, though. I'm kind of hoping I'll be able to have my cake and eat it too ; growl *and* chimey *and* noiseless. We'll see. I'm the harshest critic regarding sound you'll ever know, but if these can impress me, I'll definitely stick to them. :)

[sabby]

No matter how you eat it, sugar is sweet, not sour.

But have you tried sugar though some really cooking power tubes? It carmelizes and then gets a bit woody and sour.

[Strat-Mangler]

:lol

Well,... yes... I have. :)

I cranked my amp to 6 and even then, not as growly. It did help, but I was easily able to get a lot of growl at bedroom volume with the SDs.

[GuitarG]

FWIW, I using the recent 57/62's in my '83ish '57 RI. I am the original owner of the guitar and have played it on almost every gig I've done since I purchased it. I have had dozens of sets of pickups in the guitar over the years. A couple of years ago I went to buy a set of Fralins for it and the guitar tech suggested the new 57/62's. I said "what do I want those for? That's what I started with 20 years ago." He explained that the new ones with beveled magnets were different and for $90 a set I should give them a shot. And they've been in ever since. I have them set low, the neck pickup is even with the guard, and they deliver everything I need from a Strat and in spades.
I love Fralins, I use them in other guitars, and have heard great things about the Antiquity Strat pickups. (The Antiquity may be the only Duncan strat pup that I haven't used in this guitar ;)) But the 57/62's work for me and I am definitely playing pumped up blues with them.
To tell you the truth, I'm don't think I want my Strat pickups to 'growl'. I add any growl I want from the amp or OD. I want my pickups to transmit how the wood and strings respond to the type of attack I give any given note at any time.
I am a tinkerer by nature and I use 'bootiquey' pickups in most of my electrics. I'm proud that I'm able to be so happy with a stock Fender product.

[sabby]

:lol

Well,... yes... I have. :)

I cranked my amp to 6 and even then, not as growly. It did help, but I was easily able to get a lot of growl at bedroom volume with the SDs.

Turn it to 10, my friend. Not 7. Not 8. Ten, I said!!! Strange and wonderous things happen between 8 and 10 -- which is why I play a 15 watt amp. ;)

To tell you the truth, I'm don't think I want my Strat pickups to 'growl'. I add any growl I want from the amp or OD. I want my pickups to transmit how the wood and strings respond to the type of attack I give any given note at any time.

Now that's the stuff!

[melody]

Yes, I do understand. But have *you* had any experience with the SD pickups? I know I do. Without sounding arrogant, I do sound very much sound like SRV when I play and despite the attack, etc... the SD have growl in spades, whereas the 57/62 do not. It doesn't make it a bad pickup, just different-sounding. They just weren't designed for growl. No matter how you eat it, sugar is sweet, not sour.

This all comes back to the "tone is in the hands" argument. Yes, it is. BUT,... having said that, despite that fact, the equipment you use will direct you, tone-wise, towards this or that territory. You can't tell me that the Lace Sensor pickups and the Fender Texas Specials sound the same. That's just impossible. The TS will give you more of an edge, especially mid-wise. That's a fact. And again, by the same token, the SD have more growl. No matter how aggressive you play, nobody will make the Lace Sensor sound SRV-like.

No offense, but why ignore a product you never even tested? You're trying to tell me that compared to two products, only one of which you tested, that the sole one you tested has what the original poster needs when he's obviously not happy with it. Moreover, in another thread the poster started, he states that he "has the hands" just not happy with the pickups. A good salesman will give the customer what he/she wants, not what the salesman uses/owns.

Trust me. I have tested the SD Antiquities for quite a long time and can definitely attest to the fact that they have *tons* more growl. The 57/62 just sound incredibly tame compared to the SD. That is not just my opinion, but the same opinion of another bunch of people who have gone through the same steps. You can stay with your opinion if you wish. That's fine. I'm here to tell you that although the 57/62s are good pickups for what they are, they don't growl. Period. Not compared to other some other pickups, they don't. If you don't believe me, I'd suggest ordering a set of SD. You'll see what I'm talking about, but right now, me telling you about the SD is like trying to tell a person with a cold about how a soup he's never tested is supposed to taste like.

Any big fan of SRV will be able to tell you that despite SRV's playing, the sound he got from different guitars was exactly that... different. The sound ge got from Charley was chimey. The sound he got from #1 was growly. The sound he got from Lenny was smoky. Etc...

Sorry for the highjack..Strat- Mangler How in the Hell do *you* know what I've Tested..Dude You make statments bout a pup when i dissagree with you and you get all pissy with me about it..I have in fact played the SD pups you speak of and don't care for them if you like them thats cool with me..If you want too sound like your hero thats fine with me as well I like to sound like me.But please don't come off like your opinion is the only one that holds any water..I though we where talkin bout 57\62 or texas sp..Not SD..Read the last two post my friend..

[Strat-Mangler]

melody, I think you misinterpreted my comments entirely. I never said my opinion was the only one that holds water. But when there's a trend in terms of what people refer to this or that pickup as being, that's a different story. For example, the SD Antiquities are definitely overwound pickups, whereas the 57/62s are not. But that's only been determined after a whole bunch of people tested them out and shared their findings. Otherwise, for all we know, without testing them, we'd think the opposite.

Your last message sealed it for me, melody. The original poster *does* want to sound like his hero, which happens to be SRV as well. If you want to sound like you, that's fine. Just don't recommend a pickup that will accomodate you and not him. That's my only beef. He didn't ask "What pickups will give me glassy highs and make me sound like melody." He asked to sound like SRV with a lot of growl and that's the answer I gave him : the SD Antiquities have exactly that in spades.

The 57/62 will deliver Lenny-type of sounds, though. And I guess it also comes down to the argument I posted previously about SRV not having just one particular sound. However, the Lenny-type of sound is not what 62strat is after. That's why I discouraged him from keeping those as they don't inherently have growl. Moreover, GuitarG also admits if you read between the lines that the 57/62 don't growl. I played with the height, etc... and they just don't growl.

Oh, and I apologize wholeheartedly for assuming your hadn't tested the SD Antiquities. As my English teacher told me, when you assume, you also assume the first three letters of the word...

[Strat-Mangler]

I'm proud that I'm able to be so happy with a stock Fender product.

Whatever makes you happy, man! That's all that matters in the end, doesn't it? By the way, that neck is really cool! Was it reliced or just played and played and played?

[GuitarG]

By the way, that neck is really cool! Was it reliced or just played and played and played?

Just played and played on thousands of gigs.
Actually now that I think about it, I did take some very fine sandpaper to the fingerboard many, many years ago, but the wear you see is from playing.

[fezz parka]

What George said.:yay

Great pic of the Strat, man. Now that's what I call a road warrior. Reliced by playing it.

And once again, for the "debaters" amongst us, some words from Sgt. Hulka are in order:
Hulka Speaks

[Offshore Angler]

:troll

[melody]

melody, I think you misinterpreted my comments entirely. I never said my opinion was the only one that holds water. But when there's a trend in terms of what people refer to this or that pickup as being, that's a different story. For example, the SD Antiquities are definitely overwound pickups, whereas the 57/62s are not. But that's only been determined after a whole bunch of people tested them out and shared their findings. Otherwise, for all we know, without testing them, we'd think the opposite.

Your last message sealed it for me, melody. The original poster *does* want to sound like his hero, which happens to be SRV as well. If you want to sound like you, that's fine. Just don't recommend a pickup that will accomodate you and not him. That's my only beef. He didn't ask "What pickups will give me glassy highs and make me sound like melody." He asked to sound like SRV with a lot of growl and that's the answer I gave him : the SD Antiquities have exactly that in spades.

The 57/62 will deliver Lenny-type of sounds, though. And I guess it also comes down to the argument I posted previously about SRV not having just one particular sound. However, the Lenny-type of sound is not what 62strat is after. That's why I discouraged him from keeping those as they don't inherently have growl. Moreover, GuitarG also admits if you read between the lines that the 57/62 don't growl. I played with the height, etc... and they just don't growl.

Oh, and I apologize wholeheartedly for assuming your hadn't tested the SD Antiquities. As my English teacher told me, when you assume, you also assume the first three letters of the word...

Well i think your missing the point of the amp giving the sound growl..But you want too debate pups sooo..I don't want anybody to sound like me..I could give a rats ass what other people say a pup sounds like I make up my own mind..And yes when we make assumptions we do kinda feal that way when its pointed out to us..



Fezz point taken! :bwa

[Strat-Mangler]

We all have different ears, so consequently, we all hear different things. I still stand by my opinion, as I'm very descriminating, but nevertheless, you're certainly welcome to your opinion as well. It certainly would be cheaper for our friend, 62strat, to stick with the 57/62s, that's for sure. ;)

[62strat]

I LOVE YOU GUYS..... :blbros

[grOOvadelic]

I always read these things too late! Well, I'm a huge SRV fan and like many have mentioned he had a lot of different sounds. One thing for sure No.1 was a very gritty guitar. That's why he switched guitars constantly, they all had a different tone.

That said... it's both the pickups and the amp. You're not going to get that sound out of your amp. The Deville is way to mid-rangey! One thing I'd suggest is the solder a jumper between on the bass and mid tone pots so that you can attenuate some of the mids. The mod is on the web... Also, Stevie didn't use his tube screamer for saturation. He used it as a volume boost to slam the front end of his amps. I'm actually going to go home and try setting my overdrive pedal drive down and level cranked into my HRDeluxe tonight and see how it sounds. Anyway, so his saturation is from a cranked amp... I don't know what he was using but I hear he was using Vibroverbs very early in his career. Vibroverbs don't breakup very easily and from what I've heard and read, he blasted his amps incredibly loud to break up.

Another things is, you're right about the pickups... those pickups are very 60s clean... glassy and clear.... like "Lenny." SRVs pickups have a gritty sound that comes from his pickups breaking up not necessarily his amps. If you listen to his live sound, the "grittiness" doesn't sound like it's from his amps... it sounds like it's coming out of his guitar.

You know there are so many other variables to that tone he had, mainly from his fingers, but - colored by so many other things... This is exactly why I'm not chasing his tone. I can't crank my amp to 10, I don't have the same exact pickups, I would never use 13s... ever, etc... The point is to find an aspect of his tone that you make your own. If the 57/62's don't fit that tone in your head, I'd say try a grittier pickup. I'd recommend the CS Fat 50s pickups - they were designed by Abby Ybarra and Jay Black in the mid 90s and are probably more SRV than the Texas Specials. They're a great blues pickup and have a more aggressive tone than the 57/62's.

[62strat]

GROOVADELIC: The SRV sound I'm going for is the earlier SRV tone like 82-84 Number One Guitar ONLY. I know that he had a ton of different amps and his sound changed everynight and all that, but I also know tht it is possible to get the SRV tone. Everyone says how hard it is and you'll never get it right because it was never the same well I know about 20 people that are pulling off the SRV tone almost flawless, without having a Vibroverb and all of Stevies personal collection of gear.

I'm interested to find out what you came up with when you played around with your HRDeluxe and you tube screamer. Yesterday I changed my string gauge to 12-56's and raised my action and lowered my pickups and this actually made quite a bit of difference. Also just so you know what I'm working with I have a few mod's on my HRDeville it actually sounds more like a Super Reverb then a HRdeville thats why I bought the4x10 not the 2x12 because I know a guy in my home town that can do wonders with amps. Plus and I know alot of people will argue with me on this but most of what you here from Stevie as far as amps go is a Super Reverb people always think Vibroverb because Steive was always talking about his Vibroverbs because that was his Pride and Joy cuz he has consecutive numbered amps that he bought like two years apart but if your listening to EARLY SRV it's mostly SUPER REVERBS that are cutting through.

What do you think about Fender Custom Shop Texas Specials? I have a set that I'm thinking about putting in my '62RI, that is why I started this Thread in the first place. Well Groovadelic I gotta run but if you get a chance e-mail me (scarznstarz@comcast.net)and let me know wht you found out after tinkering with your amp,also I would like to pick your brain about a few other things since your a HUGE SRV FAN TOO......